Solictor Recommendation? Trying to get a refund for a faulty car from dealership

gmannix1000

Hi,

Wondering if anyone could provide a recommendation for a solicitor who can help me. Bought a secondhand car for 8k from a dealership which was faulty back in March. They agreed to repair and fault is occuring now again and we've asked for a refund. They are ignoring our emails/calls so will likely need a to get a solicitor involved. They are not part of SIMI.

Just wondering if anyone has any recommendations on a reasonably priced solicitor who may have experience and could assist?

C3PO

I would exhaust all other options before engaging a solicitor. Once you do, there is a real possibility that the garage will then completely ignore you and the solicitor. Then you have no choice but to go to go to court. You will probably get a judgement but there is no guarantee of getting your money even then. A garage that is trading without SIMI membership is probably well used to customer complaints! The solicitor will need to be paid either way.

gmannix1000

I don't think I have any other options as they're already ignoring me?

RossieMan

gmannix1000 wrote:

I don't think I have any other options as they're already ignoring me?

Go to the garage perhaps? Very easy to hide behind calls and emails.

bilbot79

Following

JustAThought

gmannix1000 wrote: »

I don't think I have any other options as they're already ignoring me?

Definately not a solicotor - you will end up paying thousands more and still being in the sMe
place. Every letter will cost you a couple of hundred in ‘meetings and fees’ and they can just ignore you - as you run up bills they will never be liable fir.

Get onto the consumer association of Ireland by phone - they will advise you on what your legal satnding is - they’re free - and they will research the relevant but (s) of leglislation and they have templates of letters you can use to write. I think its called the CCCP or similar nowadays - I can’t keep up with their namechanging.

Ruless for second hand cars are different to ‘normal’ consumer protection law for eg fridges or wooly jumpers.

Also is the dealer registered as a company? Are they registered at all? Are there annual accounts filed? Are they trading as a sole trader in which case if they own property that can be leveraged as collateral against them. Often a nod towards revenue might help focus their thoughts - if they are trading illegally it might not be worth their while to fight you over 8k if it might alert revenue to their activities. Maybe you can mention getting in contact with revenue in telation to their activities next time you talk/ voicemail. Might soften their cough. I always find it triggers a reply. Company regristration office might help you.

Someone here mentioned the umbrella organisation for car dealers. They have their own codes and practices. Are they registered with them? Probably not - and its a members club but they might like to keep their house clean and seen to be acting in good faith. Might be worth calling or looking up too.

Lots to play with. Don’t go near a solicitor - they always win - even when you lose.

C3PO

The Small Claims Court might be an option? No need for a solicitor then.

gmannix1000

C3PO wrote: »

The Small Claims Court might be an option? No need for a solicitor then.

Only for claims up to 2.5k, not a runner unfortunately.

gmannix1000

JustAThought wrote: »

Definately not a solicotor - you will end up paying thousands more and still being in the sMe
place. Every letter will cost you a couple of hundred in ‘meetings and fees’ and they can just ignore you - as you run up bills they will never be liable fir.

Get onto the consumer association of Ireland by phone - they will advise you on what your legal satnding is - they’re free - and they will research the relevant but (s) of leglislation and they have templates of letters you can use to write. I think its called the CCCP or similar nowadays - I can’t keep up with their namechanging.

Ruless for second hand cars are different to ‘normal’ consumer protection law for eg fridges or wooly jumpers.

Also is the dealer registered as a company? Are they registered at all? Are there annual accounts filed? Are they trading as a sole trader in which case if they own property that can be leveraged as collateral against them. Often a nod towards revenue might help focus their thoughts - if they are trading illegally it might not be worth their while to fight you over 8k if it might alert revenue to their activities. Maybe you can mention getting in contact with revenue in telation to their activities next time you talk/ voicemail. Might soften their cough. I always find it triggers a reply. Company regristration office might help you.

Someone here mentioned the umbrella organisation for car dealers. They have their own codes and practices. Are they registered with them? Probably not - and its a members club but they might like to keep their house clean and seen to be acting in good faith. Might be worth calling or looking up too.

Lots to play with. Don’t go near a solicitor - they always win - even when you lose.

Thanks for that. I've been in touch with CCPC, Citizens Information and FLAC, who recommended sending a letter asking for a refund and if no contact, then legal action will be the only alternative.

Yes, registered as a company but not a member of SIMI. Checked this also. Lesson learned for next time I buy a car.

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

Definately not a solicotor - you will end up paying thousands more and still being in the sMe
place. Every letter will cost you a couple of hundred in ‘meetings and fees’ and they can just ignore you - as you run up bills they will never be liable fir.

Get onto the consumer association of Ireland by phone - they will advise you on what your legal satnding is - they’re free - and they will research the relevant but (s) of leglislation and they have templates of letters you can use to write. I think its called the CCCP or similar nowadays - I can’t keep up with their namechanging.

Ruless for second hand cars are different to ‘normal’ consumer protection law for eg fridges or wooly jumpers.

Also is the dealer registered as a company? Are they registered at all? Are there annual accounts filed? Are they trading as a sole trader in which case if they own property that can be leveraged as collateral against them. Often a nod towards revenue might help focus their thoughts - if they are trading illegally it might not be worth their while to fight you over 8k if it might alert revenue to their activities. Maybe you can mention getting in contact with revenue in telation to their activities next time you talk/ voicemail. Might soften their cough. I always find it triggers a reply. Company regristration office might help you.

