No response from letting agent, no details for landlord

DirtyBollox · 28-04-2021 2:06pm #1

Moved into a new house on 1st of March, before we moved in we paid 1 months deposit and 2 months rent up front. So the first months rent that we would be paying with direct deposit would be the 1st of May.

to start with our landlord is in England (he is irish but moved over there and lives there, we are living in his holiday home), and is looking to set up an Irish account for whatever reasons. This was not setup previous to contract being signed or at this point as far as we are aware.

We have no contact with the landlord and we are going through the letting agent. Where the issue lies is that they are not responding to any emails or calls. I have called them and asked for the details but got told "oh, they'll be sent over in an email shortly" or else "we replied to your email so everything is there" but we have received nothing.

What recourse is there for us? As far as the landlord knows (my own thinking is that he may have the same communication issues as us) is that someone moved into his house and even though we could pay, we wont be able to as we have no details.

All deposits and first rent was paid to an account in the letting agents name who, i assume, took their cut before handing the rest over to the landlord, but i have no idea tbh.

So what can we do, anyone have any suggestions? (no, we're not registered with the PRTB either, so far anyway)

DubCount · 28-04-2021 2:14pm

Do you have a written lease?

I would email the agent to show proof you tried to contact them. After that, I would save the money for rent pending getting an answer. I would usually expect the rent to be paid to the agent in this type of case.

Unless its a short term letting, I would expect the tenancy to be registered with the RTB. Maybe ask the letting agent about RTB registration as well.

PetitPois89 · 28-04-2021 2:16pm

Are the Agent managing the property as your Landlord is abroad? If so its likely you pay your rent to the Agent's account each month and they transfer to the Landlord.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2021 2:16pm

Be aware you must keep 20% to give directly to Revenue as the LL doesn't reside here....

SusanC10 · 28-04-2021 2:18pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Be aware you must keep 20% to give directly to Revenue as the LL doesn't reside here....

Unless the rent is paid to an Agent located in Ireland.

DirtyBollox · 28-04-2021 2:29pm

DubCount wrote: »

Do you have a written lease?

I would email the agent to show proof you tried to contact them. After that, I would save the money for rent pending getting an answer. I would usually expect the rent to be paid to the agent in this type of case.

Unless its a short term letting, I would expect the tenancy to be registered with the RTB. Maybe ask the letting agent about RTB registration as well.

Yes, we have a written yearly lease that stated on it that the landlords banking details were to be provided. Have asked about getting registered, but as i said below, thats been ignored to try and sort out the rent first.

PetitPois89 wrote: »

Are the Agent managing the property as your Landlord is abroad? If so its likely you pay your rent to the Agent's account each month and they transfer to the Landlord.

No idea to be honest, they sorted a few things in the house before we moved in, but now we're in, nothing is happening any more with those issues. Since the rent is the biggest thing we have let things like a non working radiator slide. for not.

They have not provided us with any banking details apart from the initial "put rent and deposit here" and they have assured us that we are to pay to the LL's account.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Be aware you must keep 20% to give directly to Revenue as the LL doesn't reside here....

I think that is why the LL is looking to set up an irish account, to avoid having to pay this.

Graces7 · 28-04-2021 2:32pm

Can you call in at the office? Works wonders.

DirtyBollox · 28-04-2021 2:52pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Can you call in at the office? Works wonders.

Not open due to Covid, was there once "doing him a favour" and its empty as they were in the middle of redecorating the place before it all hit.

punisher5112 · 28-04-2021 2:57pm

Keep the rent money in a separate account for now so you can pay when you get the details.

Email them stating you are trying to pay and can't get in touch.

This will then be seen if any issues arise later if they try to say you wouldn't pay.

Just wondering is it possible that it's a scam though. Have you checked out the letting agent to see if real.

Del2005 · 28-04-2021 3:02pm

DirtyBollox wrote: »

Not open due to Covid, was there once "doing him a favour" and its empty as they were in the middle of redecorating the place before it all hit.

They aren't closed due to Covid. Estate agents are an essential service and offices are allowed to be open, they can travel to prep for viewings and to video the property for listing.

Sounds like your renting from an accidental landlord who's hired a cowboy estate agent. Put the money in a separate account and email the estate agent that you need the account details to send the rent to so that you have a record of trying to pay.

PetitPois89 · 28-04-2021 3:27pm

Del2005 wrote: »

They aren't closed due to Covid. Estate agents are an essential service and offices are allowed to be open, they can travel to prep for viewings and to video the property for listing.

Sounds like your renting from an accidental landlord who's hired a cowboy estate agent. Put the money in a separate account and email the estate agent that you need the account details to send the rent to so that you have a record of trying to pay.

I would say that he means the office is closed to the public. I work for a very large EA and whilst some offices are open there is usually 1 person there to give out keys etc.

