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Dehorning Anesthetic

  • 20-05-2021 10:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ edward901


    Went into the vets today to get some adrenacaine injection for dehorning the last of our calves....only to be told that the product has been taken off the market.Anyone know of any alternative that can be used?It seems to be the situation that you have to get the vet to administer the injection instead.Dont know what product they are using.We have been injecting and dehorning our own calves for years.More rules and regulations.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    edward901 wrote: »
    Went into the vets today to get some adrenacaine injection for dehorning the last of our calves....only to be told that the product has been taken off the market.Anyone know of any alternative that can be used?It seems to be the situation that you have to get the vet to administer the injection instead.Dont know what product they are using.We have been injecting and dehorning our own calves for years.More rules and regulations.

    The Vet's should be able to get you an alternative, I got Alfacaine 2% - they also had LidoBel 2%

    The anesthetic the Vets use for dehorning is not available on prescription.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,469 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe


    Same story here. Called into vets about 6 weeks ago to be told Adrenacaine can't be got. They said they were finding it hard to get. They didn't say it was gone off the market, as such, They were offering me a big bottle of other stuff, but it was way too big, so I left it.
    I ended up doing some calves for a neighbour without any local anaesthetic. Madness. Talked to another vet since and he said same thing, hard to get.
    Any official statement on the matter?

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Same story here. Called into vets about 6 weeks ago to be told Adrenacaine can't be got. They said they were finding it hard to get. They didn't say it was gone off the market, as such, They were offering me a big bottle of other stuff, but it was way too big, so I left it.
    I ended up doing some calves for a neighbour without any local anaesthetic. Madness. Talked to another vet since and he said same thing, hard to get.
    Any official statement on the matter?

    The LidoBel is 250 ml, the Alfacaine comes in 100 ml bottles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 131 ✭✭ edward901


    Where do you get these products. The Lidobel or the Alfacaine.The Vets here didn't mention any of these yesterday. Will call back into them again. Maybe talk to them in private instead. Too many people around when I was in with them. As farmer's we are using the anesthetic for the animals benefit. The people who make these changes are not farmers. The vets are caught in the middle of this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭ Donegalforever


    edward901 wrote: »
    Went into the vets today to get some adrenacaine injection for dehorning the last of our calves....only to be told that the product has been taken off the market.Anyone know of any alternative that can be used?It seems to be the situation that you have to get the vet to administer the injection instead.Dont know what product they are using.We have been injecting and dehorning our own calves for years.More rules and regulations.

    There appears to be two stockists in N. Ireland.
    !. Fane Valley Stores (but will only supply to a Northern Ireland address.)
    2. McCorryAgri.com , Co. Fermanagh have it for sale at £10 - I don't know if
    they will supply it to R.O.I.

    This info may be of no use unless you have some relatives or friend living in N.I.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,469 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe


    Anyone get Adrenacaine this year? I tried my vet yesterday and they don't have it. They said they were trying to get it, but as Norbrook is in the North, hard to get with Brexit etc. I've a few calves to do now.

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Registered Users Posts: 857 ✭✭✭ tellmeabit


    What are you using to dehord, gas bebudder or one of the pastes?



  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ omicron


    Neither product is licenced so technically the vet can't give it to a farmer only use it themselves which is why vets are reluctant to hand it out as they're not actually allowed.


    It's a crazy situation where you legally must use anaesthetic but there's only one product that can be dispensed to a farmer and it's not available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,159 ✭✭✭ alps


    Metacam is approved for use in calves over 1 week old. While its not an anaesthetic, would it not be a next best option?



  • Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭ minerleague


    Use it here, does ease pain next day compared to not using it but wouldn't say it will work rapid enough on the day for dehorning. Got a big bottle of that Lidobel ( sealed it up best I could last year, still wonder will it keep )



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  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ ginger22


    There is no excuse anymore for having to dehorn calves with all the good polled bulls available.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,883 ✭✭✭ Base price


    That is one of the most ridiculous posts I've read on F&F including some of the stuff that the feckin vegans post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ ginger22


    For you information we are milking 220 cows here and all calves born this spring will be polled, all dairy breed animals, Holstein and Brown Swiss, go do your research. Most born last Spring were polled also and more then 30 of the milking cows are polled. You are quite welcome to come and see them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭ tanko


    Are the polled Holstein bulls of the same quality as horned Holstein bulls?



