B!t€h and a moan

BlakeS94

Recently had my car in for a small NCT repair (corroded brake line on one corner) and my mechanic noticed i had new drop links and bushings on the anti roll bar. Almost certain I heard him mumble some profanity. The bushing bracket had worked itself loose so the bar was clunking against the chassis, I knew that was the issue and was going to tighten the bolts when I got home, issue resolved.

Anyway, he heard the clunk and shouted out to me to ask if I've been working on my car again, in a condescending tone. As if I'm incompetent to do some minor jobs myself. I explained the above but he went and tightened the bolts up while he had the car there. Which was grand, paid and off I went. Bear in mind I've paid him over €2000 the past couple months for different repairs. To which I dont seem to have received much courtesy.

Meanwhile I had gotten a job done on the cooling system by the same place and since then the entire top radiator hose was dry, no coolant visible whatsoever through the filler neck in the radiator. I sorted it and bled the system myself, it took an entire litre. Im thinking of going back and giving him the people in glass houses speech. Time for a new garage i reckon.

While I'm here anyone else like to share their stories that got them p1ssed off have at it.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Wouldn’t bother going back in just to have a pop at him. He sounds like an assh*le though, so I’d just switch garages, especially if he’s prone to the odd gaffe. He’s easily replaced.

Whocare

To be fair he was right you are incompetent if can't tighten the nut right .

BlakeS94

Whocare wrote: »

To be fair he was right you are incompetent if can't tighten the nut right .

When I did the work it was tight, bottomed out and the bracket was tight against the chassis no gap between the flange of the bracket and the crossmember, somehow it worked itself loose, sh1t happens, id have re- tightened it myself, so I personally don't think I'm incompetent

BlakeS94

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy wrote: »

Wouldn’t bother going back in just to have a pop at him. He sounds like an assh*le though, so I’d just switch garages, especially if he’s prone to the odd gaffe. He’s easily replaced.

You're probably right I could do without the added stress of a face-off. I wouldn't really mind to be honest, if he was doing flawless work himself, but this isn't the first time something wasn't right when I got the car back, and plastic trims have been scratched, one time my pollen filter was missing after car was in for an unrelated job nothing to do with pollen filter, diagnostic port was broken away from its bracket. None of these things were my doing

Whocare

BlakeS94 wrote: »

When I did the work it was tight, bottomed out and the bracket was tight against the chassis no gap between the flange of the bracket and the crossmember, somehow it worked itself loose, sh1t happens, id have re- tightened it myself, so I personally don't think I'm incompetent

That just an excuse it wasn't tighten right end of . If you took it to garage for that repair and loosen it incompetent too just saying like it is .to fair too garage make mistake too had flexible brake hose put on in such a way it was rubbing on shock only noticed it went I lost brakes

Toyotafanboi

BlakeS94 wrote: »

somehow it worked itself loose, sh1t happens, id have re- tightened it myself, so I personally don't think I'm incompetent

Just fortunate it wasn't a wheel or a brake caliper.

If you cant button down something like anti roll bar bushes first go and deem it ok to drive around like that then you probably, in all fairness aren't competent.

It's not really ok.

You need someone RGI registered to fix your boiler, someone RECI registered to repair your distribution board. Metal box you fling yourself around in at 120kmh you'll fix yourself and not even tighten it up properly.

mickdw

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Just fortunate it wasn't a wheel or a brake caliper.

If you cant button down something like anti roll bar bushes first go and deem it ok to drive around like that then you probably, in all fairness aren't competent.

It's not really ok.

You need someone RGI registered to fix your boiler, someone RECI registered to repair your distribution board. Metal box you fling yourself around in at 120kmh you'll fix yourself and not even tighten it up properly.

To be fair, minor like for like replacements are allowed by home owners to their electrical installation so to draw a comparison, a simple to install part like a drop link that is typically easily got at and doesnt need much in the way of tools to fit should always be within the power of the car owner to diy.
Neighbour had steering wheel come off in their hands after leaving a main dealer so stuff can happen even in the most legit business.

