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Downpipe from gutter draining into ground

  • 18-05-2021 10:33am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ Curvy Vixen


    Hi folks,

    Hoping someone can help here. I have already checked Google and have found conflicting answers.

    We are in the final stages of a brick built bar being finished by builders in our garden. They are looking to be finished up and paid tomorrow. We gave a snag list which is being completed and on it is the fact that there is a gutter on the building but no downpipe. The downpipe is being fitted today - but I have been told that it will just be pointing downwards so the water from the roof will effectively be draining into the ground next to the wall.

    I'm no builder but that doesn't sound right to me - am I right in thinking that it should be being directed somewhere??


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭ karlitob


    Hi folks,

    Hoping someone can help here. I have already checked Google and have found conflicting answers.

    We are in the final stages of a brick built bar being finished by builders in our garden. They are looking to be finished up and paid tomorrow. We gave a snag list which is being completed and on it is the fact that there is a gutter on the building but no downpipe. The downpipe is being fitted today - but I have been told that it will just be pointing downwards so the water from the roof will effectively be draining into the ground next to the wall.

    I'm no builder but that doesn't sound right to me - am I right in thinking that it should be being directed somewhere??

    How big is roof on the bar?

    What’s beside the bar?

    I’m no builder either. I’m barely even a competent DIYer.

    I would imagine if it’s a small bar, and presuming there is earth beside the bar (as a patio would have to be lifted to put in a drain) then I wouldn’t see it as too much of a problem. If it’s pissing rain everything gets wet, so I presume the main problem is that the area that it drains into gets waterlogged.

    Others more experienced might comment but you could sink a small soak away. Dig a 1 or 2 ft hole. Fill it with small stones. Cover with earth. And the drain will pour in there.

    Can you post a pic?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ Curvy Vixen


    Pic is attached there - it's a pretty good size! I think approx 5m x 4m.

    The roof is sloped from front to back so guttering only at the back. At the back is earth though they are putting pebbles/gravel there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,531 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    How does the ground lie in the area the downpipe will be?
    Does it fall away from the bar and towards something that can take water?
    Also, what is the surface under the downpipe? Is it grass/soil/stone/concrete? You will need to be aware that the water will start to erode grass/soil and even possibly stone depending on the size of the roof.
    Assuming they at least put a 90* bend on the end, you can put a flagstone etc underneath to take the power out of the water to avoid the erosion problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,531 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Pic is attached there - it's a pretty good size! I think approx 5m x 4m.

    The roof is sloped from front to back so guttering only at the back. At the back is earth though they are putting pebbles/gravel there.

    Where does the aco drain at the front go to?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ Curvy Vixen


    Between the back of the bar and the back wall is approx 3 foot of, at the moment, earth, they are putting gravel on it. That is where the pipe will be emptying onto.

    There isn't really a fall, it's fairly flat but that end of the garden was always more wet when it rained than the end near the house.

    That is a drain that they put in - we have a saniflo and 2 sinks in the bar - I assume that is taking that waste water to the drain located next to the back of our house.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,127 ✭✭✭ cruizer101


    The channel drain in front of the shed should be going to the surface water drains.
    The sink and saniflow should be going to foul water.

    If you pop the lid on the drain cover can you see the inlets and outlets.

    Could they bring the gutter along the side of shed and the downpipe direct into the channel drain, assuming it goes to the surface water drains.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭ karlitob


    cruizer101 wrote: »
    The channel drain in front of the shed should be going to the surface water drains.
    The sink and saniflow should be going to foul water.

    If you pop the lid on the drain cover can you see the inlets and outlets.

    Could they bring the gutter along the side of shed and the downpipe direct into the channel drain, assuming it goes to the surface water drains.

    That’s some ‘bar’. Very impressive.

    I would’ve thought this is the best option. Bring the down pipe along the side of the wall and drain into that drain.

    If it’s an old house both the grey water and foul waste are into the same drain, I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ Curvy Vixen


    Thanks folks - we haven't been hugely impressed by the builders so far so I wasn't sure if there was a 'short cut' coming on with damp issues in the future and as I said, Google gave every answer to be correct!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,926 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    Rain butt to water the grass?


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,531 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    karlitob wrote: »
    If it’s an old house both the grey water and foul waste are into the same drain, I think.

    Which would be acceptable, assuming there is a trap between the aco and the rest! :-o


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25,531 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    Thanks folks - we haven't been hugely impressed by the builders so far so I wasn't sure if there was a 'short cut' coming on with damp issues in the future and as I said, Google gave every answer to be correct!!

    I would join the gutter to the aco underground via a solid PVC pipe along the side of the bar that hasnt been tiled yet.
    You might have an issue with fall, so next best option is to drain the gutter directly into the top of the aco drain.
    With either approach you may still have issues with the drain overflowing, especially if the rest of the patio is sloping towards the drain....all the surface water in your garden is now going down that drain.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ Curvy Vixen


    Rain butt to water the grass?

    I was debating that but we have gotten rid of all the grass LOL!

