Mercedes no crank no start

pcardin

Hi All, I have a '11 CLS 250 diesel (W218). Today went to the local shop to do some groceries, came out, got in the car - no start. :eek: Ignition key turns fine, all dash lights come up as should, but no crank, car wont start, not even attempt. No clicking noise either.

First I thought its a battery, but all lights, doors, boot, stereo, seats, everything works. Key is recognised by car (or at least so I think). No faults neither on dash nor car launch. Gearbox works. Very strange issue out of blue. Checked all the fuses, all perfect, had second key on me, same, so its not a key fob issue.

Now sitting, scratching my head outside the shop thinking what could be the issue realistically. I have this car for over a year and had no issues previously whatsoever.

Has anyone come across similar issue in the past maybe and if yes, what was the fix? Also, can anyone maybe recommend a good Mercedes specialist?

Atlantic Dawn

Starter motor would be next port of call. You could try a push start.

BlakeS94

Could be ignition switch, wouldn't recommend a push start, and you won't be able to anyway if it's an automatic gearbox. Have you checked the starter relay? Check connections on battery terminals also

pcardin

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Could be ignition switch, wouldn't recommend a push start, and you won't be able to anyway if it's an automatic gearbox. Have you checked the starter relay? Check connections on battery terminals also

Yes, its an automatic. Starter relay is clicking, fuses are visually not broken. Battery terminals are clean and tight. Ignition is recognising car keys so I hope its not at fault. However, this is a very bizarre fault, came from nowhere, no previous warnings, nothing.

pcardin

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Starter motor would be next port of call. You could try a push start.

its an automatic though

BorneTobyWilde

You mustn't have it in ''Park''

Move lever a few times , then into park again.

pcardin

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

You mustn't have it in ''Park''

Move lever a few times , then into park again.

Did that. Went through all the gears, gearbox works fine and Park also works fine.

BorneTobyWilde

It it push button start

pcardin

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

It it push button start

Mine is without a pushbutton option. Standard Mercedes key

BorneTobyWilde

Try turning the steering wheel to the straight position

pcardin

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Try turning the steering wheel to the straight position

Tried that too. Steering is straight. Interesting though that when key is out, wheel is not locking anymore.

BorneTobyWilde

Jump it, could be a volt issue

kirving

In my experience of a W212, the engine wouldn't even attempt to crank if the battery was a little low, but didn't necessarily give a symbol on the dash. To be perfectly honest, I'm guessing battery as it happened after sitting in the car with the key at Pos 2 with the lights, radio and fan on.

Got out of the car, locked it, and left it for 10 mins. Back in and away she went no issue. It was only a week or so later that the battery light came on (once) and was fine ever since, even in very cold weather.

pcardin

kirving wrote: »

In my experience of a W212, the engine wouldn't even attempt to crank if the battery was a little low, but didn't necessarily give a symbol on the dash. To be perfectly honest, I'm guessing battery as it happened after sitting in the car with the key at Pos 2 with the lights, radio and fan on.

Got out of the car, locked it, and left it for 10 mins. Back in and away she went no issue. It was only a week or so later that the battery light came on (once) and was fine ever since, even in very cold weather.

I tried to jump start but no luck. Will try to put in a different battery to see if it will start and report back later.

pcardin

Another day gone. Car still standing. Checked every fuse and every relay, checked battery, all sound. Even put in replacement battery (almost new one), no difference. Checked signals, it is clear that key fob, ignition, immobilizer, not at fault. Alternator is most likely dead. What surprises me is how ?! Was working perfectly all the time and not even a slightest hint it might fail. Mercedes quality huh?!

Now I have 2 problems - where to find a tow hook (somehow bought mine without one), and where to tow it to? Can anyone recommend good garage maybe around Bray, Greystones, South DUB area?

hellyeah

Hills garage kilcoole are excellent imo. A little further out, just behind the circle k. Using them for years.

pcardin

hellyeah wrote: »

Hills garage kilcoole are excellent imo. A little further out, just behind the circle k. Using them for years.

thanks, I will check them out.

