Urgently need to fix teeth damaged during childhood abuse

Hilfe

Hi all,

I am a young adult who through some miracle survived horrific childhood abuse and neglect. Unbelievable as it sounds I was never shown how to brush my teeth as a child and furthermore the violence in my home damaged my teeth to the point where some of the back teeth are missing, half-missing and all are yellow. Since I was a teenager many people have pointed this out and I have suffered bullying as a result. I have no got a degree, employment and I am working on recovering the mental scars.

However, the condition of my teeth have deteriorated to the point I can't even smile with inciting disgust. Obviously I brush them every night but it's too late to reverse the damage. It's affecting my confidence to the point on making me suicidal as the effects of my abuse are staring at me every time I look in the mirror.

I have two questions that I wanted to ask.

1. Is this something that dentists encounter in their jobs i.e. teeth destroyed due to parental neglect and physical abuse? I am ashamed to bring it up with the dentist but I don't want them to think I chose to neglect this. I would kill to be able to smile again.

2. Secondly I was told by a dentist in the Dublin (where I am from) that I would need implants and veneers to correct the damage and give me a nice smile. The cost was far beyond what I could afford. I'm not complaining as I know it costs a lot to craft implants and provide good service ect. I am just at the start of my career and it will be a few years before I could afford everything.

I now live in Germany but fly back to Ireland when I can. For my mental health I need to get my teeth fixed. I know there's mixed views on dental tourism but a lot of Germans here cross the border to Poland to get their teeth fixed.

I would rather get them fixed in Ireland when I fly back next for a few months but I have to be realistic. I can't have this affecting me any longer but I can't pay for this in Ireland right now. This is likely a stupid question but is there an installments plan that is possible?

Thanks in advance
Ed

Unfortunately, the type of treatment you refer to would involve a considerable amount of clinical time and laboratory costs. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that Dentists would agree to payments after the treatment is completed. You might be able to get a credit union loan and pay it off in instalments over a year. There are few better countries to access treatment than Germany by the way.

Hilfe

Dav010 wrote: »

Unfortunately, the type of treatment you refer to would involve a considerable amount of clinical time and laboratory costs. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that Dentists would agree to payments after the treatment is completed. You might be able to get a credit union loan and pay it off in instalments over a year. There are few better countries to access treatment than Germany by the way.

Thank you for the quick response. German dental care is also very expensive. I'll keep looking.

Have you ever come across a case like I describe (I'm assuming from your post that you're a dentist so apologies if I am wrong)?

Hilfe

I should add that I'm not absolutely broke. I could spend 10,000 on getting this done right now. It's not that I am looking for the cheapest option but the one I can afford the fastest.

Hilfe

Hilfe wrote: »

Thank you for the quick response. German dental care is also very expensive. I'll keep looking.

Have you ever come across a case like I describe (I'm assuming from your post that you're a dentist so apologies if I am wrong)?

All the time, Dentists don’t judge you on why it happened, assessment is made of what treatment is required to meet patient expectations with focus being on prevention going forward. Unfortunately if you need multiple implants/veneers etc, you may need to increase your budget.

Hilfe

Dav010 wrote: »

All the time, Dentists don’t judge you on why it happened, assessment is made of what treatment is required to meet patient expectations with focus being on prevention going forward. Unfortunately if you need multiple implants/veneers etc, you may need to increase your budget.

Ok I appreciate your advice. I was sort of hoping for the installments route being possible. I can't begin to describe what it's like to live with the effects of something that was done to you as a child. Live with this for the rest of my life I suppose.

steddyeddy

OP first of all if you feel suicidal I hope you know there's organisations such as Pieta house that can help. Here's their number: Freephone 1800 247 247.

Secondly there might be other organisations to turn to here. When I was in UCD I volunteered for an organisation that helped disadvantaged students and adult victims of child abuse. Trust me that you are not alone in suffering the effects of dental neglect by one's parent's. I have seen people destroyed over the embarrassment that this can cause I want you to know that there's others out there like you.

