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Solar Installation Rip off when grants are available?

  • 03-05-2021 2:34am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8 portbilly


    Just thought I'd post this out- there for readers comments.
    In general I believe that when government offer subsidies/grants that the provider ends up fleecing the recipient in the guise that there is a government grant available mitigating the cost.
    Case study, was researching cost of 60 tube evacuated solar tube system installation only.
    , no new cylinder required, got a quote from reputable company, 60km away, 7k Inc vat, less govt grant, €1200 so 5,800. I can source the exact same system less installation for 2,500 from well known Irish company, so installer gets 4.5K for less than a day's work for 2 tradesmen only, I know there is scaffolding
    insurance etc dormer building and max 300 extra in parts, but this is excessive. Is it rip off Ireland at its best I don't mind paying for good job but hate the idea of being fleeced, or is it a case of these people 'making hay while sun shines' excuse the pun.
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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 229 ✭✭ E30M3


    portbilly wrote: »
    Just thought I'd post this out- there for readers comments.
    In general I believe that when government offer subsidies/grants that the provider ends up fleecing the recipient in the guise that there is a government grant available mitigating the cost.
    Case study, was researching cost of 60 tube evacuated solar tube system installation only.
    , no new cylinder required, got a quote from reputable company, 60km away, 7k Inc vat, less govt grant, €1200 so 5,800. I can source the exact same system less installation for 2,500 from well known Irish company, so installer gets 4.5K for less than a day's work for 2 tradesmen only, I know there is scaffolding
    insurance etc dormer building and max 300 extra in parts, but this is excessive. Is it rip off Ireland at its best I don't mind paying for good job but hate the idea of being fleeced, or is it a case of these people 'making hay while sun shines' excuse the pun.


    Please look at Solar PV rather than Solar Thermal. Much more flexible and buy right and you will have a great system at a fair price.

    Read up on the Domwstic Quotes 2020 thread, mine of valuable info.


  • Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭ Biker1


    portbilly wrote: »
    Just thought I'd post this out- there for readers comments.
    In general I believe that when government offer subsidies/grants that the provider ends up fleecing the recipient in the guise that there is a government grant available mitigating the cost.
    Case study, was researching cost of 60 tube evacuated solar tube system installation only.
    , no new cylinder required, got a quote from reputable company, 60km away, 7k Inc vat, less govt grant, €1200 so 5,800. I can source the exact same system less installation for 2,500 from well known Irish company, so installer gets 4.5K for less than a day's work for 2 tradesmen only, I know there is scaffolding
    insurance etc dormer building and max 300 extra in parts, but this is excessive. Is it rip off Ireland at its best I don't mind paying for good job but hate the idea of being fleeced, or is it a case of these people 'making hay while sun shines' excuse the pun.

    I'm afraid you are correct. Numerous quotes I have seen for solar water, PV and heat pumps indicate a huge mark-up if the grants are availed of.
    e.g. Quote of 5kw PV install on a bungalow-13k after grant. Client bought system direct and got a local installer to do the job for 7.5k.


  • Registered Users Posts: 43,746 ✭✭✭✭ 6


    Read the 2020 quotes threads.

    Not all quotes are rip off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭ Car99


    portbilly wrote: »
    Just thought I'd post this out- there for readers comments.
    In general I believe that when government offer subsidies/grants that the provider ends up fleecing the recipient in the guise that there is a government grant available mitigating the cost.
    Case study, was researching cost of 60 tube evacuated solar tube system installation only.
    , no new cylinder required, got a quote from reputable company, 60km away, 7k Inc vat, less govt grant, €1200 so 5,800. I can source the exact same system less installation for 2,500 from well known Irish company, so installer gets 4.5K for less than a day's work for 2 tradesmen only, I know there is scaffolding
    insurance etc dormer building and max 300 extra in parts, but this is excessive. Is it rip off Ireland at its best I don't mind paying for good job but hate the idea of being fleeced, or is it a case of these people 'making hay while sun shines' excuse the pun.

    I made the exact same finding when I enquired about solar thermal a couple of weeks ago. Its like the grant is a bonus for the installers rather than a subsidy for the consumer.

    What is the VAT rate on solar panels in ireland ? 23%or 13.5%?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,054 Mod ✭✭✭✭ godtabh


    Where would you source an installer? Are they hard to get these days?


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Car99 wrote: »
    I made the exact same finding when I enquired about solar thermal a couple of weeks ago. Its like the grant is a bonus for the installers rather than a subsidy for the consumer.

    What is the VAT rate on solar panels in ireland ? 23%or 13.5%?

    Depends on whether you buy as an individual or routine "installer" company purchase (considered a "good" for VAT purposes), it will be 23% to you.
    If you find a decent installer working of the VAT two thirds rule then the installation is considered a service and the 13.5% rate will apply across labour and materials


  • Registered Users Posts: 942 ✭✭✭ rn


    I installed a EV tube system in 2011. Found exactly the same as you. Going official seai route v going private, going private was way cheaper.