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ ginger22



    Absolutley. 50% of the dairy inseminations in Germany are now to polled bulls, Holland is rapidly catching up. The AI straws we use are from Holland and Germany. We also have polled stock bulls running with the heifers and to clean up on the cows.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,469 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe


    It takes a few generations to bring in the fully polled genetics. Genomic testing really helps too, as it can tell if an animal is Homogeneous Polled (full) or Heterogeneous Polled (1/2 polled).

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,159 ✭✭✭ alps


    What's half polled? A fella with 1 horn up on him?



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ ginger22


    If you use a PP Homozygous polled bull all calves will be polled, half PP Homozygous and the other half P Herteryzogus. Go again in the next generation with PP Homozygous bull and three quarters will be PP Homozygous and one quarter P Herteryzogus, Next generation with a PP Homozygous bull all calves will be PP Homozygous. You can then go with a non polled bull and all calves will be polled half PP Homozygous and the other half P Herterzygous.

    Hope this explains it. Takes a little study.



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ ginger22


    Also as Patsy explained if you genomic test you can find all the PP Homozygous heifers and can use a non polled bull on those and still get a polled calf but again only half will be PP and the other half P.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,469 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe


    This explains it. I have a PBR heterogeneous polled heifer. Really happy with her, very growthy. She is out of a polled stock bull. I bought her mother in-calf to her at the time.



    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ ginger22




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,469 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe


    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭ tanko


    If Polled Holstein bulls are of such good quality why aren’t more Irish dairy farmers using them?



  • Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭ ginger22


    Because of the EBI narrative being pushed here and the Irish AI stations wan you to buy their inbred runts.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,020 ✭✭✭ tanko


    I had four calves here last year that were polled, are nearly a year old now and no horns. Three of them are 3.13% AA and one is 6.25% AA. It’s hard to understand how this can happen. The mothers of these calves had no horns either but their calves had horns in previous years. It strange how the polled genes work.



  • Registered Users Posts: 666 ✭✭✭ The man in red and black


    To be honest all calves should be getting Metacam or a similar anti-inflammatory for pain relief with disbudding anyway. You see way less scour outbreaks in calves when they get pain relief and local anaesthetic for disbudding. Discuss with your vet. There is almost always an alternative local anaesthetic available that can be prescribed by your vet under the cascade. Norocaine was the old brand of Lidocaine(Active ingredient) which was available in 500ml bottles. Is was under the code VSO-Veterinary Surgeon Only which meant it was not to be sold over the counter at all. Adrenacaine (Procaine active ingredient) is the only one licensed for food animals in Ireland but others can be used under the cascade system if Adrenacaine not available so discuss with your vet. Sometimes that may involve buying a 250ml bottle of Lidobel but local is cheap anyway so it's worth spending on.

    A word of experience from when I worked in Canada. If local anaesthetic freezes and thaws out it's as useful as holy water. So if anyone reading this has an old bottle of local on the wall in a shed I would recommend a fresh one this year!



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,469 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe


    I got a bottle of Adrenacaine last week in the vets in Limerick, so it seems to be back again.

    Guys, any tips of catching suckler calves to dehorn them. I was doing a few for a neighbour yesterday and it was a struggle to get a few in the crate. I normally use a short lifting strap, the one with 2 end loops. Throw it around the calves neck then and work them around into the crate. I have the strength to do it but my joints are complaining the next day. Some of these muscley sucklers could be well strong by them time I get the call. So, how do ye catch them?

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    Pallets tied to bars on the crush, crate at the opening, push them in.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,469 ✭✭✭ patsy_mccabe


    Thanks, would you need another person for that?

    " And on the riverbank forgotten the river's name."



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭ Lime Tree Farm


    That's right, the crate is at the entrance to the crush. There are gates along the crush which makes life easier.



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