So I am also writing here as I currently live in Vorpommern. You're not going to get an affordable option here for major cosmetic dentistry like this. In fact Germans often go to Szczecin (just over the border) for this type of work.

It might be a long shot but some of the students I worked with in UCD had their smile fixed by a kind hearted dentist not exactly pro-bono but at a major discount and with help from UCD. This has happened about five times working with young adults such as yourself.

Apart from the last admittedly rather vague advice Ich auch wohne in Germany so message me anytime.

steddyeddy

Hilfe wrote: »

Ok I appreciate your advice. I was sort of hoping for the installments route being possible. I can't begin to describe what it's like to live with the effects of something that was done to you as a child. Live with this for the rest of my life I suppose.

I have to say I think it would be the hallmark of an uncaring society if someone couldn't at least offer partial installments even with interest charged if need be.

This might sound embarrassing OP but please get in touch with the SVP and especially AVOCA Counselling Service for Adult Survivors of Childhood Abuse. I would email every dentist you can to find an option. It's worth trying everything. Happiness isn't only for the extremely well off.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

I have to say I think it would be the hallmark of an uncaring society if someone couldn't at least offer partial installments even with interest charged if need be.

Kinda like a Credit Union?

steddyeddy

Dav010 wrote: »

Kinda like a Credit Union?

When you have worked with victims of child abuse you'll know what I'm talking about. It's not easy to put oneself through every single hoop especially as the OP states he\she is suicidal.

The OP also lives in Germany. Getting a credit union loan would require you building up credit for at least a year or two.

How long have you lived here OP?

Hilfe

Dav010 wrote: »

Kinda like a Credit Union?

I ran away from home at 15 and have put every penny I had into renting in Dublin while putting myself through university.

I have no savings and this is the first time I am earning OK money. To say it has been a struggle is an understatement. The credit union stated that I need some savings first.

The reason I writing is because I am really stuck. I have tried banks, credit unions and even loan sharks.

Hilfe

steddyeddy wrote: »

When you have worked with victims of child abuse you'll know what I'm talking about. It's not easy to put oneself through every single hoop especially as the OP states he\she is suicidal.

The OP also lives in Germany. Getting a credit union loan would require you building up credit for at least a year or two.

How long have you lived here OP?

I moved here in October. I haven't got a decent command of the language yet either and there are very few English speaking dentists in this part of Germany.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

When you have worked with victims of child abuse you'll know what I'm talking about. It's not easy to put oneself through every single hoop especially as the OP states he\she is suicidal.

The OP also lives in Germany. Getting a credit union loan would require you building up credit for at least a year or two.

How long have you lived here OP?

But you think it’s a sign of “an uncaring society” for a Dentist to not assume the risk related to expensive cost of providing such treatment when other lenders will not?

Nigzcurran

Humm (Flexi-Fi) do finance for dental work

steddyeddy

Dav010 wrote: »

But you think it’s a sign of “an uncaring society” for a Dentist to not assume the risk related to expensive cost of providing such treatment?

To be honest Dav I would think that if a victim of child abuse is suicidal over the conditions of their teeth then yes. A society where no dentist would show a bit of leniency would be an uncaring one. I wouldn't expect anyone to do it as I know dentistry can be extremely hard to stay afloat for those entering the business. That said, I would like to think that a dentist established and with a good business model might take it in installments even after an initial lump sum.

I know for a fact that some of the larger dental practices have done this in Ireland.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

To be honest Dav I would think that if a victim of child abuse is suicidal over the conditions of their teeth then yes. A society where no dentist would show a bit of leniency would be an uncaring one. I wouldn't expect anyone to do it as I know dentistry can be extremely hard to stay afloat for those entering the business. That said, I would like to think that a dentist established and with a good business model might take it in installments even after an initial lump sum.

I know for a fact that some of the larger dental practices have done this in Ireland.

