NCT failed seat Ibiza on emissions

nick1984

Hi guys can anyone sus this issue out i picked up a 2008 seat ibiza 1.2 for very small money

now it went for an nct 19/4/2021 not brought by me by previous owner
failed on a few silly bits number plates/cv boots/battery mounting the worrying part was it had was emissions test not done excessive smoke but ive had the car running for a while been driving it I don't see any excessive smoke coming from the car oil level and coolant level are fine

here's the exhaust emissions readout from the nct print out


Low idle CO 0.88%vol above 30%
(950) rpm HC 130ppm above 0ppm

High idle Lambda 1.57 not between 0.97 and 1.03
(950) rpm CO 0.88 vol% above 0.20%
HC 130 ppm above 200ppm

does this make any sense to anyone are they ok or is there a problem no all the checks beside are marked N/D did they just not do the emissions test because it was noted of excessive smoke could that been that someone topped the car up with too much oil

any help appreciated

greasepalm

Presume its the 3 cyl model as they are soft engines and do burn oil when oil level was let drop too low.

Carbon build up on ex pipe at rear and a burning smell and light blue vapour might suggest its burning oil.

Have you been checking oil on dipstick.

Smoke will clog up diagnostic machine if left inside the pipe.

What is air filter like clogged or clean.

Remove plugs and look at the tips will also show oil fouling.

Checking engine oil on dipstick is important as too much will damage the cat.

Toyotafanboi

Lambda reading is through the roof. If the engine is running well i'd be checking for an exhaust leak first. Is the front flexi ripped?

greasepalm

Would be noticable when starting from cold exhaust sound is higher , brings back memories on the fiat 127 ripper.

nick1984

greasepalm wrote: »

Presume its the 3 cyl model as they are soft engines and do burn oil when oil level was let drop too low.

Carbon build up on ex pipe at rear and a burning smell and light blue vapour might suggest its burning oil.

Have you been checking oil on dipstick.

Smoke will clog up diagnostic machine if left inside the pipe.

What is air filter like clogged or clean.

Remove plugs and look at the tips will also show oil fouling.

Checking engine oil on dipstick is important as too much will damage the cat.

yeah its a 3 cylinder ill have a better look at the exhaust. The exhaust at back is sooty looking but so is my mk4 golf 1.4 i don't see any vapour from exhaust i did have the car running for a good while the only thing i see was some steam from the exhaust like condensation and the exhaust was dripping water probably a build up in the back box as it hasn't been driven is ages and been lying up... I haven't looked at filter yet and ill be taking the plugs out later on to inspect them

im thinking that last comment you made seems like what's happened the oil level was low someone topped it up a bit too much its damaged the cat as you said and now the emissions are all out of whack now

nick1984

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Lambda reading is through the roof. If the engine is running well i'd be checking for an exhaust leak first. Is the front flexi ripped?

engine seems to be running very well good take off no smoke when flooring it i looked at the exhaust it looks fine flexi looks good but ill have to put car on ramps start it and inspect the whole exhaust

greasepalm

Plugs are great for telling the story and you can look into the cylinder to see if its wet or dry , wet meaning too much oil and plug would be fouled.

Flexie is easy to see issues with black soot at source and can snap with too much torque from engine at standing still to flooring is , caused by too much movement in engine backwards a and forwards

nick1984

ive had it running for about 2 hrs now and it seems to have now started miss firing when i rev it so im waiting for my laptop to charge up enough and see if it has any faults and check the emissions status of it ill leave it cool down and pull the plugs see whats going on there

greasepalm

When you said misfire was this on tick over and engine wobbled more than usual and righted itself?.

If it righted itself for a short time might be valves and guides.

Dead miss plug fouled / coil

nick1984

greasepalm wrote: »

When you said misfire was this on tick over and engine wobbled more than usual and righted itself?.

If it righted itself for a short time might be valves and guides.

Dead miss plug fouled / coil

i had it running for a good bit to get the engine hot went to give it a slight rev to see if theres any smoke from exhaust as that has me completely baffled theres no smoke steam and it rev like it was missing ive left it now for a while im going to start it again and see if the misfire is still there

im starting to think this was cheap for a reason as the engines had it

jmreire

nick1984 wrote: »

i had it running for a good bit to get the engine hot went to give it a slight rev to see if theres any smoke from exhaust as that has me completely baffled theres no smoke steam and it rev like it was missing ive left it now for a while im going to start it again and see if the misfire is still there

im starting to think this was cheap for a reason as the engines had it

Any chance of getting it scanned, and see what codes will show up?

nick1984

jmreire wrote: »

Any chance of getting it scanned, and see what codes will show up?

threw code 16687 (misfire cylinder three) swapped around the coil and fault still was present pulled the plug black and oily looking and the centre core was fully crammed with carbon build up didn't look like the plug(s) had been changed in some time

jmreire

nick1984 wrote: »

threw code 16687 (misfire cylinder three) swapped around the coil and fault still was present pulled the plug black and oily looking and the centre core was fully crammed with carbon build up didn't look like the plug(s) had been changed in some time

And after you replaced the plug, and ran the engine, how did it go? Did you scan it again?

CoBo55

Compression test will tell you the engine is fcuked, they're an absolute ball of junk, don't even attempt to repair it as it will have you in the poor house. If it's an otherwise decent car your best bet is to get another engine.

nick1984

jmreire wrote: »

And after you replaced the plug, and ran the engine, how did it go? Did you scan it again?

cleaned the plug with carb cleaner and a soft plastic brush and fired right up no EML light scanned it for codes all clear no faults

nick1984

CoBo55 wrote: »

Compression test will tell you the engine is fcuked, they're an absolute ball of junk, don't even attempt to repair it as it will have you in the poor house. If it's an otherwise decent car your best bet is to get another engine.