Someone here mentioned the umbrella organisation for car dealers. They have their own codes and practices. Are they registered with them? Probably not - and its a members club but they might like to keep their house clean and seen to be acting in good faith. Might be worth calling or looking up too.

Lots to play with. Don’t go near a solicitor - they always win - even when you lose.

Ah here, you line out some the amount of work involved in preparing a case like this for trial (checking accounts, checking the law governing the transaction etc) and then finish with a line more or less saying whoever does that work doesn't deserve to be paid for their work... bizarre. You don't mention the need to draft the proceedings, possibly arrange for the car to be assessed and ultimately negotiate with the other side etc but all that takes time too.

Anyway OP, it's against the forum charter to recommend a solicitor here but if you ring around a few firms where you live you'll get an idea of the cost.

Alternatively, because of the sum involved you might consider drafting the necessary district court proceedings yourself. The Courts website has templates for it but you'll need to line up the evidence you intend to rely on before you submit it, afaik you need to list it on the Summons. Then there's specific procedures to follow (what stamp duty needs to paid on the Summons etc, what date it should be submitted for, posting by registered post etc) that the District Court Clerk can (sometimes) help you with.

As pointed out above, another problem you'll face is even if you win, it's hard to get some people to pay their debts.

hullaballoo

There are quite a few issues with the below post. We will start with the fact that being brutally honest, vanishingly few solicitors take on Consumer complaints. There is no money in it, it's always small fry stuff and usually it's more complicated than it's worth.

JustAThought wrote: »

Definately not a solicotor - you will end up paying thousands more and still being in the sMe
place. Every letter will cost you a couple of hundred in ‘meetings and fees’ and they can just ignore you - as you run up bills they will never be liable fir.

For consumer law, you're looking at district court scale fees. The fees are limited per the value of the claim at an all in figure for all work done. This is not an area where big bucks are sought or gained by solicitors.

Get onto the consumer association of Ireland by phone - they will advise you on what your legal satnding is - they’re free - and they will research the relevant but (s) of leglislation and they have templates of letters you can use to write. I think its called the CCCP or similar nowadays - I can’t keep up with their namechanging.

The CCPC have a standard response to tell you to go to SIMI. More on that below.

Ruless for second hand cars are different to ‘normal’ consumer protection law for eg fridges or wooly jumpers.

No they aren't. All the usual consumer protection laws apply to consumers buying second hand cars, first hand cars, second hand icecream cones, you name it. Once they meet the definition of consumer, they are protected by consumer protection laws. The type of business they are dealing with is irrelevant. The misunderstanding presumably stems from the fact that when buying a second hand care in a private sale i.e. not from a business, the ordinary contract rules of caveat emptor apply. Not so if it's a car dealership. They do rely on this misconception wrongly because it suits them clearly.

Also is the dealer registered as a company? Are they registered at all? Are there annual accounts filed? Are they trading as a sole trader in which case if they own property that can be leveraged as collateral against them. Often a nod towards revenue might help focus their thoughts - if they are trading illegally it might not be worth their while to fight you over 8k if it might alert revenue to their activities. Maybe you can mention getting in contact with revenue in telation to their activities next time you talk/ voicemail. Might soften their cough. I always find it triggers a reply. Company regristration office might help you.

a) If they are tax compliant they won't care b) If they are cowboys and not tax compliant they won't care.

Someone here mentioned the umbrella organisation for car dealers. They have their own codes and practices. Are they registered with them? Probably not - and its a members club but they might like to keep their house clean and seen to be acting in good faith. Might be worth calling or looking up too.

SIMI are a motor trade lobby group. They offer a dispute resolution service that I will for the sake of good manner describe as dubious at best. They are the very definition of vested interests looking after their own. I've never seen them resolve a consumer complaint in anything approaching a legally sound way.

Lots to play with. Don’t go near a solicitor - they always win - even when you lose.

If you manage to find a solicitor to take on a consumer protection case - and good luck with that - they won't be taking much of a "win" even if you win.

bs2014

How did you fair out? Did you end up finding a solicitor, if so can you DM who you recommend.

I am in a similar position only the car is alot more expensive and alot newer. Just for the record, the SIMI complaints process is rubbish and they are very clearly dealer aligned even in the most obvious of cases.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119195425#Comment_119195425

SIMI are a trade group who lobby the government, they are not a consumer organisation. But they have done a good job fooling people into thinking they are something they aren't.

bs2014

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199759#Comment_119199759

That's my frustration. It seems there is actually 'nobody' policing garage corruption and reprimanded these boys. I mean the CCPC are just a call centre offering generic advice. They do have a criminal enforcement division but I'd say its rare a case gets there.

Go to the manufacturer of the car? They are only concerned if its a brand new car bought off them, otherwise they wont want to know. anyways they are gonna bat for the dealer in question since he sells 100s of cars a year for them.

Most solicitors don't want to take on cases and dealers know this. Easier work and bigger wins for solicitors to do wills and personal injury claims all day long.

Motor journalists who should be the voice and ears of consumers don't also reply. They too don't want to blot their copy book with dealers and afraid they could be taken up for defamation even though they'd be only stating the facts.

Equally, if the dealer is as corrupt in so far as to let things go to court, just cuz a court judgement may be awarded to you, getting paid will be another fight to contend wit

So therein lies the problem, we have a system that is afraid of the big bad guy in the suit in the dealership, and the man who owns the dealership knows this and knows he can get away with murder. Its very easy for the man in the dealership to sit back throw the feet in the air and let the consumer run ragged going from solicitor to simi to ccpc etc etc