Any comeback on a car?

Shadow22

Hi.
Wondering can anyone help?
I purchased a 2008 Renault grand scenic from a dealer july last year. The dealer seemed 100% and the car was as seen and appeared in good order.
The car had only been nctd a few days before purchased.
The issue I have is the car was rarely drove due to covid and when it was due a service the garage informed and showed me where the chassis was fibreglassed and welded and deemed the car unfit for the road.
Now the car was only 2500 which isn't a lot of money, but to us it is and the car was the only means of safe travel for a small family as a normal car wouldn't accommodate 3 car seats soon to be 4.
Is there anything I can do? Surely this should of been seen by the nct?
Any advice?

User1998

2008 car and purchased 9 months ago. No chance of any come back. It could have been welded only last month for all we know

punisher5112

Scrap it, or sell on but make seller aware....

Don't skimp on safety unless it's cheap to fix and make safe.

Odelay

Get a second opinion on it. This mechanic might be right on the ball, or overreacting over something that could be relatively minor.

Shadow22

User1998 wrote: »

2008 car and purchased 9 months ago. No chance of any come back. It could have been welded only last month for all we know

Understood..Its the principle that the car was given a fresh test and passed

fryup

the chassis was fibreglassed

any dealer who knowingly sells a car like that should be named & shamed!

and it still got its nct???

User1998

Shadow22 wrote: »

Understood..Its the principle that the car was given a fresh test and passed

Yeah I understand. The NCT won’t even listen to what you have to say about it, and the garage can just say that they sold it with a new NCT so the damage obviously happened after that point, unfortunately

Shadow22

User1998 wrote: »

Yeah I understand. The NCT won’t even listen to what you have to say about it, and the garage can just say that they sold it with a new NCT so the damage obviously happened after that point, unfortunately

Awful pain in the hole so it is..but sure as they say lesson learned.
Twice I got shafted with a car first a 2015 mondeo and then the 7 seater.
Obviously didn't learn enough 😆

BorneTobyWilde

Nothing wrong with cutting out a piece of rust and welding in a new piece. It's very easy and cheap to do.

Atlantic Dawn

Put it through the NCT now to see if it passes.

Shadow22

fryup wrote: »

any dealer who knowingly sells a car like that should be named & shamed!

and it still got its nct???

Nct isn't out till June. Its currently waiting to go to scrap yard. Garage that looked at it is my father in law and deemed it unsafe.

monkeybutter

Shadow22 wrote: »

Nct isn't out till June. Its currently waiting to go to scrap yard. Garage that looked at it is my father in law and deemed it unsafe.

You have a father in law with a garage, just get him to source a car for you, maybe with covid you couldn't

Shadow22

monkeybutter wrote: »

You have a father in law with a garage, just get him to source a car for you, maybe with covid you couldn't

Rubbing salt into the wounds 😆..only joking..he is just a mechanic, was isolating when I needed to buy. Buying out of a garage you would of taught would of been ok

monkeybutter

Shadow22 wrote: »

Rubbing salt into the wounds 😆..only joking..he is just a mechanic, was isolating when I needed to buy. Buying out of a garage you would of taught would of been ok

I'm just jealous, it's a handy thing to have

At that price point they aren't going to be putting much effort into checking the car, they just want to shift it on, I've seen some heaps, big things broken on the car that they clearly haven't even driven the car to check it work, blown turbos, error codes on dash, broken heaters etc

not to mind finding a repair someone deliberatly hid

I prefer to buy privately, but there's so many 1 man band cowboys selling as private it can be hard to find


What exactly was repaired with fibreglass?

Del2005

User1998 wrote: »

2008 car and purchased 9 months ago. No chance of any come back. It could have been welded only last month for all we know

The OP has comeback as they bought off a dealer, there's no age or value limit on a 2nd hand purchase and the time limit for an issue is the statute of limitations.

Buying from a garage or car dealer
When you buy a used car from a trader, you have a number of rights under Irish and EU law. Garages and car dealers must treat you fairly, whether they are selling from a business premises or online. They must make sure the car is safe

The 1st thing the OP should do is contact the dealer. If they are any good they'll take the car back and check it out to either repair, replace or refund.


The small claims procedure is an option. The limit is €2k but as the car was bought 9 months ago then they can say they are dropping €500 off the value for time they've owned it. The only problem with this is that if a company knowingly sells a dodgy car they know that there's little the OP can do even if they get a judgement in their favour.

wandererz

Next car, get the father in law to check out.

User1998

Del2005 wrote: »

The OP has comeback as they bought off a dealer

OP bought a 13 year old car, 9 months ago. They have little chance of recourse. The car was sold with a new NCT and OP has no proof that the damage was present when he bought the car. He could have crashed it last week for all we know.

The fact it was sold with a new NCT goes against the OP as it suggests the car was in road worthy condition at the time of sale.

