Espresso at home recommendations

Twee.

I'm moving soon and will no longer have a Nespresso machine, which I do love, but thinking it might be a good chance now to change it up a little (also wanting to buy local coffee, less pod waste etc), and I don't have a fortune to spend.

I like espresso, macchiato, cortado type drinks, as well as the odd latte. I was thinking a moka or Aeropress, if anyone could offer guidance? I will pick up a frother so it's more the coffee side I need help with.

Cheers!

Hodors Appletart

you can't make (good) espresso at home with a (good) espresso machine

Brian?

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

you can't make (good) espresso at home with a (good) espresso machine

I make good espresso at home every day with a mid range espresso machine and really good beans. Why do you say that?

Brian?

Twee. wrote: »

I'm moving soon and will no longer have a Nespresso machine, which I do love, but thinking it might be a good chance now to change it up a little (also wanting to buy local coffee, less pod waste etc), and I don't have a fortune to spend.

I like espresso, macchiato, cortado type drinks, as well as the odd latte. I was thinking a moka or Aeropress, if anyone could offer guidance? I will pick up a frother so it's more the coffee side I need help with.

Cheers!

In my experience aeropress makes great coffee but not good espresso.

How much are you willing to spend?

AndyBoBandy

I've had a Gaggia Cubika for the last 8 years, and make myself and herself a Latte every morning, machine is brilliant.



Or you could go and get a fairly cheap espresso stove.... I picked one up last year for our boat, and it's brilliant.

parttime

I make good coffee with my Delonghi bean to cup. Better than some cafes that serve bewleys muck. Can't stand those stove top yokes though...tastes like burnt coffee

donalh087

I have a Gaggia Classic. It is simple, bullet proof, and makes the best espresso. About €400 but you will never regret it.

AndyBoBandy

Cant remember what I paid for the Gaggia Cubika Plus, but it would have been less than €200 at the time.... but since I've gotten it it's made around 6,000 espresso's/latte's, and still going strong.... (if that worked out at €3 per coffee, that's €18,000!!!)

morale of the story is invest what you can now in a quality machine, look after it and it will repay you ten fold.

Brian?

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Cant remember what I paid for the Gaggia Cubika Plus, but it would have been less than €200 at the time.... but since I've gotten it it's made around 6,000 espresso's/latte's, and still going strong.... (if that worked out at €3 per coffee, that's €18,000!!!)

morale of the story is invest what you can now in a quality machine, look after it and it will repay you ten fold.

How's the steam pressure on it? My machine makes excellent espresso but can't steam milk properly.

I've a De'Longhi Icona Vintage in my own humble abode and a Delonghi EC221R Pump Espresso in my Dad's ......... probably €200 ish each with a bit of discount ....... both are grand admittedly I'm no coffee expert, plenty creme anyway . Once the coffee you are using is to your pleasing then no need to spend megabucks IMO.

eldamo

It seems like you have to go very expensive to get much better than the moka pot or aeropress.
Grinders also start adding up too.

I went down a rabbit hole of James Hoffmann videos on youtube recently, initially for a laugh because he seemed like a parody of a coffee snob, but no, that's actually who he is. Ended up finding them very interesting.

But it led me to realise that to get much better than what I get out of my off brand moka pot and cheap conical burr hand grinder, I would probably not get much change out of 500 buckaroos.

I really notice a difference using fairly freshly roasted beans from local places though very nice.

I only have 1 cup most days, 2 if I am being wild, so nothing more expensive really would work for me.

My buddy Hoffmann ends up saying, that even if you buy a 500 euro machine, you are more setting yourself up as having a new hobby than anything else as there is a lot of work involved in getting the most out of it.

AndyBoBandy

Brian? wrote: »

How's the steam pressure on it? My machine makes excellent espresso but can't steam milk properly.

it's a bit meh in fairness, but what I've been doing for years is warming the milk in a stainless steel Ikea milk jug on the smallest ring gas hob until its warm to the touch, and then steam it....

however from time to time the steamer will make a weird tin like sound and the steam out of it will be crap!!! and the milk wont be so frothy, but it only happens every few weeks for some reason...

eldamo

eldamo wrote: »

It seems like you have to go very expensive to get much better than the moka pot or aeropress.
Grinders also start adding up too.

I went down a rabbit hole of James Hoffmann videos on youtube recently, initially for a laugh because he seemed like a parody of a coffee snob, but no, that's actually who he is. Ended up finding them very interesting.

But it led me to realise that to get much better than what I get out of my off brand moka pot and cheap conical burr hand grinder, I would probably not get much change out of 500 buckaroos.

