What type of grass is this? It's destroyed my lawn!!

pj12332

Hi everyone,

I moved into a new build last year. Garden was basically a dump site. Dug it up, put down a good few tonnes of topsoil and seeded it. It grew in beautifully. Everything was great last summer. I put down a standard autumn fertilizer and left it alone.

Come march it started growing back but it's completely different type of grass. I always used evergreen number 2 lawn seed.

The new grass is long thick stalks almost with red at the base. See photo attached. Looks crap. A tiny pull and whole thing comes out of the soil. It leaves a massive gap though if I pull it up.

My back garden I reseded identically and used the same soil and seed. It's growing lovely again. I've no idea whats happened.

Am I going to have to go around and pull all of these clumps up and reseed? I don't see another way.

Any advise appreciated.

looksee

I am not an authority on lawns, but it appears to be a rye grass, which is not unusual in grass seed mixtures. It appears from the pic that some of it has already gone to seed, mowing it before that stage should control it. It depends on what kind of lawn you want though, if you are looking for a fine, bowling green type lawn then you may need a different seed mix.

magicbastarder

scutch grass/couch grass.

ErinGoBrath

Looks like Yorkshire fog, see link here: https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj3n9fjpanwAhVpShUIHWwVAkcQ3YkBegQIARAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.teagasc.ie%2Fmedia%2Fwebsite%2Fcrops%2Fhorticulture%2Fvegetables%2FLawn_Weed_Control_Factsheet_2020.pdf&psig=AOvVaw1kNzE0DAmd2M0lrIgDgnV3&ust=1619986330580014

I had same experience, new build, seeded ok 1st year and now year 3 it's destroyed with this weed grass and I'm going to lift it all up and lay down turf.

pj12332 wrote: »

Hi everyone,

I moved into a new build last year. Garden was basically a dump site. Dug it up, put down a good few tonnes of topsoil and seeded it. It grew in beautifully. Everything was great last summer. I put down a standard autumn fertilizer and left it alone.

Come march it started growing back but it's completely different type of grass. I always used evergreen number 2 lawn seed.

The new grass is long thick stalks almost with red at the base. See photo attached. Looks crap. A tiny pull and whole thing comes out of the soil. It leaves a massive gap though if I pull it up.

My back garden I reseded identically and used the same soil and seed. It's growing lovely again. I've no idea whats happened. The front garden is completely patchy and is full of clumps of the attached photo.

Am I going to have to go around and pull all of these clumps up and reseed? I don't see another way.

Any advise appreciated.

looksee

magicbastarder wrote: »

scutch grass/couch grass.

That was my first thought but it does not seem to have the root runners of scutch grass.

looksee

Yorkshire Fog seedhead is completely different to the seedhead shown in the photo.

legend99

I have, exactly the same problem where I actually chanced the no 1 mix but I have that stuff as well. You can't get, as far as I know anyway, any selective herbicides that will take that stuff out and leave the grasses you want. Think options are to manually try to remove - and hope pieces of root don't take off again, or else full kill off with roundup and start again. Saw one of the US online channels do the full roundup one, but he actually watered the area then a week after the roundup to try to get any dormant weed grass seeds to grow. Then second roundup. Then same cycle again to again try to get anything at all to grow so the third dose of roundup could kill it. So like a 6 week process. Even he remarked that his neighbours would be thinking he was mad watering dead grass. The Ryan Knorr channel on YouTube. And selling that plan at home for me anyway would have them thinking I'm stone mad! Heir view: "but it's all green. What's the problem?!" Lockdown has a lot to answer for when you're out looking at individual grass plants.....!!

The Continental Op

OP cut regularly at a suitable height and that grass will disappear in a few years.

That particular type of grass thrives when you cut irregularly and then try and make up for that by cutting really short. That damages the good grasses you want to grow far more than those course grasses you don't want. Not cutting often enough and leaving the grass to high also lets the course grasses grow away.

Unfortunately lawns in Ireland need cutting at least once a week if you want them to look good.

Edit> btw it looks to me like Annual Ryegrass (aka Italian Ryegrass) Lolium multiflorum, short lived grass (2 years?) so should go in time but regular mowing will help.

Zardoz

The Continental Op wrote: »

OP cut regularly at a suitable height and that grass will disappear in a few years.

That particular type of grass thrives when you cut irregularly and then try and make up for that by cutting really short. That damages the good grasses you want to grow far more than those course grasses you don't want. Not cutting often enough and leaving the grass to high also lets the course grasses grow away.

Unfortunately lawns in Ireland need cutting at least once a week if you want them to look good.

Edit> btw it looks to me like Annual Ryegrass (aka Italian Ryegrass) Lolium multiflorum, short lived grass (2 years?) so should go in time but regular mowing will help.

I agree with all of that.

It looks like Annual Ryegrass to me.