I would do one only I don't have a compression tester tbh when i drove car home car drove absolutely spot on was nippy no rattles or anything drove really well like a new car tbh.. i might see if i can get a lend of a compression tester and do a test on it does anyone know what roughly these should be putting out in terms of figures

CoBo55

No3 will be lower than the other two cylinders as 99 times out of 100 the rings are shot. Work colleague put an absolute fortune into his engine but it never ran properly for more than a few miles, in the end he got a replacement engine from a breakers which is still running perfectly.

Toyotafanboi

I think you might be barking up the wrong tree here a bit and fixing a symptom and not the cause. Your hydrocarbon result is good and your carbon monoxide is only a little bit out, probably as a result of whatever is causing the disasteously bad lambda reading. The lambda is so bad IMO that if something electrical or mechanical was causing it, the engine would struggle to run, so the most logical think to me then would be an exhuast leak of some kind. If you are out around the car, humour me and start the car, go behind it and stuff a rag up the tail pipe and hold it there firmly and see does that car cut out or struggle to run. It should, if it doesn't and keeps running sweet, we are on to something.

greasepalm

If rings are shot it should be a wet cylinder and fouled plug.

Compression test can be misleading if issue with rotating valve with worn guides.

Yes can be expensive.

nick1984

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I think you might be barking up the wrong tree here a bit and fixing a symptom and not the cause. Your hydrocarbon result is good and your carbon monoxide is only a little bit out, probably as a result of whatever is causing the disasteously bad lambda reading. The lambda is so bad IMO that if something electrical or mechanical was causing it, the engine would struggle to run, so the most logical think to me then would be an exhuast leak of some kind. If you are out around the car, humour me and start the car, go behind it and stuff a rag up the tail pipe and hold it there firmly and see does that car cut out or struggle to run. It should, if it doesn't and keeps running sweet, we are on to something.

im going to grab three plugs tomorrow an air filter and see if they have a lambda sensor as well
I had the car running and I placed my palm over the exhaust tip forcing it to seal it hissed like mad from the tip but when i took my hand away there was some pressure behind it big pop when i took my hand away

nick1984

CoBo55 wrote: »

No3 will be lower than the other two cylinders as 99 times out of 100 the rings are shot. Work colleague put an absolute fortune into his engine but it never ran properly for more than a few miles, in the end he got a replacement engine from a breakers which is still running perfectly.

im going to get a lend of a compression tester tomorrow ill throw the results up up here

nick1984

greasepalm wrote: »

If rings are shot it should be a wet cylinder and fouled plug.

Compression test can be misleading if issue with rotating valve with worn guides.

Yes can be expensive.

the 3 cylinder plug I pulled was rather black but what amazed me more was the tiny gap around the ceramic in the middle of the plug was blocked up as well I think these plugs have seen better days

greasepalm

Blocked up by not able to burn off the oil , were the plugs Bosch?

We used NGK which last longer against oil foul up.

nick1984

greasepalm wrote: »

Blocked up by not able to burn off the oil , were the plugs Bosch?

We used NGK which last longer against oil foul up.

I didn't look tbh i only use ngk on my golf 1.4

greasepalm

Ha Ha good old NGK.

Lambda probes are expensive , yes to plugs , is air filter manky and worth looking around engine at vacuum pipes.

CoBo55

nick1984 wrote: »

the 3 cylinder plug I pulled was rather black but what amazed me more was the tiny gap around the ceramic in the middle of the plug was blocked up as well I think these plugs have seen better days

That's the oil getting into the combustion chamber and fouling the plug. Please don't start spending money on it as it's just not worth it. My work colleague stopped spending (borrowed money) when it reached €600. He got an engine for €300 and a relation of his put it in, all in all it cost him well over €1000, he owned the car from new so it was worth it eventually.

CoBo55

greasepalm wrote: »

If rings are shot it should be a wet cylinder and fouled plug.

Compression test can be misleading if issue with rotating valve with worn guides.

Yes can be expensive.

It will start at valves requiring a head rebuild and pressure test but it won't cure it, then a timing chain, then the engine out to do the rings....

nick1984

greasepalm wrote: »

Ha Ha good old NGK.

Lambda probes are expensive , yes to plugs , is air filter manky and worth looking around engine at vacuum pipes.

ive deplhi diagnostics software i should able to rear what the lambda is doing i think plug will be got in the morning along with a filter ill have a proper look ove the vacumm pipes

nick1984

CoBo55 wrote: »

That's the oil getting into the combustion chamber and fouling the plug. Please don't start spending money on it as it's just not worth it. My work colleague stopped spending (borrowed money) when it reached €600. He got an engine for €300 and a relation of his put it in, all in all it cost him well over €1000, he owned the car from new so it was worth it eventually.

the car stands me 500 euro its 2008 with cheap road tax bracket and is fairly clean wants a valet but drives very well

CoBo55

nick1984 wrote: »

ive deplhi diagnostics software i should able to rear what the lambda is doing i think plug will be got in the morning along with a filter ill have a proper look ove the vacumm pipes

Just buy plugs and leave the filter out if it's that manky.

nick1984

CoBo55 wrote: »

Just buy plugs and leave the filter out if it's that manky.

ill put it out tomorrow and see what its like if its anything like the plug it will wanna be changed