I really notice a difference using fairly freshly roasted beans from local places though very nice.

I only have 1 cup most days, 2 if I am being wild, so nothing more expensive really would work for me.

My buddy Hoffmann ends up saying, that even if you buy a 500 euro machine, you are more setting yourself up as having a new hobby than anything else as there is a lot of work involved in getting the most out of it.

I have that wilfa grinder that he recommends, its good, makes a nice espresso like brew using a mokka pot following his guide

coffeedesk is where I bought it cheap

Twee.

Thanks for all the recommendations, I'll have a look through and come back!

Space is probably a consideration, I'm sharing with two others in an apartment so countertops are tight. I was hoping to get away with something I could keep in the press, hence the moka/Aeropress idea! Not really looking to get down a rabbit hole of spending 100s to have the best of everything and perfecting my 1-2 cups a day, but would spend say €250 if a machine really was the way to go. Not looking for a new hobby as eldamo says!

Brian?

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

it's a bit meh in fairness, but what I've been doing for years is warming the milk in a stainless steel Ikea milk jug on the smallest ring gas hob until its warm to the touch, and then steam it....

however from time to time the steamer will make a weird tin like sound and the steam out of it will be crap!!! and the milk wont be so frothy, but it only happens every few weeks for some reason...

Warming the milk first is a good tip!

Hodors Appletart

Twee. wrote: »

Thanks for all the recommendations, I'll have a look through and come back!

Space is probably a consideration, I'm sharing with two others in an apartment so countertops are tight. I was hoping to get away with something I could keep in the press, hence the moka/Aeropress idea! Not really looking to get down a rabbit hole of spending 100s to have the best of everything and perfecting my 1-2 cups a day, but would spend say €250 if a machine really was the way to go. Not looking for a new hobby as eldamo says!

you won't get a good enough espresso machine AND grinder good enough to grind to espresso fine grinds for 250, that's an unfortunate truth

You should absolutely go the Aeropress or Clever Dripper route, and get yourself a good burr grinder with your money.

AndyBoBandy

Brian? wrote: »

Warming the milk first is a good tip!

Yeah, if I don't do it, no matter how long I steam the milk for, the latte only ends up warm at best. I guess the steam tank isn't that big, so heating the milk to somewhere between warm and hot before hand means that whatever steam is in there does enough to froth the milk, and give it it's final heat boost...

I judge the steaming by the sound it makes, and know when its ready by the sound it makes...

eldamo

Deleted User wrote: »

I have that wilfa grinder that he recommends, its good, makes a nice espresso like brew using a mokka pot following his guide

coffeedesk is where I bought it cheap

yeah, the wilfa svart looks like a decent upgrade on what I use currently for 100 quid
https://pricespy.co.uk/home-garden/kitchen-household/coffee-machines/coffee-grinders/wilfa-cgws-130b--p3939026
have seen it on offer for less.
I currently use this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01J3TEBW6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
it's slow, but when it is just me working from home, I kinda like the routine of it.
That and the moka pot, but I only drink black coffee, so steaming wands etc are not my thing.
I got a 6 cup moka pot from aldi a few years back just on a whim, have never regretted it, great job.


If I have more people over I use a cheapo electric bladed grinder (also aldi or lidl) and a french press.

Hodors Appletart

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

you won't get a good enough espresso machine AND grinder good enough to grind to espresso fine grinds for 250, that's an unfortunate truth.....

100% true but ground coffee does most of us fine tbh.

Twee.

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

you won't get a good enough espresso machine AND grinder good enough to grind to espresso fine grinds for 250, that's an unfortunate truth

You should absolutely go the Aeropress or Clever Dripper route, and get yourself a good burr grinder with your money.

On the grinder, if I'm buying coffee direct, won't they grind it for me based on what I'm using it for? I've done this before I'm sure.

Hodors Appletart

Twee. wrote: »

On the grinder, if I'm buying coffee direct, won't they grind it for me based on what I'm using it for? I've done this before I'm sure.

They will of course, but ground coffee goes stale much more quickly than wholebean.

Hodors Appletart

also, with a decent grinder and wholebeans you can open up more options for yourself.

Aeropress and Clever are not "batch" brewers really (you might get 2 cups from a brew), but say you had people over, with wholebeans a good grinder and a large French Press you can brew for everyone at the same time.

that's just one example.

Brian?

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

also, with a decent grinder and wholebeans you can open up more options for yourself.

Aeropress and Clever are not "batch" brewers really (you might get 2 cups from a brew), but say you had people over, with wholebeans a good grinder and a large French Press you can brew for everyone at the same time.

that's just one example.

+1 to this.