I have alot of it in my lawns too.
I have fields bordering on my site so the seed easily blows in.
I also had a temperamental lawnmower a few years ago that kept on breaking down, the result being that the grass got very long at times and it was awkward to get it down to a manageable height.
I wouldn't have cut my grass short though, its usually 2-2.5 inches high.
I dont think that coarse grass will tolerate being cut short, it will go yellow.

I scarify the lawn every spring, and put down iron sulphate regularly to kill the moss, it also encourages finer grasses to grow.
I've reseeded sections of the lawn, a full reseed would be a huge job over 1000sq metres.

The ryegrass seems to grow quickly if you put fertiliser on it.
I use this fertiliser
https://www.headlandamenity.com/extend-24-4-4-granular-25kg
Grass grows like mad though, you'd have to be at it every 5 days or otherwise it gets too long and you are taking off more than one third and you are back to square one.

Jim_Hodge

Zardoz wrote: »

I agree with all of that.

It looks like Annual Ryegrass to me.

I have alot of it in my lawns too.
I have fields bordering on my site so the seed easily blows in.
I also had a temperamental lawnmower a few years ago that kept on breaking down, the result being that the grass got very long at times and it was awkward to get it down to a manageable height.
I wouldn't have cut my grass short though, its usually 2-2.5 inches high.
I dont think that coarse grass will tolerate being cut short, it will go yellow.

I scarify the lawn every spring, and put down iron sulphate regularly to kill the moss, it also encourages finer grasses to grow.
I've reseeded sections of the lawn, a full reseed would be a huge job over 1000sq metres.

The ryegrass seems to grow quickly if you put fertiliser on it.
I use this fertiliser
https://www.headlandamenity.com/extend-24-4-4-granular-25kg
Grass grows like mad though, you'd have to be at it every 5 days or otherwise it gets too long and you are taking off more than one third and you are back to square one.

Isn't that fertiliser more suitable for coarse grasses?

The Continental Op

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Isn't that fertiliser more suitable for coarse grasses?

Their idea of coarse grass would put the average Irish lawn to shame.

Its in the title "For use on golf tees, approaches, fairways, sports pitches, racecourses and general amenity turf."

Mooooo

legend99 wrote: »

I have, exactly the same problem where I actually chanced the no 1 mix but I have that stuff as well. You can't get, as far as I know anyway, any selective herbicides that will take that stuff out and leave the grasses you want. Think options are to manually try to remove - and hope pieces of root don't take off again, or else full kill off with roundup and start again. Saw one of the US online channels do the full roundup one, but he actually watered the area then a week after the roundup to try to get any dormant weed grass seeds to grow. Then second roundup. Then same cycle again to again try to get anything at all to grow so the third dose of roundup could kill it. So like a 6 week process. Even he remarked that his neighbours would be thinking he was mad watering dead grass. The Ryan Knorr channel on YouTube. And selling that plan at home for me anyway would have them thinking I'm stone mad! Heir view: "but it's all green. What's the problem?!" Lockdown has a lot to answer for when you're out looking at individual grass plants.....!!

Fcuk me and the ****e farmers get for using sprays then when they are trained to use it...
If you want to kill off old sward it must be actively growing to in order to take in the spray, and let die so roots are killed off, may mean waiting 3 weeks before tilling the soil. There could be plenty seed in topsoil brought in so no guarantee other grasses wont grow back again either.

pj12332

Sorry I never got notifications and haven't actually looked back on here. Thanks for all the advice. I ended up going out and dug/pulled up the Majority of it. I tried to get the roots. Was left with about 30 patches about the size of your palm. Looked a mess, the stress of it haha.

Anyway I bought number one grass seed with no rygrass and reseeded it. Poked a few holes on the patches, Mixed a small bit of new topsoil with seed and topped it with small bit of peat moss.

A lot of the patches are growing in now. Lovely looking grass. I ended up overseeding the rest of the lawn with the number one lawn seed too while I was at it. So hopefully will encourage so smaller finer grasses to fill the smaller gaps in the lawn and hopefully it will spread everywhere haha. That's the hope anyway.

I actually wanted to ask, is there anything I can put on to speed up the germination of the new grasses? I know a lot of fertilizers will actually inhibit growth so I've just kept watering it and added nothing. Was wondering if there is anything I can add?

Ps I'll definitely mow it more often. Once every ten days or so.

Thanks for replies.

NIMAN

Another quick grass question for the lawn experts.

Does anyone know why the grass under the trampoline goes very lush and green?

I move the trampoline about the garden, so that the legs dont mark one area too much. But everytime it comes to moving it, I notice the grass underneath looks much better than the surrounding grass.

The Continental Op

NIMAN wrote: »

Another quick grass question for the lawn experts.

Does anyone know why the grass under the trampoline goes very lush and green?

I move the trampoline about the garden, so that the legs dont mark one area too much. But everytime it comes to moving it, I notice the grass underneath looks much better than the surrounding grass.