Esel

Terry Jackson, Shankill. Haven't used him in a good few years though. Expensive enough.

spiggotpaddy

Well OP any joy yet? Doubt its the alternator if you put a new battery in, it should crank away.

twofish101

We have a C200 2010 manual and had exactly the same issue, The AA suggested Lock Doctor and they sorted it, the guy said its a very common fault on mercedes. It was the piece around the key, which reads the code on the key and then signals the engine to start. (bogmans description) It cost around €500.00 to fix but they came to where we had the car and it took a couple of hours to replace the parts.
hope this of help.

jmreire

pcardin wrote: »

Another day gone. Car still standing. Checked every fuse and every relay, checked battery, all sound. Even put in replacement battery (almost new one), no difference. Checked signals, it is clear that key fob, ignition, immobilizer, not at fault. Alternator is most likely dead. What surprises me is how ?! Was working perfectly all the time and not even a slightest hint it might fail. Mercedes quality huh?!

Now I have 2 problems - where to find a tow hook (somehow bought mine without one), and where to tow it to? Can anyone recommend good garage maybe around Bray, Greystones, South DUB area?

Dont even think about towing an automatic. What you really need is some one withan OBD reader, and check for stored fault codes.....otherwise you will be just fishing around in the dark. Whether its done on the side of the road, or in a workshop, a scan will be the first thing that needs to be done.

twofish101

jmreire wrote: »

Dont even think about towing an automatic. What you really need is some one withan OBD reader, and check for stored fault codes.....otherwise you will be just fishing around in the dark. Whether its done on the side of the road, or in a workshop, a scan will be the first thing that needs to be done.

I agree about towing a dead car

I have an OBD reader and this error did not show when we scanned it after the AA dropped it off, also the AA lad had a full diagnostic setup which he plugged in and said the same no errors. Its not essentially an error its the key not being recognised as I understand it.

passatman86

twofish101 wrote: »

We have a C200 2010 manual and had exactly the same issue, The AA suggested Lock Doctor and they sorted it, the guy said its a very common fault on mercedes. It was the piece around the key, which reads the code on the key and then signals the engine to start. (bogmans description) It cost around €500.00 to fix but they came to where we had the car and it took a couple of hours to replace the parts.
hope this of help.

Sounds like this
Ive seen a few very similar issues online

jmreire

twofish101 wrote: »

I agree about towing a dead car

I have an OBD reader and this error did not show when we scanned it after the AA dropped it off, also the AA lad had a full diagnostic setup which he plugged in and said the same no errors. Its not essentially an error its the key not being recognised as I understand it.

Could it have been the key battery was at fault? When a scan shows no fault codes, but there's still a problem, thats when personal experience of the mechanic kicks in. Main dealerships will normally be able to put their hand on it. ( but not always either) especially when its a common fault just by hearig a description of the problem.

greasepalm

Is there a second battery in car hidden?

pcardin

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

Well OP any joy yet? Doubt its the alternator if you put a new battery in, it should crank away.

Hi all, car is in garage. Dead starter motor. I have a picture sent by mechanic. Got a quote today , I hope it will be back on roads by the end of this week.

pcardin

greasepalm wrote: »

Is there a second battery in car hidden?

there is. These CLS have 2 batteries. But both are fine.

spiggotpaddy

pcardin wrote: »

Hi all, car is in garage. Dead starter motor. I have a picture sent by mechanic. Got a quote today , I hope it will be back on roads by the end of this week.

Not too bad, get one from a scrapper and all will be good. I thought it might have been the SAM but you shouldn't be bad with costs.

pcardin

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

Not too bad, get one from a scrapper and all will be good. I thought it might have been the SAM but you shouldn't be bad with costs.

i guess auto start-stop function has brought this starter motor to its end. Its a function I turn off every time but maybe previous owner was using daily.

I am getting a new starter motor fitted as anything from scrapper is a lotto. And getting to the starter in this car is a massive job.

jmreire

pcardin wrote: »

i guess auto start-stop function has brought this starter motor to its end. Its a function I turn off every time but maybe previous owner was using daily.

I am getting a new starter motor fitted as anything from scrapper is a lotto. And getting to the starter in this car is a massive job.

Yes starter motors and timing chains are at increased risk with constant stop / start use. I turn mine off as part of the standard list before driving... Get in Car, seat belt on, Start engine, turn off stop start, hand brake off, indicators on, check mirrors , indicate and drive on.
Strage that the scan did not show a code for the faulty starter...maybe he did not try the starter while the reader was plugged in? But glad you got it sorted anyway.

greasepalm

Never seen a fault error code in my life for a starter.

spiggotpaddy

pcardin wrote: »

i guess auto start-stop function has brought this starter motor to its end. Its a function I turn off every time but maybe previous owner was using daily.