    Having said that it might be an option to get one to water the pots that will be there!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,462 ✭✭✭ karlitob


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Which would be acceptable, assuming there is a trap between the aco and the rest! :-o

    What does the that trap look like can I ask? Planning my drainage currently. Have only one drain as old house.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,531 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    karlitob wrote: »
    What does the that trap look like can I ask? Planning my drainage currently. Have only one drain as old house.
    Something like this between the aco drain and the waste line to prevent the smells coming up the open drain.

    But it won't be easy to plumb this all to avoid the waste water flowing back into the trap (and defeating the point) unless you have a good fall or fit non return valve
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Buffalo-Retro-Return-Stainless-Sewerage/dp/B0190PE9RK/ref=asc_df_B0190PE9RK/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=218092154549&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15925723355149190788&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1007850&hvtargid=pla-379251922204&psc=1

    41Pe2PDbprL._AC_.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,502 ✭✭✭ Outkast_IRE


    I was debating that but we have gotten rid of all the grass LOL!

    Having said that it might be an option to get one to water the pots that will be there!

    In an irish winter the rain butt will be full in no time and when its full it just drains to the ground again, so it doesnt really help.

    I would be looking for them to bring a line from the ACO drain assuming its connected up to the surface water drainage system.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,294 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Lies the question……
    Who is inspecting it from a professional point of view?
    Who is Certifying it? Exempt or otherwise?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,926 ✭✭✭✭ Calahonda52


    Gumbo wrote: »
    Lies the question……
    Who is inspecting it from a professional point of view?
    Who is Certifying it? Exempt or otherwise?

    Does SUDs apply here?
    Hope all is well with you :)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,294 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Does SUDs apply here?
    Hope all is well with you :)

    I think it could.
    I don’t know if SUDS is linked to planning or not.
    Does it apply to exempted development though?

    It’s bad foresight not to have the surface water discharge sorted by now. It’s laziness on the builder for not running the pipe up to an AJ at the back of the house and lack of experience by the designer (home owner) not to have made it part of the contract.

    Hope it gets sorted OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭ chooseusername


    Gumbo wrote: »
    I think it could.
    I don’t know if SUDS is linked to planning or not.
    Does it apply to exempted development though?


    It’s bad foresight not to have the surface water discharge sorted by now. It’s laziness on the builder for not running the pipe up to an AJ at the back of the house and lack of experience by the designer (home owner) not to have made it part of the contract.

    Hope it gets sorted OP.

    Has Shebeen through the planning process?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ Curvy Vixen


    Gumbo wrote: »
    I think it could.
    I don’t know if SUDS is linked to planning or not.
    Does it apply to exempted development though?

    It’s laziness on the builder for not running the pipe up to an AJ at the back of the house and lack of experience by the designer (home owner) not to have made it part of the contract.

    Hope it gets sorted OP.

    I agree on both these points - don't worry, we have learned many, many lessons through the last 3 months :mad:

    Thanks all for your help!


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,294 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Has Shebeen through the planning process?

    Depends on it’s area and use. It looks to me that it’s enjoying the shed exemptions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 715 ✭✭✭ Stihl waters


    Cheapest quote op?


  • Registered Users Posts: 720 ✭✭✭ monseiur


    Is the shed/garage with the 'A' roof on left of bar yours ? Where is he rain water off the roof draining to ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,912 ✭✭✭✭ Cuddlesworth


    I would be looking for them to bring a line from the ACO drain assuming its connected up to the surface water drainage system.

    If they were going to put the water from a 20m2 roof into a garden that has clearly been landscaped to all stone, seems there is good chance the drain also goes nowhere. Otherwise it would already have been piped to it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ Curvy Vixen


    Cheapest quote op?

    Not all Stihl waters!!!

    Quite the opposite actually - and we checked Google Reviews - 34, all 4/5 star - and called a local business to us who had reviewed them and spoke to them extensively as well as going to see 3 different jobs they had already done.

    As people who had never got building work done in our lives we did as much as we felt we could to ensure all was above board.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ Curvy Vixen


    If they were going to put the water from a 20m2 roof into a garden that has clearly been landscaped to all stone, seems there is good chance the drain also goes nowhere. Otherwise it would already have been piped to it.

    We have a guy coming out to do the fit out of the bar, us and the family have used him a few times for different things and I am going to ask him to have a look and sort it for us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,131 ✭✭✭ Curvy Vixen


    monseiur wrote: »
    Is the shed/garage with the 'A' roof on left of bar yours ? Where is he rain water off the roof draining to ?

    No that's next doors - good question actually, probably just down the walls! It's a shed that he uses for junk so he probably doesn't care as much as us to be honest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,531 ✭✭✭✭ GreeBo


    @Vixen, If you have a garden hose I would start doing some testing (or actually, if your weather is anything like mine the last few days you wont need the hose!)
    But I would want to see:
    1) Where does the patio water drain to? Does it fall towards the aco drain?
    2) Where does the aco drain lead to? Can it handle the water that it will be taking from the patio
    3) If you put the hose on the roof, can the ground handle the volume of water or does it pool, run back into the building at the back.


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