While I do empathise with the op’s life experience, I don’t think you appreciate the costs involved in providing the type of treatment the op is considering. If the patient had other pressing financial needs, which we all encounter at times, the Dentist will still have to pay all the laboratory/component/clinical costs, even if the patient can’t pay. Sorry, but if other lenders are not prepared to lend, it is a bit disingenuous to say the Dentist should give a loan worth thousands of euro with no prospect of recovery if the patient hasn’t the funds to pay it off.

steddyeddy

Hilfe wrote: »

I ran away from home at 15 and have put every penny I had into renting in Dublin while putting myself through university.

I have no savings and this is the first time I am earning OK money. To say it has been a struggle is an understatement. The credit union stated that I need some savings first.

The reason I writing is because I am really stuck. I have tried banks, credit unions and even loan sharks.

You should be commended with what you have already accomplished. That really is quite amazing.

Long shot but you're not a scientist are you? My insurance as a scientist is with Techniker Krankenkasse (TK). It's good and I know the offer more dental care cover than most.

I'm thinking out loud here but I wonder if your psychiatrist or doctor could write a letter stating that this is affecting your mental health your insurance could stretch to this.

steddyeddy

Dav010 wrote: »

While I do empathise with the op’s life experience, I don’t think you appreciate the costs involved in providing the type of treatment the op is considering. If the patient had other pressing financial needs, which we all encounter at times, the Dentist will still have to pay all the laboratory/component/clinical costs, even if the patient can’t pay. Sorry, but if other lenders are not prepared to lend, it is a bit disingenuous to say the Dentist should give a loan worth thousands of euro with no prospect of recovery if the patient hasn’t the funds to pay it off.

Did I say that it was ideal? No. I am reading a thread where a victim of child abuse said they are suicidal.

I wouldn't judge a dentist for not covering a loan but I would judge a society where there wasn't one dentist who tried to work out some alternative or at least provide other options.

So is it ideal or even acceptable that a dentist would expose him or herself to financial risk? No of course not.

Is it ideal or acceptable that a victim of child abuse (who seems willing to put 10k up front) is suicidal because of they can't afford to fix this? No it's not.

It's by far the lesser of two evils for a dentist to be at increased risk rather than a child abuse victim be close to suicide.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Did I say that it was ideal? No. I am reading a thread where a victim of child abuse said they are suicidal.

I wouldn't judge a dentist for not covering a loan but I would judge a society where there wasn't one dentist who tried to work out some alternative or at least provide other options.

So is it ideal or even acceptable that a dentist would expose him or herself to financial risk? No of course not.

Is it ideal or acceptable that a victim of child abuse (who seems willing to put 10k up front) is suicidal because of they can't afford to fix this? No it's not.

It's by far the lesser of two evils for a dentist to be at increased risk rather than a child abuse victim be close to suicide.

You understand this is the “Dental Issues” forum?

steddyeddy

Dav010 wrote: »

You understand this is the “Dental Issues” forum?

Sorry D am I missing anything? The OP stated that their teeth is causing them psychological distress. That's why I mention mental health.

As for the rest of my post you asked a question and I answered.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Sorry D am I missing anything? The OP stated that their teeth is causing them psychological distress. That's why I mention mental health.

As for the rest of my post you asked a question and I answered.

The Dentist can only deal with dental issues.

Hilfe

Dav010 wrote: »

The Dentist can only deal with dental issues.

Maybe this wasn't directed at me but I did state in my OP that my teeth are a visible effect of child abuse. I was hit by a hammer as a child, breaking some teeth and causing infections. The pain I am in and the appearance of my teeth are a huge source of psychological distress for me. Was it irrelevant that I said I am suicidal as an effect of all of this?

Hilfe

Nigzcurran wrote: »

Humm (Flexi-Fi) do finance for dental work

Thank you I will try to contact them. They do have a limit of 30k though. I have a feeling this will be more expensive. It's a start though.

steddyeddy

Dav010 wrote: »

The Dentist can only deal with dental issues.

