Weed membrane to replace black bags on this patch?

Denalihighway

Hi guys n gals,

This is my first post in this forum so apologies in advance for newbie nonsense.
I have a couple of patches in the garden where the previous occupier put down these black bags - to stop weeds I imagine.

Not my cup of tea to say the least, so I'm thinking of grabbing some membrane to replace it with. I've looked at some prices and what's available in the local DIY / garden centres - I'd buy in a proper garden centre if I could obv.

The only thing growing here which I'd like to keep are those lilies which are nice.
I reckon I might put some woodchips down like they did over the membrane but I haven't made up my mind about that.

But back to the membrane - is this the right route to go?

And would there be any do's and don'ts on what to use?

(Jaysus its been ages since I uploaded a pic on Boards :pac:) - coming soon as soon as figure the bloody thing out...)
https://ibb.co/pfnRLwh
(gave up trying to embed it..)

Any advice greatly appreciated.

looksee

No pic.

looksee

Its hard to be sure from a pic but that does appear to be plastic as against membrane, which is not the right stuff at all. I am not an enthusiast of membrane either, except for under paths and similar. I'd be inclined to take out the black stuff, tidy up the weeds and just put bark-mulch on it. You will have to weed it occasionally but for the appearance doing that is preferable to the membrane.

Membrane can become a mass of weed roots, especially convolvulus (bindweed) and scutch, which then force their way out through gaps for plants, making it difficult to remove them, or round the edges, which disturbs the membrane. Bark mulch then tends to move into little heaps and hollows leaving bare membrane.

Denalihighway

looksee wrote: »

Its hard to be sure from a pic but that does appear to be plastic as against membrane, which is not the right stuff at all. I am not an enthusiast of membrane either, except for under paths and similar. I'd be inclined to take out the black stuff, tidy up the weeds and just put bark-mulch on it. You will have to weed it occasionally but for the appearance doing that is preferable to the membrane.

Membrane can become a mass of weed roots, especially convolvulus (bindweed) and scutch, which then force their way out through gaps for plants, making it difficult to remove them, or round the edges, which disturbs the membrane. Bark mulch then tends to move into little heaps and hollows leaving bare membrane.

Hey thanks a mill for that
Well that certainly sounds like a much more convenient alternative.
Yeah the black bags were a 'strange' approach - but there were many quirks I inherited in the house let's say
Appreciate that.
I can see what you mean about the build up of weeds etc - its like they seem to build up and gather steam under the membrane, like a volcano ready to erupt.

Denalihighway

These bad boys are all over the place under the plastic.
But they seem to be the only one really apart from a bit of grass and other shoots sporadically around the place.

I actually can't quite tell if they are connected / associated with the lilies roots etc - any ideas?

They come easily so I'm clearing them out.

https://ibb.co/w4RsxqZ

standardg60

Denalihighway wrote: »

These bad boys are all over the place under the plastic.
But they seem to be the only one really apart from a bit of grass and other shoots sporadically around the place.

I actually can't quite tell if they are connected / associated with the lilies roots etc - any ideas?

They come easily so I'm clearing them out.

https://ibb.co/w4RsxqZ

Pretty psychic from Looksee! That's all bindweed OP, and will require a rather long process of elimination. Pull out as much as you can, but as it regrows from the tiniest fragment spot treatment of any new shoots with systemic weedkiller will be needed.

Denalihighway

standardg60 wrote: »

Pretty psychic from Looksee! That's all bindweed OP, and will require a rather long process of elimination. Pull out as much as you can, but as it regrows from the tiniest fragment spot treatment of any new shoots with systemic weedkiller will be needed.

Thanks.
Got most of it, pulled what I could as carefully as I could and got down as far as I could, but yes there's a helluva lot of it.
Sprayed all the affected areas with weedkiller.

So the consensus would be to not go with a membrane for the moment?

My uneducated gardener head would ask - I guess it's not a silver bullet solution - but would a membrane be better than no membrane at all for this? Will I not just have all those guys coming up through the mulch in no time?

Many thanks

standardg60

Denalihighway wrote: »

Thanks.
Got most of it, pulled what I could as carefully as I could and got down as far as I could, but yes there's a helluva lot of it.
Sprayed all the affected areas with weedkiller.

So the consensus would be to not go with a membrane for the moment?

My uneducated gardener head would ask - I guess it's not a silver bullet solution - but would a membrane be better than no membrane at all for this? Will I not just have all those guys coming up through the mulch in no time?

Many thanks

Yes no membrane, you need to treat wherever it appears, a membrane would just allow it to continue to spread.

The Continental Op

I think the membrane has done some good. Its brought all the bindweed growth to the surface and made it dead easy to get rid of masses of it. The bindweed is the problem not any membrane.

I'd put down waterever you like and treat any bindweed that comes up on a weekly bases with a carfully painted on mix of roundup and wallpaper paste.

Denalihighway

standardg60 wrote: »

Yes no membrane, you need to treat wherever it appears, a membrane would just allow it to continue to spread.

Lashed into it earlier.
https://ibb.co/92pHw44

Manky job, as I discovered, the cats and possibly foxes seem to have made it their commode at various points...but I'll look after that in due course too.
Very satisfying though.
I was hoping to discover some green fingers...no time like it at the moment

Cool - thanks , and thanks all

Denalihighway

PS...I was going to post separately about the fungus on the tree...

