The advantage rule

Sunny Disposition

The advantage rule is getting a lot of criticism. As I see it they are trying to do now what was needed the first time, give a free when it is advantageous and let play go when it is not. The reality is that a free is almost always more advantageous, at intercounty level in particular.
On TV last Sunday night Cusack and Dowling had trawled games looking for negative examples of the new rule. But if they examined games over the last five years they could have found hundreds of examples where a so-called advantage was given when teams would have been better served by being awarded a free. That was a clear and obvious issue for several years, but the commentariat were all about 'letting the game flow' rather than having consequences for fouling.

Davys Fits

Let the game flow is fine but not at all costs. We cant just allow the game to degenerate into a fouling free fest for the sake of letting the game flow and that's what's happening. There are too many 'hands' involved in todays game. Players are now leading with their hands in the tackle instead of the hurley which was always the case. Then once the ball is in hand the handpass allows players to easily move the ball on. Hand pass is largely indefensible as opposed to hooking and blocking. The GAA will be forever tinkering with the rules to stop constant fouling and you cant blame them for that. The latest change to the advantage rule seems in the short term seems to take the advantage away but maybe in the long term players will just stop fouling? Maybe we need to have a closer look at why there are so many fouls these days most of them I have to say are spare hand fouls. Why is the first instinct of a player to stick out their hands and suffocate the player in possession and inevitably lead to a foul? Therein lies the problem.

theoneeyedman

There are have been 2 major changes thie year, the ' advantage' rule and the penalty rule for 'cynical play '.

Now, im not one of those who say the game is great, don't change anything, particularly football can benefit from positive rule changes imo.

The change in advantage is a backward step, the 5 second rule had bedded in and was understood, and generally helps the attacking team. This change as it is will lead to less leeway for referees, more stoppages for spectators, and in some way punishes the attacker, removes the possibility of breaking the foul.

The penalty / last man back rule WTF? In the Dublin game yesterday there were 2 instances. One was harsh but probably correct, guy bearing down on the box was fouled and penalty/black card given.

The second one was crazy, contest for a high ball on the end line, was a borderline foul but a foul probably nonetheless, but not deliberate and occured halfway between goal and corner flag.

For this to be a penalty and a black card is nuts. Didn't make any real difference yesterday (this pen was missed) but it could in a few weeks. If this is the correct implementation of the rule, it's nuckin futs!

theoneeyedman

theoneeyedman wrote: »

There are have been 2 major changes thie year, the ' advantage' rule and the penalty rule for 'cynical play '.

Now, im not one of those who say the game is great, don't change anything, particularly football can benefit from positive rule changes imo.

The change in advantage is a backward step, the 5 second rule had bedded in and was understood, and generally helps the attacking team. This change as it is will lead to less leeway for referees, more stoppages for spectators, and in some way punishes the attacker, removes the possibility of breaking the foul.

The penalty / last man back rule WTF? In the Dublin game yesterday there were 2 instances. One was harsh but probably correct, guy bearing down on the box was fouled and penalty/black card given.

The second one was crazy, contest for a high ball on the end line, was a borderline foul but a foul probably nonetheless, but not deliberate and occured halfway between goal and corner flag.

For this to be a penalty and a black card is nuts. Didn't make any real difference yesterday (this pen was missed) but it could in a few weeks. If this is the correct implementation of the rule, it's nuckin futs!

And that's the issue with going nuclear for cynical foul.

Some team will lose a big game over it, you're going to concede 3 points and then possibly another deficit when you're down a man.

It's all well and good if it's a Sean Cavanagh tackle, but once you bring in something.. mistakes happen and a nothing challenge will see a team KOd of the championship at some point.

It really bugs me that the GAA have to go to extreme lengths to rectify an issue that is easier solved and cuts out a second issue.

If a team are winning by 4 points and theres 3mins to go.
They drag a player down.
If you stopped the clock for frees, then the yellow is sufficient as killing the clock is just as important as the foul.
Now the team above are only 3 behind and the clock is still at 3mins when the ball comes back into play.

Suddenly you can score a lot in 3 mins and the winning team aren't taking any time of the clock with their cynical play and the best thing to do is not foul and keep the clock running.
The yellows can also turn to reds so theres no need for a black card.

And low and behold the constant time wasting and fake injuries would be gone as well as the clocks stopped so why would you bother arsing around.

But no, we'll leave the clock run which encourages time wasting and possible aggrievences about having a person time keep and we'll bring in rafts of cards and penalties instead.

Davys Fits

I think the idea is that the advantage rule, while letting the game flow, it also meant alot of fouls went unchecked and players felt they could repeat the foul and get away with it and the game becomes riddled with fouls. There is some truth in this for sure.

RedRochey

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The advantage rule is getting a lot of criticism. As I see it they are trying to do now what was needed the first time, give a free when it is advantageous and let play go when it is not. The reality is that a free is almost always more advantageous, at intercounty level in particular.
On TV last Sunday night Cusack and Dowling had trawled games looking for negative examples of the new rule. But if they examined games over the last five years they could have found hundreds of examples where a so-called advantage was given when teams would have been better served by being awarded a free. That was a clear and obvious issue for several years, but the commentariat were all about 'letting the game flow' rather than having consequences for fouling.

In those cases then the ref should bring it back for a free, simple as. Ok I get that in some cases it could be hard to figure out what is advantageous or not, e.g. a free on your own 65 or your half-back picking out a pass into the corner, but it just sounds like the refs should work on what determines an advantage, instead of changing the whole rule

They're basically saying now that they would prefer for a ref to give a foul 95% of the time instead of say 70% of the time, but I think a lot of people would prefer a more free flowing game with more scores from play than just an all-out free taking competition

cms88

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

The advantage rule is getting a lot of criticism. As I see it they are trying to do now what was needed the first time, give a free when it is advantageous and let play go when it is not. The reality is that a free is almost always more advantageous, at intercounty level in particular.
On TV last Sunday night Cusack and Dowling had trawled games looking for negative examples of the new rule. But if they examined games over the last five years they could have found hundreds of examples where a so-called advantage was given when teams would have been better served by being awarded a free. That was a clear and obvious issue for several years, but the commentariat were all about 'letting the game flow' rather than having consequences for fouling.

If the likes of Donal had his way hurling would have rules to ''let the game flow''. His typle his in a dream world where there's no problems with hurling and it's the greatest game in the world. Fact i things that are said to be ''part of the game'' in hurling are an excuse for dirty late tackles.

The idea that there's no diving in hurling as Dowling tried to make out is a new one. This from a man who hit the ground after the slightest touch.

Strumms

Giving a player and identifying an advantage isn’t difficult, if the player and team don’t avail of the advantage that’s on them...

Being given an advantage isn’t just about letting play go though , the attacker might maintain possession but if they are up against two opposing defenders having had their progress slowed, blow it up and get the notebook out.

Claude Burgundy

https://boards.ie/discussion/comment/117184415#Comment_117184415

What is the change to the 5 second rule ?

Sunny Disposition

As the year has gone on refs are reverting to type a bit, not blowing even though a free means a certain point and there is no goal chance. A free should always be given immediately in those circumstances, anything else rewards fouling.

Grats

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693473#Comment_117693473

Correct.

Davys Fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693473#Comment_117693473

Its always been this way. Come early next year refs will be blowing for everything. Players will adapt and by the time the c'ship starts their will be a a fine balance between playing the game within the rules and letting the game flow. I have to say that there has been alot less blatant fouling with the spare hand in this years c'ship and maybe the goal count is proof of that. Surely thats progress and maybe the refs deserve some credit for that?