Dav can you imagine walking around with teeth damaged by childhood abuse? It's not a leap to think that would affect your mental health.

steddyeddy

OP it's 11 here and I'm up early tomorrow. I'm logging off but please try everything I recommended. I worked with people in exactly the same situation that you were in. PM me if you need any help practicing German.

Hilfe

Hilfe wrote: »

Maybe this wasn't directed at me but I did state in my OP that my teeth are a visible effect of child abuse. I was hit by a hammer as a child, breaking some teeth and causing infections. The pain I am in and the appearance of my teeth are a huge source of psychological distress for me. Was it irrelevant that I said I am suicidal as an effect of all of this?

Hilfe you need to seek help from suitable professionals in relation to your childhood experience and suicidal thoughts, a Dentist is not that professional. When you sit in the chair, a Dentist will examine your teeth, listen to what treatments you want, discuss a treatment plan and give a quotation. Though you may feel this will change your life, the reality is that your Dentist will not be able to help you with your psychological distress, you need to discuss that with trained professionals.

Hilfe

Dav010 wrote: »

Hilfe you need to seek help from suitable professionals in relation to your childhood experience and suicidal thoughts, a Dentist is not that professional. When you sit in the chair, a Dentist will examine your teeth, listen to what treatments you want, discuss a treatment plan and give a quotation. Though you may feel this will change your life, the reality is that your Dentist will not be able to help you with your psychological distress, you need to discuss that with trained professionals.

I have been talking to trained professionals since the age of 15.

I am not stupid and I am not confusing a dentist with a psychologist. This has been flagged as an issue by every mental health professional I have seen.

Of course getting my teeth fixed would help with my mental health. I don't see how a dentist wouldn't understand the connection.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

Dav can you imagine walking around with teeth damaged by childhood abuse? It's not a leap to think that would affect your mental health.

Indeed I can, and every Dentist treats patients daily who have damaged teeth, but again, it is disingenuous to think that Dentists could assume responsibility for recovery from childhood abuse by offering treatment on credit.

Again, there are professionals more able to assist the op with psychological issues, and lenders for finance.

Hilfe

steddyeddy wrote: »

OP it's 11 here and I'm up early tomorrow. I'm logging off but please try everything I recommended. I worked with people in exactly the same situation that you were in. PM me if you need any help practicing German.

Thank you for your help and understanding. I am even writing this in pain and to be honest I was looking for a bit of support in this thread as well as advice.

steddyeddy

Dav010 wrote: »

Indeed I can, and every Dentist treats patients daily who have damaged teeth, but again, it is disingenuous to think that Dentists could assume responsibility for recovery from childhood abuse by offering treatment on credit.

Again, there are professionals more able to assist the op with psychological issues, and lenders for finance.

And I didn't say it was a responsiblity. I said I would like to think someone would take on this case. I know for a fact some dentists in Ireland have done such a thing. If you read my earlier post I said I wouldn't blame anyone for not doing this. I know it's an incredibly expensive business.

We disagree on this but maybe let's not turn an advice thread into a disagreement.

steddyeddy

Hilfe wrote: »

Thank you for your help and understanding. I am even writing this in pain and to be honest I was looking for a bit of support in this thread as well as advice.

I'll end by saying that Germany isn't that bad for prices if you get a good dentist. I used to work in the US and the dental care was astronomical. You're also surrounded by countries that offer cheaper dental care. Look for places the Germans go themselves.

Hilfe

So I'm a bit confused after this. Is it wrong to tell the dentist that this is affecting my mental health severely. My social work and psychiatrist stated that it's important to mention it so that I find a dentist I feel comfortable with.

helimachoptor

Hilfe wrote: »

So I'm a bit confused after this. Is it wrong to tell the dentist that this is affecting my mental health severely. My social work and psychiatrist stated that it's important to mention it so that I find a dentist I feel comfortable with.

No, i think dentists understand that bad teeth can really impact a person confidence and view of themselves. But that won't sway the dentist into exposing themselves financially.

Hilfe

Hilfe wrote: »

So I'm a bit confused after this. Is it wrong to tell the dentist that this is affecting my mental health severely. My social work and psychiatrist stated that it's important to mention it so that I find a dentist I feel comfortable with.