Toyotafanboi

Totally, issues can happen anywhere.

But to not tighten your suspension, drive around like that for a while knowing it was loose, complain that a mechanic called you up on it, chalk it up to nothing more than "**** happens" and then say you dont believe you are incompetent is all a bit riddiculous IMO.

FionnK86

mickdw wrote: »

To be fair, minor like for like replacements are allowed by home owners to their electrical installation so to draw a comparison, a simple to install part like a drop link that is typically easily got at and doesnt need much in the way of tools to fit should always be within the power of the car owner to diy.
Neighbour had steering wheel come off in their hands after leaving a main dealer so stuff can happen even in the most legit business.

2nd this. Parents had coolant hose clamp left off by main dealer garage, engine went on drive home. Most garages clock by hour for labour, and don’t have 2nd man check ‘critical tasks’ like connections and tightness, assuming it’s something a ‘competent’ mechanic should know. Human error isn’t specific to DIY mechanics!

My rule-of-thumb?

‘DIY x2’ - If you’re saving money, you need to spend more time, check it twice!

To be fair to mechanic, he could’ve made same mistake as you, but if you had gone to him and the part had catastrophic failure, garage would be liable. He’s right to justify his career, a hairdresser would say the same if you came back in with a lockdown #1 all over.

BlakeS94

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Just fortunate it wasn't a wheel or a brake caliper.

If you cant button down something like anti roll bar bushes first go and deem it ok to drive around like that then you probably, in all fairness aren't competent.

It's not really ok.

You need someone RGI registered to fix your boiler, someone RECI registered to repair your distribution board. Metal box you fling yourself around in at 120kmh you'll fix yourself and not even tighten it up properly.

When I tightened it as i said everything was snug, wheels were on the ground and I got an arm underneath to swing a ratchet off of the bracket bolts. They were quite snug, and I did drive it , it wasn't until a few days later ( the day I was bringing it to mechanic) that I heard the clunk on the way to work in the a.m., unsure how they came loose again but when I heard the knock I was pretty much certain it was the anti roll bar. And as for the likes of the wheel itself, I have other posts you can look through about how anal I am with using a torque wrench. Please give me some credit

BlakeS94

So just to clarify, there was no sounds of loose bracket bolts when I first completed the job, I took it for a spin and all was well. It unfortunately wasn't until the day I brought it to mechanic that I heard it, and was going to fix it at first opportunity.

colm_mcm

I don’t see your issue here tbh. He fixed your poor workmanship. He’s totally correct to react like he did.

Wibbs

BlakeS94 wrote: »

When I tightened it as i said everything was snug, wheels were on the ground and I got an arm underneath to swing a ratchet off of the bracket bolts. They were quite snug, and I did drive it , it wasn't until a few days later ( the day I was bringing it to mechanic) that I heard the clunk on the way to work in the a.m., unsure how they came loose again but when I heard the knock I was pretty much certain it was the anti roll bar. And as for the likes of the wheel itself, I have other posts you can look through about how anal I am with using a torque wrench. Please give me some credit

FWIW B my car has more bushes than the botanic gardens and it's pretty old, so I've done a fair bit of spanner work on suspension stuff over the years* and on two occasions I've had bolts that were torqued down correctly and they worked themselves loose. It can happen. Since then especially when dealing with suspension bits and bobs, as they're under a scary amount of stress that we rarely think about from the driving seat, so I go around and recheck them a day or so later.

I wouldn't bother my arse taking yer man to task. Life's too short B. Just find another garage/mechanic.




*often with my mechanic supervising, AKA shouting; WTF are you doing, you crossed eyed moron, give it here, I'll do it.

the-island-man

I would be in favour of making this kind of DIY stuff on cars illegal. I'd actually wonder if your insurance would cover you if they found out you'd been tampering with the Mechanical components in the car?