Need to look into that.
I suspect this tree isn't doing so well

fryup

does weed membrane stop weeds 100% ?

cause i have a few sprouting up in places where i layed membrane last year?

magicbastarder

it doesn't. it's counterproductive n my experience (echoing what looksee mentioned above). we haven't used it in 15 years, if you top dress it with any sort of mulch, seeds will generate in the mulch anyway and root through the membrane, and the membrance will make it harder to remove them.

The Continental Op

Are the weeds coming through the membrane or growing in mulch or crap on the top of the membrane. Weeds will obviously come up in any gaps and around where you have cut holes for you plants.

I use a layer cardboard and 5-6 cms of mulch on top in my beds and it works well for me.

phormium

Huge fan of old carpet myself! Face down and bark or gravel over it, you have to position it around plants obviously or cut and plant into it but weeds do not manage to get their roots down through it like they do with the membrane.

I prefer gravel to bark even though I like the look of bark but the birds scatter it out onto grass and driveway gravel, I have carpet under gravel for years and you get the occasional weed at joins that might not have been overlapped well but other than that nothing!

fryup

fryup wrote: »

does weed membrane stop weeds 100% ?

cause i have a few sprouting up in places where i layed membrane last year?

The Continental Op wrote: »

Are the weeds coming through the membrane or growing in mulch or crap on the top of the membrane. Weeds will obviously come up in any gaps and around where you have cut holes for you plants.

its a gravel bed, with a good inch of gravel layed and yet in spot we have weeds (mainly dandelion) sprouting through in areas far from other plants

looksee

If the weeds are just sprouting out of the gravel they should come up pretty easily. If they are sturdy looking and hard to pull out there is a possibility they have penetrated the membrane, or there was a seam that has been disturbed. Pull the gravel away from the spot and see what the story is. There is a good deal of difference in quality of membrane, some of the cheaper ones don't suppress much at all.

griffdaddy

I recently cleared out a bed in the front garden and had bare soil with the intention of laying down membrane to stop the weeds coming through. Unfortunately as mentioned above once it was bare soil the local cats started using it as their jaxx. I've picked up some agressive ground plants now to cover it over instead. By all accounts they'll keep the weeds hidden when they spread out

fryup

looksee wrote: »

There is a good deal of difference in quality of membrane, some of the cheaper ones don't suppress much at all.

i presume the heavier the better? that light felt stuff wouldn't be up to much in the long run

looksee

I'm not sure tbh, I haven't bought any in ages - though coincidentally I have to get a roll today as I want to line some paths in the veg garden. I presume heavier the better, my experience was when one contractor put in a light one under gravel and another put in a 'professional' one under more gravel and the weed difference was striking. I suspect the second job was better done altogether though. The best job was one where a good 4 inches of soil was dug out and well compacted hardcore was put in. The only weeds that grew in that area were a few round the edges and under a tree where spilled soil from the beds or leaves from the tree created a growing medium in the gravel, they were very easy to pull though.

Tip - right from the start, if you are working on flower beds adjacent to gravel, put down a tarp where you are working to stop soil spilling into the gravel, saves a lot of aggravation later.

fryup

fryup wrote: »

i presume the heavier the better? that light felt stuff wouldn't be up to much in the long run

There's a brand called Mypex that was recommended to me by a landscaper. I've used it on a play area under mulch and so far so good.

looksee

Yes I believe that is the best of them, thanks for reminding me, that's what I will get. If they have it.

The Continental Op

The problem is that Mypex has become the genric name for weed membrane so asking for Mypex might mean you get whatever weed membrane is available. Mypex is a woven material normally with white lines down the length of it possibly because it was originally used in nurseries for standing pots out and the lines allowed you to line the pots up more easily?

cuculainn

The Continental Op wrote: »

The problem is that Mypex has become the genric name for weed membrane so asking for Mypex might mean you get whatever weed membrane is available. Mypex is a woven material normally with white lines down the length of it possibly because it was originally used in nurseries for standing pots out and the lines allowed you to line the pots up more easily?

What i hate about all those types of weed barriers is that when you cut them the strands of plastic come loose and show up everywhere. obviously only an issue if you cut it but dont often get away with out cutting.

I have started using the barrier that is more a fabric so that when you cut it doesnt unravel....although i only use it on paths/walkways

The Continental Op

The Continental Op wrote: »

The problem is that Mypex has become the genric name for weed membrane so asking for Mypex might mean you get whatever weed membrane is available. Mypex is a woven material normally with white lines down the length of it possibly because it was originally used in nurseries for standing pots out and the lines allowed you to line the pots up more easily?

It should be branded if you look closely. I had a nursery try to pawn off something called Hypex on me but I went elsewhere and got the actual product I was after.

The Continental Op

cuculainn wrote: »

What i hate about all those types of weed barriers is that when you cut them the strands of plastic come loose and show up everywhere. obviously only an issue if you cut it but dont often get away with out cutting.

I have started using the barrier that is more a fabric so that when you cut it doesnt unravel....although i only use it on paths/walkways

Fold the cut ends under? What I do is cut with an old high wattage soldering iron which helps seal the ends.

looksee

In the end I didn't have a choice. The stuff I got looks like Mypex but its not, good and heavy though, should do the job.

fryup

if you want to go down the recycle mode.....you could use old compost bags as membrane

The Continental Op

fryup wrote: »

if you want to go down the recycle mode.....you could use old compost bags as membrane

Coal sacks are quite good and normally porus.

One thing I find useful are ground staples which I now buy, like these https://www.amazon.co.uk/GardenPrime-Galvanised-Securing-Artificial-Protected/dp/B081TF196L/ . I used to make my own out of heavy straining wire but lifes to short.