I have an espresso machine, an aeropress, a french press and a V60. I grind the coffee differently for each.

Mostly I make espresso based coffee, but I like to switch around.

Hodors Appletart

Yeah, espresso machine, v60, Clever, Aero, moka and various size FPs

I usually CBA with espresso as the clever and aero are so handy, my wife has a single cup FP and we have a 1 litre and a 2 litre one for larger batches

Have an Encore grinder and it's great to be able to switch it up easily.

The OP might be best going with a good grinder and a mokka pot or else buy a gaggia or rancillo v6.

The mokka pots can be hit or miss and are hard to clean.

This bundle looks nice https://www.coffeeitalia.ie/rancilio-silvia-nemox-lux.html any body got something similar?

The filter machines are good like the mocca master for a standard coffee. If you pre heat the machine coffee is good.

adrian522

The best advice for setting up for espresso is from Scott Rao: "Buy the best grinder you can afford even if it means you have to buy a cheaper espresso machine"

You will get much better espresso from a good grinder and a cheap machine than the other way around.

When I started first in 2009 I bought a good grinder and stuck with Moka pot and French press for a long while, the coffee was great as I had a good grinder and 3 years later I bought an espresso machine to go with it.

By the way I still have the same grinder going strong 12 years later.

parttime

parttime wrote: »

I make good coffee with my Delonghi bean to cup. Better than some cafes that serve bewleys muck.

I had one also but the grinder is not good enough for wasting money on the best freshly roasted beans

it makes a reasonable cup of coffee but the limitations of the machine are there

parttime

Fair play. I find it good enough to taste differences between 3fe's weekly offerings.
Or maybe I just convince myself to justify 12 euro for 250g of coffee!!
Does a better quality grinder just make a finer grind, or is there something else happening?

parttime

parttime wrote: »

Fair play. I find it good enough to taste differences between 3fe's weekly offerings.
Or maybe I just convince myself to justify 12 euro for 250g of coffee!!
Does a better quality grinder just make a finer grind, or is there something else happening?

A burr grinder grinds coffee to a consistent size

adrian522

Yes, its mainly around the consistency, so all the coffee particles are roughly the same size and you don't get some larger and some smaller particles. You also are able to make very minor adjustments so that you can go a touch finer or a touch coarser if the espresso is drawing a little too quick or too slow.

Ideally I'm looking for an espresso shot in 25-30 seconds, any slower than that I need to make the grind coarser etc.

Soooooo when ye mention a good grinder... How much better than this would ye recommend?

https://www.did.ie/krups-expert-burr-coffee-grinder-black-gvx231-gvx231-prd

Newtown90

I'd recommend a Eureka Mignon Silenzio.

I got mine from black cat coffee last year but pretty sure I've seen them in 010 this year.

Very impressive grinder and really compliments my Rancilio Silvia.

I made the mistake of buying cheap kit when I started out - I'd recommend not making that mistake it works out more expensive in the long run.

Newtown90

Newtown90 wrote: »

I'd recommend a Eureka Mignon Silenzio.

I got mine from black cat coffee last year but pretty sure I've seen them in 010 this year.

Very impressive grinder and really compliments my Rancilio Silvia.

I made the mistake of buying cheap kit when I started out - I'd recommend not making that mistake it works out more expensive in the long run.

This one? https://blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/espresso-grinders/products/copy-of-eureka-mignon-brew-pro-55mm-flat-burrs-1?variant=31520493797443

Is it just trial and error then with the machine to find the right level of coarseness and do you use a weighing scales under the espresso?

Newtown90

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This one? https://blackcatcoffee.co.uk/collections/espresso-grinders/products/copy-of-eureka-mignon-brew-pro-55mm-flat-burrs-1?variant=31520493797443

Is it just trial and error then with the machine to find the right level of coarseness and do you use a weighing scales under the espresso?

Yes like any grinder you have to dial it in.

And yes always a weighing scales.

Hodors Appletart

Augeo wrote: »

Soooooo when ye mention a good grinder... How much better than this would ye recommend?

https://www.did.ie/krups-expert-burr-coffee-grinder-black-gvx231-gvx231-prd

Look, with grinders you'll get what you pay for really - that would be grand for most non-espresso methods I'd say, if not a bit inconsistent. It has 17 "notches".

My Encore has upwards of 40 I think, so you can see the adjustments smaller than something with 17 settings.

I don't have perfect kit. I have the Encore grinder and a Delonghi Micalite machine

I know I'm not getting the best espressos, but I bought the machine before I knew what I was really doing. The espresso I make is passable enough for me, but I prefer to use my Aero or Clever.