There's some stuff like changing the oil, topping up the coolant or changing the spark plugs that may lead to a break down but once you go beyond that you're potentially putting other road users at risk if you're not a qualified mechanic.

johndaman66

BlakeS94 wrote: »

While I'm here anyone else like to share their stories that got them p1ssed off have at it.

Many moons ago I had a head gasket go in a Vectra. My brother had previously had a tip in his car and had got it repaired relatively cheaply with a guy in local town (he was a mechanic as opposed to crash repairs but dabbled in crash repairs as I understood). Got him back on the road again when money was tight for him but he very much got what he paid for.

After speaking to my brother on it I decided to give him a call to see if he would be prepared to do the job for me. Knowing that the two motor factors in same local town are extortionate expensive I asked him would it be ok if I picked up the complete gasket set, head bolts and whatever else was needed in Limerick (reckoned I could get them at a better price in most of the factors there notwithstanding his trade discount). He absolutely flew of the handle big time - as if f'ing and blinding down the phone at me.

I could understand where he was coming from in a sense. He would be missing out on his mark up on materials, a risk of people getting half rate tat of ebay. If he had said no to that arrangement in a more polite manner, albeit, in no uncertain terms I would have likely went with him anyway - I just didn't see the need for the extremely impolite (to put it mildly) attitude.

As it happens the guy I got in touch with after had no problem with that arrangement and I have stuck with him since for anything beyond my DIY capabilities.

PsychoPete

We've all probably made a balls of something working on cars, I'd just put it down to sh!t happens and just move on

BrianD3

One of my cars failed the NCT and I needed work on brakes done in a hurry, rang the only garage that could take it in at short notice. More of a tyre fitters actually but they talk a great game on social media about all the mechanical work they can do.

Arrived and explained the problem again to the fella in charge, first thing I got was a mini lecture about about the type of brake setup my car had. I said it didn't but yer man was adamant, then one of his employees corrected him He brushed this off. We continued talking and I explained what I thought was wrong, trying to be helpful. He was clearly irritated telling me that "we are mechanics, we know what we're doing".

Then it took two long visits to fix the problem and I was charged a main dealer labour rate for the privilege. No courtesy car (I didn't expect one) but a painful experience overall with me having to go walkabout for several hours in the middle of winter in a Covid pandemic with very little open. Nowhere to go for a coffee or piss, had to do it in a laneway, at least I didn't need to sh*te

Whocare

the-island-man wrote: »

I would be in favour of making this kind of DIY stuff on cars illegal. I'd actually wonder if your insurance would cover you if they found out you'd been tampering with the Mechanical components in the car?

There's some stuff like changing the oil, topping up the coolant or changing the spark plugs that may lead to a break down but once you go beyond that you're potentially putting other road users at risk if you're not a qualified mechanic.

You don't even need to be qualified mechanic to work on hgv legally. Just be competent and there no test for that just experience


Plus qualified mechanic make mistakes too 4 or 5 years back have mechanic put caliper on after pads change in such a way it was rubbing hose off shock

BlakeS94

colm_mcm wrote: »

I don’t see your issue here tbh. He fixed your poor workmanship. He’s totally correct to react like he did.

Poor workmanship or not, I knew the issue and was going to fix it when I got home. No harm no foul, and as I've said previously, I've paid the mechanic a significant sum over the past couple months so I've been a good customer to his business, id have appreciated a little courtesy rather than implying I don't know anything about how cars work, which isn't true

BlakeS94

PsychoPete wrote: »

We've all probably made a balls of something working on cars, I'd just put it down to sh!t happens and just move on

I 100% agree but this post has attracted both sides of the argument

BlakeS94

the-island-man wrote: »

I would be in favour of making this kind of DIY stuff on cars illegal. I'd actually wonder if your insurance would cover you if they found out you'd been tampering with the Mechanical components in the car?

There's some stuff like changing the oil, topping up the coolant or changing the spark plugs that may lead to a break down but once you go beyond that you're potentially putting other road users at risk if you're not a qualified mechanic.