Wild guess (assuming it's nothing to do with over excited children) condensation.

I'm thinking maybe the bottom of the trampoline gets wet with condensation so the area under it gets just a little more water. Plus its shaded from the sun and will be a little warmer so grow better.

In a word (or two) microclimate.

pj12332

My guess is that it's not walked on. Simple as that!

Jim_Hodge

pj12332 wrote: »

My guess is that it's not walked on. Simple as that!

I'd go for more defused lighting and moisture retention I've seen similar and the rest of the lawn wouldn't have much foot traffic. You'll get it along high south facing hedges where the lawn is shaded for the warmest part of the day.

NIMAN

Thanks, some plausible theories there.

Coralcoras

That is a poa species of grass. Probably poa annua. It tries after a disturbance.. So was likely in your seed bed already. Keep cutting. It will eventually be outcompeted by sown species.

I think the grass is greener under trampolines because when slightly stressed due to lack of light it will draw on energy stored in its rootstock to grow taller and greener (more chlorophyll means more light energy uptake) aboveground. Long term the grass gets sparse and die out. This is an educated guess after years studying grasslands for one of those quasi-useless conservation degrees.

CelticRambler

Coralcoras wrote: »

I think the grass is greener under trampolines because when slightly stressed due to lack of light it will draw on energy stored in its rootstock to grow taller and greener (more chlorophyll means more light energy uptake) aboveground. Long term the grass gets sparse and die out.

Can you explain to my shaded grass that it's supposed to get sparse and die out?

I've just spent a week strimming the orchard (four passes, to get it down to mowable height) and year after year after year the grass in the most shaded part grows tallest, thickest and lushest. This shade is coming from half a dozen relatively young apple trees and half a dozen ancient oaks.

I've come to the conclusion that the leafiness of the trees from Spring to Autumn protects the soil and the grass from worst effects of the sun.

Coralcoras

Of course it could be a factor, but it's most. Likely nutrients from tree detritus falling down and better moisture conditions in that shade microclimate. Could be other factors at play, i.e soil microbial communities too. Honestly, just off the top of my head, but a somewhat educated guess

Edit: a trampoline environment would be different

CelticRambler

Coralcoras wrote: »

Of course it could be a factor, but it's most. Likely nutrients from tree detritus falling down and better moisture conditions in that shade microclimate. Could be other factors at play, i.e soil microbial communities too. Honestly, just off the top of my head, but a somewhat educated guess.

Well, if it's nutrient-rich tree detritus, that's great, because I vacuum it all up with the mower and use it as mulch on my vegetable beds!

Funnily enough, the berry fruits in that area have an inverse growth relationship with the grass, which is why they're all being relocated at the moment, out into the wide open tree-free space.

standardg60

NIMAN wrote: »

Another quick grass question for the lawn experts.

Does anyone know why the grass under the trampoline goes very lush and green?

I move the trampoline about the garden, so that the legs dont mark one area too much. But everytime it comes to moving it, I notice the grass underneath looks much better than the surrounding grass.

And the correct answer is it's simply akin to 'forcing'.
Removing the light initially forces the grass to grow to enable it to maintain it's nutrient requirement. But it's only temporary, prolonged covering and the grass will soon start to yellow and die off.

The Continental Op

I've also had a trampoline in the garden. With it left in the same spot for a couple of years I can safely say the growth under it was hardly any different to that around it. Bit of a pain really as mowing under a well bolted down 14ft trampoline isn't easy. I did notice the grass was always a bit greener under the trampoline.

standardg60

CelticRambler wrote: »

Can you explain to my shaded grass that it's supposed to get sparse and die out?

I've just spent a week strimming the orchard (four passes, to get it down to mowable height) and year after year after year the grass in the most shaded part grows tallest, thickest and lushest. This shade is coming from half a dozen relatively young apple trees and half a dozen ancient oaks.

I've come to the conclusion that the leafiness of the trees from Spring to Autumn protects the soil and the grass from worst effects of the sun.

Most likely acclimatization over the years, affected grasses die out and are replaced by those which thrive under such conditions

tDw6u1bj

I have a similar spot under a tree in my garden.
No matter how bad the rest of the grass is - completely infested with moss, weeds, and barely hanging in there. - this spot is always lush, green, and not even a trace of moss.
Don't think it can be selection as suggested above, the garden hasn't been established that long.
I don't understand it at all.

Jim_Hodge

standardg60 wrote: »

Most likely acclimatization over the years, affected grasses die out and are replaced by those which thrive under such conditions

I can't agree at all. I have a 70 metre long and 1 metre wide strip along a hedge that is full or light shade all day. From day one (35 years ago) it has been lusher and greener than most of the rest of the lawn. It benefits from no harsh direct sunlight and moisture is retained better as a result too (always the last place to dry after even a heavy dew).