I don't know if I want to upgrade my machine because I don't really enjoy Americanos, even when I'm out, and I never drink milk based drinks at all.

AndyBoBandy

I've had a De'Longhi KG79 for the last 3 years, and it's grand for my needs....

I'm sure if I tried one of those £300+ ones I'd notice the difference, but the De'Longhi at its finest setting grinds the coffee to a similar level as the coffee you buy already ground...

I did read about a DIY hack you could do to get it finer, but meh, I'm happy with it as is.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

Soooooo when ye mention a good grinder... How much better than this would ye recommend?

https://www.did.ie/krups-expert-burr-coffee-grinder-black-gvx231-gvx231-prd

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

I've had a De'Longhi KG79 for the last 3 years, and it's grand for my needs....

I'm sure if I tried one of those £300+ ones I'd notice the difference, but the De'Longhi at its finest setting grinds the coffee to a similar level as the coffee you buy already ground...

I did read about a DIY hack you could do to get it finer, but meh, I'm happy with it as is.

Cheers, presumably at that price point they are all much of a muchness.

I find bagged ground coffee lovely so I'm sure the likes of one of those grinders will do me.

Hodors Appletart

The problem with my delonghi is that it can't generate enough pressure for the finer grinds on the encore - now, the encore instructions say that 7-9 notches is the espresso grind, and that works on the machine too, and the flow rate is good, so it's all calibrated in my own system loop, but I 100% know I could get more from the good beans with a better set-up for espresso.

I was getting really delicious results with Red Brick and SweetShop all the same, and that's the best coffee I've had from the machine.

I have some Fairy Floss here unopened and I'll going to try that in the machine, I expect it may be similar to SweetShop

Swampy

Small Moka pot with Lavazza Red espresso coffee. My daily go to.

Hodors Appletart

Hodors Appletart wrote: »

The problem with my delonghi is that it can't generate enough pressure for the finer grinds on the encore...

|I'd have a similar machine so I don't think I'd benefit from a great grinder. I'm a bit of a tree hugger (not an extreme one admittedly) also so I won't replace my coffee machine until it sh1ts itself.

Hodors Appletart

The Encore is a very decent grinder for the money imo, consistent and does what I need it to - it's comparable to the Wilfa Svart according to The Hoff.

I'd been using a cheap blade grinder before and there's a huge difference

I've a chunky enough few quid on a Kildare village voucher.... I might see what that tefal, nespresso etc store has for grinders

FileNotFound

Sage BE worth considering?

Its not a cheap piece of kit but realistically you get a good mid range grinder (perfectly good for espresso blends) and a quality machine that looks good to boot.

Mines been running a few years now, making from a couple (originally) to 4 expresso/cappucinos a day. Long since paid itself off.

mossie

FileNotFound wrote: »

Sage BE worth considering?

Its not a cheap piece of kit but realistically you get a good mid range grinder (perfectly good for espresso blends) and a quality machine that looks good to boot.

Mines been running a few years now, making from a couple (originally) to 4 expresso/cappucinos a day. Long since paid itself off.

I have one and find it's very good. Upgraded from a Nespresso machine and there's no comparison. Since using the Sage BE and Sage grinder I can really taste the quality in good coffee.

Augeo

Augeo wrote: »

Soooooo when ye mention a good grinder... How much better than this would ye recommend?

https://www.did.ie/krups-expert-burr-coffee-grinder-black-gvx231-gvx231-prd

Augeo wrote: »

I've a chunky enough few quid on a Kildare village voucher.... I might see what that tefal, nespresso etc store has for grinders

This was the only grinder they had in "home & cook" in Kildare Village... €36.

FileNotFound

Augeo wrote: »

This was the only grinder they had in "home & cook" in Kildare Village... €36.

Might do but good hance it won't.

Cheap grinders are for press, moka, chemex grind.

Espresso needs not just fine but the ability to dial in.

limnam

parttime wrote: »

I make good coffee with my Delonghi bean to cup. Better than some cafes that serve bewleys muck. Can't stand those stove top yokes though...tastes like burnt coffee

If it tasted burnt you were most likely using it wrong.

adrian522

Yeah, always recommend pre heating the water on those stove top brewers, they are capable of making great coffee though and it looks fantastic as the coffee bubbles through from the lower chamber!

FileNotFound

FileNotFound wrote: »

Might do but good hance it won't.

Cheap grinders are for press, moka, chemex grind.

Espresso needs not just fine but the ability to dial in.

At the finest setting my DELONGHI Icona Micalite pump deadheads.... Setting 4 of 17 gives a nice 25sec double espresso so for me it's a thumbs up for €36.