The dentist will want to assess if the condition of your teeth is due to neglect and/or physical trauma, and if the same issues are likely to occur after treatment. Finding a Dentist you feel comfortable with is important, but remember, your Dentist is not a social worker or psychiatrist and may be inclined to avoid providing treatment if they think the issue is psychological rather than dental, and dental treatment may not have the expected mental benefit the patient is looking for.

So I’ll sum this up, your Dentist will focus on his/her area of expertise, your teeth, the psychological element of your recovery may be aided by improvements to the condition/appearance of your teeth, but judging by what you posted, the issues are more complex, therefore other professional treatment may be needed. Irrespective of your life experience, you are unlikely to get a Dentist to allow payment by instalments after costly treatment has been provided.

Hilfe

Dav010 wrote: »

The dentist will want to assess if the condition of your teeth is due to neglect and/or physical trauma, and if the same issues are likely to occur after treatment. Finding a Dentist you feel comfortable with is important, but remember, your Dentist is not a social worker or psychiatrist and may be inclined to avoid providing treatment if they think the issue is psychological rather than dental, and dental treatment may not have the expected mental benefit the patient is looking for.

So I’ll sum this up, your Dentist will focus on his/her area of expertise, your teeth, the psychological element of your recovery may be aided by improvements to the condition/appearance of your teeth, but judging by what you posted, the issues are more complex, therefore other professional treatment may be needed. Irrespective of your life experience, you are unlikely to get a Dentist to allow payment by instalments after costly treatment has been provided.

I don't know if what you intend to communicate is coming out the same in written form.

I don't think a dentist is a psychologist nor do I think that they are going to treat trauma derived from childhood.

As I repeated many times on this thread I have a social worker and a psychiatrist. I attend counselling sessions.

I am in physical pain from my teeth and I carry scars around the gums and damaged teeth due to blunt force trauma. Walking around like this is causing me great distress.

It isn't unreasonable for anyone to assume that removing the cause of my distress will go some way to making me feel less distressed.

steddyeddy

Hilfe wrote: »

I don't know if what you intend to communicate is coming out the same in written form.

I don't think a dentist is a psychologist nor do I think that they are going to treat trauma derived from childhood.

As I repeated many times on this thread I have a social worker and a psychiatrist. I attend counselling sessions.

I am in physical pain from my teeth and I carry scars around the gums and damaged teeth due to blunt force trauma. Walking around like this is causing me great distress.

It isn't unreasonable for anyone to assume that removing the cause of my distress will go some way to making me feel less distressed.

I suggest you ignore things like that.

There is a clear, well documented relationship between perceived deformity and mental health. No one will judge you for talking about this in terms of mental health and if they do I suggest you look elsewhere. I would say that very few professionals would suggest you are confusing a dental health professional for a mental health professional.

You are also right to think that this should help your mental health. Again this is well established in the medical literature. A girl I worked with had a scar on her head from childhood abuse which affected her tremendously until she had scar revision surgery.

bb1234567

Sorry to hear about that OP, nothing worse than feeling like your appearance is holding you back from fully enjoying your life.

Seeing as you seem to feel you'll eventually be able to afford the expensive treatments once you're more settled in your career, maybe you could look into clip on verneers as a stop gap between now and that indefinite point in the future? They don't look amazing, and can look false if they are cheaply made, so aren't a good long term solution, but definitely better looking than teeth with severe issues, rotting or crookedness or gaps. Like, it will stop inciting disgust from others and you'll be able to smile again, at least. They are only a few hundred quid. Tonnes of different brands and producers, so I can't advise on that as I know very little , but sounds to me like it could be perfect for what you want at this moment in time.



https://www.theperfectsmile.co.uk/cosmetic-dentistry/smiles-2-suit-u/digital-smile-designing/snap-smile

steddyeddy

That's a great suggestion BB. I never heard of those. Maybe go for that OP.