Moving to a private school - losing the pension

bluejay21

Hi,

I am a regular poster on the forum (different username).

Just looking for some advise from anyone who has gone in a similar direction or knows someone who has.

Current Post Primary teacher - permanent for several years. Am considering moving to a new school but its paid privately (move is based on possible better work life balance due to commute/ subject choice to teach / change of staffroom). I have just recently got the new job offer so its a real decision I have to make shortly. Current pension is not the new single pension.

New school = private school / no pension. Hours would be fairly secure as subject in demand and school numbers are strong. Salary will be higher. PRSA would be set up and paid into by myself. No employer contribution. Expect to be made permanent after few years.

Would I be mad to effectively walk away from the department pension?

Thanks for any advise.

RealJohn

I presume (though I could be wrong) that you’ll still be entitled to a department pension in the end too, just that it will be smaller? Am I wrong about that?

If not, remember that to some extent, you’ll need the better pension less if you stay in the school with the long commute and the staff room you don’t like because the stress will probably kill you quicker.

bluejay21

Thanks RealJohn - that one good way of looking at it for sure. I have heard in the past about people where something similar has happened so worth noting ( ill health and even death very quickly after retiring)

I also remember another colleague talking about the 'golden handcuffs' that some teachers found themselves wearing after 20/25/35 yrs teaching - not able or willing to jump or try something else out - so I guess I have to consider that too.

Yeah I would be entitled to some pension after the service I have -so that combined with the PRSA might be enough - so will consider that too.

2011abc

How long have you left to 33 or 40 years or retirement age ?

bluejay21

A fair way to go still!
About mid way thru teaching career

jimmycrackcorm

You should really evaluate the benefit of the public service pension vs what you'd be able to do in the private sector. It takes hefty contributions to make up the equivalent. On the other hand, many people in the private sector don't have any pension at all, particularly those who work for small companies that don't pay pension contributions.

A lot depends on how long you'd intend to work privately as to what you could gain in a private pension. But without employer contributions, I would doubt you could make up near the difference. However, it is only one factor, as you say.

2011abc

Unless you felt VERY secure in new job and HATED old Id stay put .Pension is worth a lot .Shame to not reap the dividends .

snor

bluejay21 wrote: »

Hi,

I am a regular poster on the forum (different username).

Just looking for some advise from anyone who has gone in a similar direction or knows someone who has.

Current Post Primary teacher - permanent for several years. Am considering moving to a new school but its paid privately (move is based on possible better work life balance due to commute/ subject choice to teach / change of staffroom). I have just recently got the new job offer so its a real decision I have to make shortly. Current pension is not the new single pension.

New school = private school / no pension. Hours would be fairly secure as subject in demand and school numbers are strong. Salary will be higher. PRSA would be set up and paid into by myself. No employer contribution. Expect to be made permanent after few years.

Would I be mad to effectively walk away from the department pension?

Thanks for any advise.

Why don’t you take a career break. You can take up to 5 years if you haven’t taken any already From what I remember. Will give you the chance to see how the new school goes. Maybe too late for this year though?

2011abc

Oh yeah , what snor said .Def best option if possible

Geuze

I suggest that to replace the DB scheme, a DC fund would need a minimum contribution of 20% of wages per annum.

I have seen estimates that to buy a PS pension would cost 30% of wages.

rainbowtrout

Is your new school an entirely private school, i.e. like a grind school? Or is it a fee paying school which has some department paid teachers and some privately paid teachers?? If it is a private/grind school, then try and get the career break option in your own school, even just to have something to fall back on. I know the date for career break is February but it can be granted at the discretion of the school - generally if they can get a replacement and it doesn't screw up their timetable too much, you should be free to go. Your pension will be frozen and if you return to public sector you will still be in the old pension scheme. If the new school is a fee paying school with department paid teachers then you can keep your eligibility within the old pension scheme once you have work within 6 months, so a couple of department paid substitutions classes during the school year would keep it ticking over.

gaiscioch

If it is a fee-charging school (the overwhelming majority of schools are still, unfortunately, private - that is, not owned by the Irish State) with Department-paid teachers mostly, it is often the practice to move somebody to Department pay where possible and advertise the positions of recently retired or resigned Department-paid staff as school-paid.

