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State files ‘suggest taoiseach collusion’ in IRA cover-up, says victims’ group

  • 21-05-2021 11:37am
    #1
    Site Banned Posts: 341 ✭✭ guy2231


    The double IRA bombing just outside Warrenpoint in 1979 killed 18 British soldiers and left twenty seriously injured as they travelled to Newry alongside Carlingford Lough, the paras then fired across the border in retaliation and killed a deaf man who was doing some fishing and wounded another.

    Now victims group Ulster Human Rights Watch (UHRW) says Irish government files from the time appear to confirm RUC allegations that then Taoiseach Jack Lynch was involved in a coordinated effort to cover up details of how the IRA carried out the attack - and hence frustrate RUC efforts to secure justice.

    In 2012 an ex-RUC officer told the Smithwick Inquiry that Garda told him that Taoiseach Jack Lynch said there would be no investigation into the murders because it had been “a political crime”.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,116 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    guy2231 wrote: »
    The double IRA bombing just outside Warrenpoint in 1979 killed 18 British soldiers and left twenty seriously injured as they travelled to Newry alongside Carlingford Lough, the paras then fired across the border in retaliation and killed a deaf man who was doing some fishing and wounded another.

    Now victims group Ulster Human Rights Watch (UHRW) says Irish government files from the time appear to confirm RUC allegations that then Taoiseach Jack Lynch was involved in a coordinated effort to cover up details of how the IRA carried out the attack - and hence frustrate RUC efforts to secure justice.

    In 2012 an ex-RUC officer told the Smithwick Inquiry that Garda told him that Taoiseach Jack Lynch said there would be no investigation into the murders because it had been “a political crime”.




    Who are these UHRW? I looked at their page. Seem like a loyalist mouthpiece. They call on the Republic to "come clean" and simultaneously wanting UK procedures to be changed so that British army personnel who murdered should not be put on trial.


  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭ Fuascailteoir


    Will be hard for anyone to manage to scratch out any semblance of sympathy for the parachute regiment


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭ tdf7187


    guy2231 wrote: »
    The double IRA bombing just outside Warrenpoint in 1979 killed 18 British soldiers and left twenty seriously injured as they travelled to Newry alongside Carlingford Lough, the paras then fired across the border in retaliation and killed a deaf man who was doing some fishing and wounded another.

    Now victims group Ulster Human Rights Watch (UHRW) says Irish government files from the time appear to confirm RUC allegations that then Taoiseach Jack Lynch was involved in a coordinated effort to cover up details of how the IRA carried out the attack - and hence frustrate RUC efforts to secure justice.

    In 2012 an ex-RUC officer told the Smithwick Inquiry that Garda told him that Taoiseach Jack Lynch said there would be no investigation into the murders because it had been “a political crime”.

    Nice try, Eoghan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,741 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    UHRW are just vexatious conspiracy theorists, looking to balance up the narrative of victimhood against those many Catholic and Nationalist families who were actually destroyed by the State collusion of crown forces and loyalist criminals and murderers during the Troubles.

    The IRA were despicable in their own right, of course, but the truth is the Irish Government or agents of the State didn't have the capacity to collude with them in the manner described, even if they wanted to. And I would hazard a guess myself that the RA would have been far more concerned at the real motivation of colluders from the Republic, than would have been the case between the RUC/UDR and loyalists.

    UHRW is the atrocities equivalent of the Board of Ulster Scots language, a made up body for a made up subject.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,734 ✭✭✭✭ blanch152


    Who are these UHRW? I looked at their page. Seem like a loyalist mouthpiece. They call on the Republic to "come clean" and simultaneously wanting UK procedures to be changed so that British army personnel who murdered should not be put on trial.


    Had a look at their page too. Don't know a lot about them.

    However, they are a registered charity with a charity number.

    They are funded (or claim to be) both by "the European Union’s PEACE IV Programme, managed by the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB)" and by "the Victims & Survivors Service through the Victims and Survivors Programme, administered on behalf of the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister". Appear to have 5-6 staff.

    If all of the above true, they are a proper body.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,741 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    Console and Bóthar were properly constituted bodies too, just run by people only interested in benefitting themselves. UHRW is the same, just not for financial gain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,116 ✭✭✭✭ Donald Trump


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Had a look at their page too. Don't know a lot about them.

    However, they are a registered charity with a charity number.

    They are funded (or claim to be) both by "the European Union’s PEACE IV Programme, managed by the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB)" and by "the Victims & Survivors Service through the Victims and Survivors Programme, administered on behalf of the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister". Appear to have 5-6 staff.

    If all of the above true, they are a proper body.




    A proper body with a registered charity number does not mean non-partisan


  • Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭ Fuascailteoir


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Had a look at their page too. Don't know a lot about them.

    However, they are a registered charity with a charity number.

    They are funded (or claim to be) both by "the European Union’s PEACE IV Programme, managed by the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB)" and by "the Victims & Survivors Service through the Victims and Survivors Programme, administered on behalf of the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister". Appear to have 5-6 staff.

    If all of the above true, they are a proper body.

    Wasn't Willie Frazer and FAIR funded through PEACE as well and look how that turned out


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭ Shebean


    I suppose the poor deaf man out fishing doesn't warrant naming or justice. Soldiers behaving like animals. Not a new thing.


  • Site Banned Posts: 341 ✭✭ guy2231


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    UHRW are just vexatious conspiracy theorists, looking to balance up the narrative of victimhood against those many Catholic and Nationalist families who were actually destroyed by the State collusion of crown forces and loyalist criminals and murderers during the Troubles.