Define a qualified mechanic? I guarantee there's lads working on cars in dealerships and garages that aren't qualified to the word of the law. I do my research before every job and don't start until I feel confident in what needs to be done at every step. I've done a brake job on my car that was previously done by main dealer, calliper pins had no grease on them whatsoever, and the bolts on the calliper bracket to steering knuckle were not as tight as id have expected them to be.

_Kaiser_

I see the mechanic's point. You do repairs yourself and then bring it to him where he spots an issue, fixes it, and you are complaining that he wasn't happy about it.

You either do the work yourself, or you let him do it - or you accept with good grace if he spots something wrong.

It's like going to the doctor with your own diagnosis and treatment plan and complaining that he disagreed.

I'm not saying you're not competent to do whatever work yourself OP, but I can see why mechanics would get pissed off with it or maybe supplying your own parts etc and expecting them to fit and stand over it.

BlakeS94

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I see the mechanic's point. You do repairs yourself and then bring it to him where he spots an issue, fixes it, and you are complaining that he wasn't happy about it.

You either do the work yourself, or you let him do it - or you accept with good grace if he spots something wrong.

It's like going to the doctor with your own diagnosis and treatment plan and complaining that he disagreed.

I'm not saying you're not competent to do whatever work yourself OP, but I can see why mechanics would get pissed off with it or maybe supplying your own parts etc and expecting them to fit and stand over it.

The car was in for a brake line repair and he noticed the clunk when driving it out of the lot, I told him exactly what he was and said ill tighten it up when I get home, he insisted on doing it there himself. I'd understand if I had done the repair and he spotted the bushing wasn't even on the anti roll bar properly,but it was a screw that had loosened itself off. Either way I can accept there are two sides to the story. I do minor stuff myself, services and drop link and anti roll bar bushes, track rod ends. Anything out of my depth, like the head gasket repair recently, I hand over to the experienced mechanic. I don't go messing with something on the car without researching first.

the-island-man

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Define a qualified mechanic? I guarantee there's lads working on cars in dealerships and garages that aren't qualified to the word of the law. I do my research before every job and don't start until I feel confident in what needs to be done at every step. I've done a brake job on my car that was previously done by main dealer, calliper pins had no grease on them whatsoever, and the bolts on the calliper bracket to steering knuckle were not as tight as id have expected them to be.

I must admit after searching for a governing body I'm a little confused what body regulates and oversees Car Mechanics. Is it QQI or https://apprenticeship.ie/?!

It doesn't make any difference to the point I was trying to make. Making sure someone is "qualified" doesn't mean they won't make mistakes. Human error will always occur. The purpose is to make sure everyone has gone through a standardised level of training with supervision as an apprentice before they go making unsupervised alterations to a car. That same theory of having a standardised approach to training applies across many different sectors whether it be in trades or at third level and there's good reason for it.

Would you expect some junior aircraft maintenance engineer to learn their craft by being allowed to fix something on a Boeing or Airbus while the senior lads went off for a cup of tea?!

You may or may not class yourself as experienced now but at some point I would assume you started tinkering on cars without any supervision or training. It's not good to learn as you go on something that is going out on the roads.

Hellrazer

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

You need someone RGI registered to fix your boiler, someone RECI registered to repair your distribution board. Metal box you fling yourself around in at 120kmh you'll fix yourself and not even tighten it up properly.

Ive said it before and Ill say it again in my opinion the repairing of mechanical vehicles should be as tightly regulated as gas and electrical repairs - its only a matter of time before an unqualified person either cuts or sticks a screw through a high voltage cable and ends up dead.

Hellrazer

PsychoPete wrote: »

We've all probably made a balls of something working on cars, I'd just put it down to sh!t happens and just move on

The problem is "**** happens" can kill someone. In this case it was an anti roll bar....what if it was a track rod end nut that was loose, what if it was a bottom suspension arm?

That's not "**** happens" - that's dead driver/ passenger or innocent other road user.

Hellrazer

BlakeS94 wrote: »

Define a qualified mechanic? I guarantee there's lads working on cars in dealerships and garages that aren't qualified to the word of the law..