I am getting a new starter motor fitted as anything from scrapper is a lotto. And getting to the starter in this car is a massive job.

I wouldn't have thought a starting motor was a massive job for any mechanic, what's in the way exhaust, engine mount? Probably right to buy a new part if prices aren't too bad but I would just remove it, go to scrap yard and replace it in the same day. If I want a new part I go online to avoid the snobbery of mercedes dealership. I went into the main dealer in portarlington to buy an oil filter recently and the parts guy said to come back in an hour as he was going for his lunch.

jmreire

greasepalm wrote: »

Never seen a fault error code in my life for a starter.

I'll have to check again as I'm not 100% sure, but as far as I remember the last time I ran a scan on my E class with the iCarsoft CRO Pro, and started the engine while it was plugged it in, it showed starting data. But like I said, I will check it out again. Plugging in the reader with the engine already running, and the starter inactive, yeah I could understand that not showing any data allright. What kind of scanner do you use?

greasepalm

Autel Mk808 which is very good on the amount of codes found as having used an autoboss beforehand m8 in garage has a launch model and finds no codes but when the Autel runs many are found.

Most cars are scanned with ignition on.
Then you get the odd car needs to be running.

The only thing you might have heard was a click from solenoid if you listened carefully.
New starter or get own one refurbished but not a scrapper one.

jmreire

greasepalm wrote: »

Autel Mk808 which is very good on the amount of codes found as having used an autoboss beforehand m8 in garage has a launch model and finds no codes but when the Autel runs many are found.

Most cars are scanned with ignition on.
Then you get the odd car needs to be running.

The only thing you might have heard was a click from solenoid if you listened carefully.
New starter or get own one refurbished but not a scrapper one.

Yes, originally I had the iCar soft MB11, which had replaced the i908 one, but a week after I got the MB11, they updated again to the iCarsofr V2...and then later the CRO Pro came out, and as it's primarily MB ,it has a good range of of oher makes too so I got it. With the MB11, there was a good range of scanning and while you could do a certain amount with it, you could not really go too deep into the ECU's to do damage. The CroPro can do lots more, including Regens, and it aleo gives better live data. I'd say it was on the CRO Pro that I saw the starter data, but I'll check it again...as soon as the rain stops:mad:
Yes the click from the solenoid was always the give away before, and I'm sure that it was happening in this case too, but with the level of insulation and sitting inside the car, it would have gone unnoticed. Yeah, I'd be going for a redfurbished or new starter. The brushes were pretty far gone on that starter ( at least one of them.} But it would be repairable, I'd say.

pcardin

spiggotpaddy wrote: »

I wouldn't have thought a starting motor was a massive job for any mechanic, what's in the way exhaust, engine mount? Probably right to buy a new part if prices aren't too bad but I would just remove it, go to scrap yard and replace it in the same day. If I want a new part I go online to avoid the snobbery of mercedes dealership. I went into the main dealer in portarlington to buy an oil filter recently and the parts guy said to come back in an hour as he was going for his lunch.

and you would be right when it comes to most of cars. But not this one. Starter motor is buried so deep, exhaust has to come off, then engine mount, and a bunch of other garbage before you can remove starter. there is a youtube video somewhere available. Really is a time consuming job for any mechanic.

pcardin

greasepalm wrote: »

Autel Mk808 which is very good on the amount of codes found as having used an autoboss beforehand m8 in garage has a launch model and finds no codes but when the Autel runs many are found.

Most cars are scanned with ignition on.
Then you get the odd car needs to be running.

The only thing you might have heard was a click from solenoid if you listened carefully.
New starter or get own one refurbished but not a scrapper one.

Mine did not have even a click. COuld only hear relay working but silence after that.

Anyway, got my car back today. 500 quid all together (expensive)

jmreire

greasepalm wrote: »

Never seen a fault error code in my life for a starter.

Here's copy of my latest scan, see what you think.

BavarianCare

greasepalm wrote: »

Never seen a fault error code in my life for a starter.

It is possible. Even in old BMW F10s you can get excessive current draw faults & also speed of starter during crank.
Common on high mileage 6 cylinder diesels after hot soak for 2-5 mins and will not crank.

Cures itself after cooling down but starter motor should be renewed in that case. F10 starter motor is SIMPLE to change compared to Mercedes mentioned in this thread.