You will not have the PRD/ASC coming out of your salary if you will not be paying into a State pension, which could be a minor plus (c. 10% less coming out of your salary).

Also, some of the fee-charging schools state that they will try to match the state pension entitlements. At least I recall the finance man in a Jesuit school saying that many years ago. Not sure if that is a reality for people on private pensions from there, though.

If the private pay doesn't work out and you return to a state-paid teaching job, would you return to state-pay under some new post-2011 salary and pension conditions?

am_zarathustra

gaiscioch wrote: »

If it is a fee-charging school (the overwhelming majority of schools are still, unfortunately, private - that is, not owned by the Irish State) with Department-paid teachers mostly, it is often the practice to move somebody to Department pay where possible and advertise the positions of recently retired or resigned Department-paid staff as school-paid.

You will not have the PRD/ASC coming out of your salary if you will not be paying into a State pension, which could be a minor plus (c. 10% less coming out of your salary).

Also, some of the fee-charging schools state that they will try to match the state pension entitlements. At least I recall the finance man in a Jesuit school saying that many years ago. Not sure if that is a reality for people on private pensions from there, though.

If the private pay doesn't work out and you return to a state-paid teaching job, would you return to state-pay under some new post-2011 salary and pension conditions?

Work out the difference in the pension, it's fairly brutal. We did back of the envelope calculations are it worked out at well over quarter of a million if you live til 80, and that's just moving from one PSPto another, never mind a private pension.

Definitely ask for the career break. Not all private schools are equal. I'd very much doubt any are matching the state pension though, many barely pay scale.

Treppen

Need to know if it's a voluntary fee charging or a grind school. Private is a misleading term in Ireland, but it looks like you mean a fee charging voluntary school and not a grind school.

Every fee charging school has different payment systems. You would really need financial advice to be 100% on the maths.

Pay is higher now in that new school... But is it capped with no increment. If there is an increment, generally the fee charging schools move people across to department as they cost the schools too much in wages, then get some young NQT in privately paid.

Will they 100% guarantee you on at least 1 day DES paid work before the 26 weeks runs out. So you can stay on your old pension scheme. If it's a grind school then that's the option gone.

As mentioned above you'd be free from paying that ASC contribution which is 200+ a month. Imagine topping up your PRSA with that extra 200. PRSA can gobble up investments with service charges and contribution charges, so would really need to shop around (LA brokers have a low charges Zurich PRSA , few people recommended them on boards, but they will give you zero advice , just send you the forms).

I'd talk to someone like cornmarket or PSRA in maynooth, they know the system inside out as regards your exact final pension, bring your own notepad and take notes and get them to repeat themselves slowly as they talk fast :pac: then I'd go to a non education pension advisor and pay the fees for an in-depth conversation about PRSA.

I know 2 teachers who left for the grind school and they seem very happy, but they're up the walls with notes, videos, revision courses, books etc. They said if you don't get the grades then your shown the door pretty quick. One actually took the career-break route before switching over so it seems like a sensible option. I wouldn't tell my current school what I'd be doing though! A school can refuse career break requests.

For fee charging voluntary school you wouldn't be allowed to take a career break from current school and then work there, that would be a big no-no.

Don't forget to factor in saving on travel costs.

Also declining population... will there still be a market for grind schools in future?

If they changed the LC to Leaving Cycle, suddenly instead of lecturing to 100 students, you would have to organise CBAs, continuous assessments or Assessment Tasks for each student. Probably a long way off but I think the writings on the wall.

bluejay21

Thanks @Treppen for that detailed advise!

Really appreciated.

noplacehere

I wouldn’t do it. I’ve taught in a private school and moved just in time to get in before the pay scales and pension changes.

It’s too risky for me to be honest. And my pension is the better pension in the house