By all means contact the dealer and try sort it, maybe they’ll be sound about it, but there is no evidence to suggest the damage was present when the car was bought

bazz26

I'd say most dealers selling 13 year old cars for 2500 wouldn't give you the time of day if coming back the following week with an issue, never mind 9 months later.

green123

I think the main point here is the nct.
The nct passed this car as roadworthy.

Should the nct not have seen this problem?

Are many cars with problem chassis getting through the nct?

Are cut and shut death traps getting through the nct?

bazz26

The main point is we don't know if the car is actually unroadworthy or not, all we have is the opinion of a 3rd party garage that the OP said they got the car serviced from.

green123

I am not really talking about this specific case.

I am more interested in general if many cars with serious chassis problems get through the nct?

I would have hoped that if a car had recently passed an nct that it would be structurally OK?

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

The OP has comeback as they bought off a dealer, there's no age or value limit on a 2nd hand purchase and the time limit for an issue is the statute of limitations.



The 1st thing the OP should do is contact the dealer. If they are any good they'll take the car back and check it out to either repair, replace or refund.


The small claims procedure is an option. The limit is €2k but as the car was bought 9 months ago then they can say they are dropping €500 off the value for time they've owned it. The only problem with this is that if a company knowingly sells a dodgy car they know that there's little the OP can do even if they get a judgement in their favour.

National Car Testing Service, on behalf of the Road Safety Authority deemed it safe to drive on public roads when sold, op’s FIL says it isn’t, I’m not sure what outcome you would expect from court proceedings or why the dealer would take it back.

kirving

NCT declaring it safe, does not mean that it is safe.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/nct-bribe-vehicles-crushed-by-rte-26743599.html

And vice versa for the other mechanic of course.

People put way too much faith in a 15 minute check.

Del2005

Dav010 wrote: »

National Car Testing Service, on behalf of the Road Safety Authority deemed it safe to drive on public roads when sold, op’s FIL says it isn’t, I’m not sure what outcome you would expect from court proceedings or why the dealer would take it back.

Plenty of posters here have gotten cars which they knew had serious issues past the NCT , they sent them in to see what else would fail to see if it was worth fixing and ended up with a pass cert. It's easy enough to hide issues with a car if you want for the NCT.

The car is potentially unsafe and the dealer is responsible for selling it, as per consumer law. How long ago it was bought*, it's age or price paid aren't mentioned anywhere in the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act.

I'd expect an honest dealer to take the car back and check it out to rectify the problem.

* the only time limit is the statute of limitations

green123

kirving/Del2005 I understand what you are saying and I remember the bribe scandal very well and of course some problems will be hidden before or missed during the test.

But in general I would have thought that most of the time serious chassis problems would be found and failed during an nct?

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

Plenty of posters here have gotten cars which they knew had serious issues past the NCT , they sent them in to see what else would fail to see if it was worth fixing and ended up with a pass cert. It's easy enough to hide issues with a car if you want for the NCT.

The car is potentially unsafe and the dealer is responsible for selling it, as per consumer law. How long ago it was bought*, it's age or price paid aren't mentioned anywhere in the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act.

I'd expect an honest dealer to take the car back and check it out to rectify the problem.

* the only time limit is the statute of limitations

The dealer sold a car which has been certified safe, can they do more? I suspect all 13 yr old cars have the potential to be unsafe, that does not mean they are. As another poster said, it is not inconceivable that at that age, some repairs were necessary, obviously the NCT centre inspection didn’t find issue with them.

Bigus

Give the selling dealer a chance to rectify the situation, he’s not going to give a refund , but he might do something. He certainly won’t do anything if not even approached .

swoofer

or then threatened with a claims via small claims.

bazz26

If only it was that simple.

User1998

Quoting the sale of goods act is all well and good but in reality OP hasn’t a leg to stand on

(not directed at you OP)

kirving

Dav010 wrote: »

The dealer sold a car which has been certified safe, can they do more?

The bar for a dealer selling a safe/unsafe car is not the NCT though.

They have an additional responsibility to ensure that they do not knowingly sell an unsafe car.

kirving

kirving wrote: »

The bar for a dealer selling a safe/unsafe car is not the NCT though.

They have an additional responsibility to ensure that they do not knowingly sell an unsafe car.

Exactly.

ba_barabus

Any pictures of what we're talking about here? Fiberglass seems an incredibly odd choice to repair a chassis.

Del2005

User1998 wrote: »

Quoting the sale of goods act is all well and good but in reality OP hasn’t a leg to stand on

(not directed at you OP)

Where in the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act does it say that the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on?

Even citizens information makes it clear that a dealer has to supply a safe car.

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

Where in the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act does it say that the OP doesn't have a leg to stand on?

Even citizens information makes it clear that a dealer has to supply a safe car.

And the Dealer no doubt will claim they did, and have a valid NCT to confirm it’s road worthiness. So it is up to the op to prove otherwise.

User1998

Exactly. Unfortunately OP can’t prove that the car was unroadworthy when he bought it therefore his argument will never hold up in court.

We don’t even know if the car is unroadworthy, a mechanic just gave their opinion on it thats all