    I guess there's peace of mind for Joe soap if going seai route and I know the installers at that time had to pay huge costs to register with seai.

    The other down side of going official route was, at that time, the paperwork for person installing. I hope they've sorted and simplified that since.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    godtabh wrote: »
    Where would you source an installer? Are they hard to get these days?

    I hope someone can answer this.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,069 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    godtabh wrote: »
    Where would you source an installer? Are they hard to get these days?

    Forum rules forbid naming of installers/companies.
    If you are serious about a PV install then read the 2020 Quotes thread and pick the Boards users to PM for details


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    slave1 wrote: »
    Forum rules forbid naming of installers/companies.
    If you are serious about a PV install then read the 2020 Quotes thread and pick the Boards users to PM for details

    Are the grant installers willing to just do installations and make less money?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,493 ✭✭✭ Car99


    Are the grant installers willing to just do installations and make less money?

    Why would they choose to make less money for doing the same job? If you supply the stuff or they do and if you go down the grant route or not at the end of the day they will want the same profit out of the job unless you have a mates rates installer that you can trust. After sales service and support if needed might be better go down the official grant route.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,209 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    Are the grant installers willing to just do installations and make less money?

    And if there is an issue who do you call?

    Lets say, you see that there is no power being generated, do you call the roofer, the electrician, the inverter company or the panel supplier?

    It could concievably be an issue with any one of those. If the installer comes out and its not his fault what then? Will you pay him for his time and then call the next guy?

    I'd go all or nothing.... do full DIY/direct-labour (no SEAI/grant and keep the costs down) or a one-stop installer company who supply, fit and commission everything and they deal with the SEAI (more expensive but less hassle for you and if you pick the right company, better backup service).


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 portbilly


    @E30M3 and 6, looked at the 2020 quotes section I'm only interested in solar thermal at the moment as house roof space tight. May look at solar PV for garage in the future any one willing to pm me details of installer I'm in looks thanks amill


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    KCross wrote: »
    And if there is an issue who do you call?

    Lets say, you see that there is no power being generated, do you call the roofer, the electrician, the inverter company or the panel supplier?

    It could concievably be an issue with any one of those. If the installer comes out and its not his fault what then? Will you pay him for his time and then call the next guy?

    I'd go all or nothing.... do full DIY/direct-labour (no SEAI/grant and keep the costs down) or a one-stop installer company who supply, fit and commission everything and they deal with the SEAI (more expensive but less hassle for you and if you pick the right company, better backup service).

    I just asked the question. You've not given an answer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,209 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    I just asked the question. You've not given an answer.

    I appreciate that, I’m just giving you something to think about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    KCross wrote: »
    I appreciate that, I’m just giving you something to think about.
    appreciate that but I've raised your very points on the quotes thread previously.
    My question was, what installer would you get to do it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8 portbilly


    @Southwesterly, I'm never set to say that Solar Thermal installers are not entitled to make a profit, however 5.5 k profit on product which wholesales for 2500 and max 2 day's work does seem excessive, I suppose it's supply and demand, however as per my initial post, I believe the Grant paid for by all taxpayers, and ultimately by my children, as Irish national debt is 219 billion, skews the market and lines the pockets of the installers not to the customer's benefit. I'm all for correct installation, however how prompt is/would be after sales support. As is sadly often the case once the money is paid up you are on your own or at the installers long waiting list, or am I a begrudger.??


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,580 ✭✭✭ SouthWesterly


    portbilly wrote: »
    @Southwesterly, I'm never set to say that Solar Thermal installers are not entitled to make a profit, however 5.5 k profit on product which wholesales for 2500 and max 2 day's work does seem excessive, I suppose it's supply and demand, however as per my initial post, I believe the Grant paid for by all taxpayers, and ultimately by my children, as Irish national debt is 219 billion, skews the market and lines the pockets of the installers not to the customer's benefit. I'm all for correct installation, however how prompt is/would be after sales support. As is sadly often the case once the money is paid up you are on your own or at the installers long waiting list, or am I a begrudger.??

    There's profit and there's rip off. The former is fine.
    Case in point. A certain solar as a service provider is doing a 2.5kw system for 4200 before grant and then wants 700extra per additional panel. I consider that to be in rip off territory particularly as the installer is on the roof anyway


  • Registered Users Posts: 909 ✭✭✭ poker--addict


    Possibly we would all be better off if the grant was scrapped immediately, there is lots of providers, they would be forced to compete on the open market.



  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ kabakuyu


    A better alternative might be vat free equipment and installation.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ tails_naf


    Totally agree the instalation cost is excessive, and that this happens whenever there is a grant and then approved installers required to get the grant. A better system would be a discount/refund on solar equipment purchases or vat free on the equipment/labour as the previous post said. Another option could be capping the install cost, or publishing install costs per supplier for all grant funded work. Name and shame



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