    The IRA were despicable in their own right, of course, but the truth is the Irish Government or agents of the State didn't have the capacity to collude with them in the manner described, even if they wanted to. And I would hazard a guess myself that the RA would have been far more concerned at the real motivation of colluders from the Republic, than would have been the case between the RUC/UDR and loyalists.

    UHRW is the atrocities equivalent of the Board of Ulster Scots language, a made up body for a made up subject.

    This one is more along the lines they just weren't bothered to investigate it most likely.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,597 ✭✭✭ tdf7187


    guy2231 wrote: »
    This one is more along the lines they just weren't bothered to investigate it most likely.

    Nice try again. There have been plenty of investigations but contrary to the fantasies of loyalists and a tiny % of self-hating Irish people who exercise disproportionate influence in some of 'our' media, the level of collusion between the ROI state and the IRA was relatively limited and low level and fervently opposed by most of the official ROI governance (low level with one probable exception, see below *) and Lynch definitely wouldn't have been involved.

    * If your theory involved Haughey you might be onto something.

    By contrast, the British state forces were in it up to their neck regarding collusion with loyalists.


  • Site Banned Posts: 341 ✭✭ guy2231


    tdf7187 wrote: »
    Nice try again. There have been plenty of investigations but contrary to the fantasies of loyalists and a tiny % of self-hating Irish people who exercise disproportionate influence in some of 'our' media, the level of collusion between the ROI state and the IRA was relatively limited and low level and fervently opposed by most of the official ROI governance (low level with one probable exception, see below *) and Lynch definitely wouldn't have been involved.

    * If your theory involved Haughey you might be onto something.

    By contrast, the British state forces were in it up to their neck regarding collusion with loyalists.

    It's not my theory I just read it today on an article I don't know what you keep talking about "nice try".


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,034 ✭✭✭✭ maccored


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Had a look at their page too. Don't know a lot about them.

    However, they are a registered charity with a charity number.

    They are funded (or claim to be) both by "the European Union’s PEACE IV Programme, managed by the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB)" and by "the Victims & Survivors Service through the Victims and Survivors Programme, administered on behalf of the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister". Appear to have 5-6 staff.

    If all of the above true, they are a proper body.

    No - if all above is true then they are a registered as a charity. Doesnt mean anything else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,304 ✭✭✭✭ Dyr


    Those poor paratroopers will never get justice for being blun up

    Duirt Bean Liom go nDúirt Bean Léi


  • Registered Users Posts: 567 ✭✭✭ dog_pig


    Wasn't going to be long before there was some attempt at the drawing of equivalences by this type of organisation, the recent Ballymurphy inquest has created an awful lot of bad PR for some.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,741 ✭✭✭✭ Larbre34


    dog_pig wrote: »
    Wasn't going to be long before there was some attempt at the drawing of equivalences by this type of organisation, the recent Ballymurphy inquest has created an awful lot of bad PR for some.

    Not half as much as 'Unquiet Graves' did.

    Progress on ancient atrocities like Ballymurphy and Bloody Sunday is just the eventual emergence of the truth.

    The IRA and INLA killed many innocent people and are every bit as bad as the Loyalist side in that regard, they just didn't have routine State collusion when they did it. And for the Jamie Brysons of this World, there is just no avoiding or deflecting that fact.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,447 ✭✭✭✭ expectationlost


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Had a look at their page too. Don't know a lot about them.

    However, they are a registered charity with a charity number.

    They are funded (or claim to be) both by "the European Union’s PEACE IV Programme, managed by the Special EU Programmes Body (SEUPB)" and by "the Victims & Survivors Service through the Victims and Survivors Programme, administered on behalf of the Office of the First Minister and Deputy First Minister". Appear to have 5-6 staff.

    If all of the above true, they are a proper body.
    EU seeks return of money from Fair and Saver/Naver Willie Frazer https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-15644147


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭ LostinBlanch


    EU seeks return of money from Fair and Saver/Naver Willie Frazer https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-15644147

    Not before time. Wasn't Willie Fraser also implicated in those guns brought in from South Africa for the L
    UDA?

    Edit: here's a link. https://www.derryjournal.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-supplied-guns-used-uda-massacres-finds-bbc-spotlight-johnny-adair-was-frazers-contact-terror-group-934669


  • Site Banned Posts: 341 ✭✭ guy2231


    Not before time. Wasn't Willie Fraser also implicated in those guns brought in from South Africa for the L
    UDA?

    Edit: here's a link. https://www.derryjournal.com/news/politics/willie-frazer-supplied-guns-used-uda-massacres-finds-bbc-spotlight-johnny-adair-was-frazers-contact-terror-group-934669

    He might have had a small part to play in it but it was Brian Nelson who was sent on behalf of MI5/MI6 to acquire the arms


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭ LostinBlanch


    guy2231 wrote: »
    He might have had a small part to play in it but it was Brian Nelson who was sent on behalf of MI5/MI6 to acquire the arms

    But from the article, he was ferrying guns to Johnny Adair and the UDA. How many of those were used in Loughlinisland, Greysteel or the Sean Graham bookies attacks? Exactly the kind of person to get EU funds for reconciliation purposes. Not.


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  • Site Banned Posts: 341 ✭✭ guy2231


    But from the article, he was ferrying guns to Johnny Adair and the UDA. How many of those were used in Loughlinisland, Greysteel or the Sean Graham bookies attacks? Exactly the kind of person to get EU funds for reconciliation purposes. Not.

    P


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