Dozens killed at stampede in Israel

riffmongous

Awful stuff, one of their first major events since they brought Covid under control. 44 victims at current stand.

Dozens of people have been killed in a stampede at a pilgrimage site in northern Israel, with many others injured.

The incident occurred in Meron at the site of the reputed tomb of Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai, a second-century Talmudic sage, where mainly ultra-Orthodox Jews flock to mark the Lag BaOmer holiday.

After being closed last year due to coronavirus restrictions, this year's pilgrimage was expected to be a celebratory event in a nation that has largely reopened thanks to a successful vaccination effort.

The pilgrimage was largest public gathering since the pandemic began, with reports that there were three times more people there than authorised.

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2021/0430/1212958-stampede-israel/

Did everyone rush to get it at the same time?

biko

Ah man, what a terrible way to die.

riffmongous

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Did everyone rush to get it at the same time?

Seems like there were too many people and the restrictions they'd put in place to control the numbers created chokepoints elsewhere

riffmongous

riffmongous wrote: »

Seems like there were too many people and the restrictions they'd put in place to control the numbers created chokepoints elsewhere

I was a kid at the time but I’ll never forget watching the tragedy at Hillsborough unfold live on the tv. This brings it right back

riffmongous

An article from the Times of Israel written last night

In largest gathering since COVID, 100,000 flock to Mount Meron for Lag B’Omer
Due to huge crowds, police say they’re unable to enforce coronavirus restrictions; Health Ministry officials warn ‘unsafe situation’ may lead to mass contagion.

By midnight Thursday organizers estimated that some 100,000 people were at the site, with an additional 100,000 expected Friday morning.
..
The government failed to reach an agreement on how to handle the celebrations, with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reportedly wary of angering Haredi political parties by imposing restrictions.

Last year, the celebrations were severely curtailed over contagion fears.

But police and health officials have instituted their own rules at the site to try to keep the pilgrims from congregating at close quarters for lengthy periods of time.

Visits to the gravesite itself, which is indoors, are intended to be limited to a few minutes per person; no more than 10,000 people are allowed at any one time at the bonfire site, police said; and only pilgrims with “green passes,” certificates indicating they were vaccinated against COVID or have recovered from the coronavirus, were to be allowed to board the buses taking worshipers to the bonfires.

Despite the rules and the deployment of 5,000 officers to safeguard the event, police officials said they lacked the manpower to enforce the “green pass” requirement. It was acknowledged earlier Thursday that organizers would not be able to guarantee that unvaccinated people won’t be in the crowds.

Some worshipers arrived early on Thursday hoping to visit the gravesite before the lines grew long. Scuffles ensued when some resisted the new restrictions.

Footage from the site showed some Haredi protesters hurling insults at officers, including shouts of “Nazi.”

https://www.timesofisrael.com/tens-of-thousands-flock-to-mount-meron-for-lag-bomer-revelries/

lawrencesummers

People are entitled to their beliefs, more power to them, but to me the idea that you would die because of some nonsense written in a makey uppy book of fiction strikes me as a terribly stupid thing to die for.

The crowds in the videos are clear to see, it’s unsafe before anything happened.

The idea that health and safety can be ignored because it’s a religious ceremony is pure stupidity.

I’ve left pubs, nightclubs, matches that have been overcrowded and unsafe. The idea that rational adults ignore safety because of religious zeal is pitiful.

Pretzill

Such a terrible way to go - horrible. I remember being at a concert when I was a young one and there was a rush to the main exit I could feel my body being squashed only the guy I was with grabbed me I am sure I would have fallen under people. Whatever the event religious or not there has to be some organisational or barrier issue here small children were killed. Awful.

Silentcorner

lawrencesummers wrote: »

People are entitled to their beliefs, more power to them, but to me the idea that you would die because of some nonsense written in a makey uppy book of fiction strikes me as a terribly stupid thing to die for.

You are just admiring yourself in the mirror is all you are doing...you are no better than anyone, a life lesson too many us never learn!

lawrencesummers

Silentcorner wrote: »

You are just admiring yourself in the mirror is all you are doing...you are no better than anyone, a life lesson too many us never learn!