I guarantee you that they are. Its some Indys and some large tyre companies that use unqualified staff to work on cars.

I don't know of one main dealer that has unqualified staff working on cars.

Apprentices are another story - while not fully qualified most main dealers don't allow them to work on cars for a long time into their apprenticeships.

mickdw

What about working on the latest hybrid and electric cars.
How many garages have their mechanics certified to work on those?

Hellrazer

mickdw wrote: »

What about working on the latest hybrid and electric cars.
How many garages have their mechanics certified to work on those?

All of ours are high voltage qualified or as the manufacturers call it "high voltage aware"

It is only a matter of time before a home mechanic or someone in an Indy has a "**** happens" moment with high voltage and ends up dead - see how quick the regulators move then to lock things down.

Eoinbmw

Hellrazer wrote: »

All of ours are high voltage qualified or as the manufacturers call it "high voltage aware"

It is only a matter of time before a home mechanic or someone in an Indy has a "**** happens" moment with high voltage and ends up dead - see how quick the regulators move then to lock things down.

We've already had DIY enthusiasts found dead under there car after the jackstands or worse jack has failed!

Hellrazer

Eoinbmw wrote: »

We've already had DIY enthusiasts found dead under there car after the jackstands or worse jack has failed!

True - and the reason why I always , always leave the wheels Ive taken off under the brake discs when Im working under a car on my back even with good axle stands.

mickdw

Hellrazer wrote: »

All of ours are high voltage qualified or as the manufacturers call it "high voltage aware"

It is only a matter of time before a home mechanic or someone in an Indy has a "**** happens" moment with high voltage and ends up dead - see how quick the regulators move then to lock things down.

Id agree that the rapidly progressing electric trend is something that needs consideration re allowing home mechanics.
Its going to get harder and harder to do anything on a car soon anyway without dealer level equipment.

Is there a standard being applied across manufacturers re high voltage battery isolation or anything like that?
I know the early lexus gs450h had a pretty obvious and accessible isolator for the battery pack.

Diagnosing live systems though is a different task.

Hellrazer

mickdw wrote: »

Is there a standard being applied across manufacturers re high voltage battery isolation or anything like that?
I know the early lexus gs450h had a pretty obvious and accessible isolator for the battery pack.

I dont think there is a fully agreed standard- The isolation points for Emergency services etc / wiring colouring etc seem to be standardised enough with regards to markings of where to cut but the actual isolation of each different makes dont seem to be at all - at least thats what I see in our brands. One uses 2 stage switches, the other uses a jumper cable type setups thats actually removed from the vehicle.

BlakeS94

Hellrazer wrote: »

The problem is "**** happens" can kill someone. In this case it was an anti roll bar....what if it was a track rod end nut that was loose, what if it was a bottom suspension arm?

That's not "**** happens" - that's dead driver/ passenger or innocent other road user.

As it happens, i changed both front track rod ends myself a few weeks back, no issues there, once again I knew the issue and was going to fix it soon as I got a chance. I'd understand if I brought it in and hadn't a clue why it was knocking or if I incorrectly installed the bushings, but it wasn't any of that, and ill reiterate again, I do my research before the jobs I feel confident in carrying out myself, and I dont feel would be done any better by a mechanic.

Hellrazer

BlakeS94 wrote: »

As it happens, i changed both front track rod ends myself a few weeks back, no issues there, .

I take it you tracked it and made sure the alignment was correct after doing it - Fair play to you though - its not a job Id do on my back in a garden - too much can go wrong.

BlakeS94

I got the tracking as close to what it was by counting the turns off the old track rod end and putting the new part on with same amount of turns, and both parts old and new were exact same length, that made it driveable at least, so that I could bring it to a shop and get four wheel alignment straight after

mickdw

Hellrazer wrote: »

I take it you tracked it and made sure the alignment was correct after doing it - Fair play to you though - its not a job Id do on my back in a garden - too much can go wrong.

Ah ye have it too easy