Naw, I’m better than a lot of people.

And a lot of people are better than me.

joseywhales

Very insightful stuff guys, someone is better than some but not better than some others. "Better" and "some" open to interpretation. It's like a bible passage.

Jimbob1977

Netanyahu was urged by health officials to ban the gathering.

But he has been trying to court the Orthodox Haredi vote, so he allowed the festival to proceed.

The footage indicates the usual story... funneling thousands of people down a narrow bottleneck. One person slips and it becomes a cascade.

Religion is not always the common denominator for stampedes and crushes.

Heysel, Hillsborough, Ibrox

The music festival tunnel in Germany a few years back.

Countless nightclub, concert and disco crushes.

lawrencesummers

Your going back decades citing those stadium incidents, and the changes that have been made ensure it will never happen again, while religion isnt the driving factor in many it is in this one.

There is an ingrained extremely fundamentalist viewpoint in the “ultra orthodox” Jewish community that puts religion ahead of everything else, unfortunately in this instance it commanded a superior place to the health and safety of those attending.

To most people in the world there are a lot of things more important than religion, in this case nothing is more important than religion and the consequences are horrific.

It’s a long time since any country in the developed world had an incident like this.

2015 Mecca. Official report says over 700 deaths but others have it at nearly 2500 dead.

lawrencesummers

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

2015 Mecca. Official report says over 700 deaths but others have it at nearly 2500 dead.

Religious zeal again, but I wouldn’t consider Saudi to be nearly as developed as Israel, it’s still a very backward country in many ways.

lawrencesummers

The sad thing is that there will probably be more deaths from this.

While they are further down the road than us the vaccination levels in Israel might not be enough to contain a spike due to this unfortunate event, and the inevitable overcrowding at the funerals.

Dying for religion.

Doesn’t get any stupider for me than that.

bee06

I was watching the coverage on Sky News yesterday and there were so many young children in the pre stampede footage they showed. Had to turn it off.

lawrencesummers

The youngest victim was 9 years old.

The ‘stampede’ didn’t start until 1am.

I will never get my head around peoples devotion to religion, but I can accept they want it and that’s their choice, but keeping a child up past 1am is simply wrong, and bringing a child to a place that crowded is just willfully neglectful.

Putting religion ahead of your own safety is one thing, but putting it ahead of your children’s safety is something completely different.

Biker79

Lefties never miss an opportunity to indulge their neuroticisms. :rolleyes:


Anyway...very sad incident. The ' Madness of Crowds ' will be a concern for everyone as the restrictions lift.

lawrencesummers

Biker79 wrote: »

Lefties never miss an opportunity to indulge their neuroticisms. :rolleyes:


Anyway...very sad incident. The ' Madness of Crowds ' will be a concern for everyone as the restrictions lift.

So your a leftie because you don’t like what happened, and then you say that you don’t like what happened.


A 9 year old has died at this, along with a lot a lot of young teenagers and you think a Simpson’s meme is appropriate.

That’s incredibly sad.

Timberrrrrrrr

Biker79 wrote: »

Lefties never miss an opportunity to indulge their neuroticisms. :rolleyes:

So saying that children shouldn't have been there at that time of the night/morning makes one a "leftie" now? :rolleyes:

Anyway...very sad incident. The ' Madness of Crowds ' will be a concern for everyone as the restrictions lift.

What's that supposed to mean? You think large crowds are going to go on the stampede as soon as people are allowed out again?

ILoveYourVibes

They say that an escape door in the passage way for emergencies was locked shut. And that a police barricade blocked people escaping another way out.

Obv there were too many people allowed into this gathering in the first place at any time ..let alone during covid.

Biker79

Biker79 wrote: »

Lefties never miss an opportunity to indulge their neuroticisms. :rolleyes:


Anyway...very sad incident. The ' Madness of Crowds ' will be a concern for everyone as the restrictions lift.

Some people never miss an opportunity to prove they are a dick