Agree though sounds like a cowboy agent/complete shambles

DirtyBollox · 28-04-2021 3:42pm

punisher5112 wrote: »

Keep the rent money in a separate account for now so you can pay when you get the details.

Email them stating you are trying to pay and can't get in touch.

This will then be seen if any issues arise later if they try to say you wouldn't pay.

Just wondering is it possible that it's a scam though. Have you checked out the letting agent to see if real.

Dont think its a scam, they are a large letting agent in the local town.

Del2005 wrote: »

They aren't closed due to Covid. Estate agents are an essential service and offices are allowed to be open, they can travel to prep for viewings and to video the property for listing.

Sounds like your renting from an accidental landlord who's hired a cowboy estate agent. Put the money in a separate account and email the estate agent that you need the account details to send the rent to so that you have a record of trying to pay.

PetitPois89 wrote: »

I would say that he means the office is closed to the public. I work for a very large EA and whilst some offices are open there is usually 1 person there to give out keys etc.

Agree though sounds like a cowboy agent/complete shambles

As PetitPois89 said, the office is closed, and it was in the middle of a renovation anyway when covid hit, so there is no office per se, so i can go to the office, and bang on the doors and windows, but there is no one there.

I reckon he's gotten by on a lot of well wishes and being local, so he's hoping as we're all irish i'll just accept it and move on. The last time i spoke to him on the phone he started by telling me he was getting the covid vaccine soon...

Anyway, money is in the bills account, its all ready to go and i've informed him of this.

Baby01032012 · 28-04-2021 6:08pm

Simply pay the rent that’s due in May to the agents client account as you did with the deposit and 2 months rent in advance. If agent is not managing it they will soon cop on to get bank details from the landlord as they won’t want to transfer every month when they’re not managing it.

dennyk · 28-04-2021 7:03pm

DirtyBollox wrote: »

I think that is why the LL is looking to set up an irish account, to avoid having to pay this.

The landlord having an Irish bank account doesn't absolve you of your obligation to take 20% off the rent and remit it to Revenue on the landlord's behalf if they reside overseas. You must still do that even if they give you an Irish bank account, if you are aware that they reside outside Ireland and the bank account is in their name (and not the name of an agent working on their behalf who does reside here). If you fail to do so, then when Revenue catch on, it's you they will be coming to for the taxes owed, not the landlord, and then it'll be on you to try to recover the funds that you have to pay to Revenue from the landlord themselves via an international lawsuit (which is expensive and complicated, hence why Revenue requires the tenants residing in Ireland to be responsible in those cases; so that they don't have to be arsed chasing down tax arrears across international borders...).

Mrs OBumble · 28-04-2021 8:21pm

Check your spam folder.

And keep the rent in a separate account until the LL says where to put it.

Del2005 · 28-04-2021 10:35pm

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Simply pay the rent that’s due in May to the agents client account as you did with the deposit and 2 months rent in advance. If agent is not managing it they will soon cop on to get bank details from the landlord as they won’t want to transfer every month when they’re not managing it.

Don't do this. With SEPA the recipient has to authorise the return of the money and as the estate agents are not the correct people to pay and they are this bad at giving the OP the correct account I can't see them returning the money quickly.

DirtyBollox · 29-04-2021 7:02am

As stated above by others, it looks to be a cowboy style letting agent who has survived as long as they have through well wishes and favours and the Irish mentality of "sure it'll be grand"

Agent finally replied last night saying as the office is closed he doesn't get all emails to his phone... Which is a load of bull****. We now have the banking details, but will have to find out about the 20% now and see what he says. If he says ignore it, well... Duck.. because I can only imagine there's a few accidental landlords at the moment and revenue will have a field day.

silver2020 · 29-04-2021 7:16am

Too many letting agents are lazy and uninterested and too many landlords don't check out what agent they are using.

I bought a rental property last year and it is now rented. But before choosing the agent I made enquires as a "customer" - out of 4 agents I contact, 3 responded, I did not respond to 3 email or answer 2 phone messages.

Of the 3 that responded, one had a like it or lump it attitude and wanted all reference before he'd even entertain showing me a property (no lockdown at the time), one just showed total non interest and one actually responded properly and gave a rundown of the property over the phone and offered a viewing.

Besides the no-answer agent, the worst was what would be considered "the biggest" agent in the town.

So maybe if you are in contact with the landlord let him/her know that the agent is not answering any emails or phone queries

beauf · 29-04-2021 7:43am

silver2020 wrote: »

Too many letting agents are lazy and uninterested and too many landlords don't check out what agent they are using....

The govt should have agents regulated with a code of practice and heavy fines for non performance.

Del2005 · 29-04-2021 3:52pm

DirtyBollox wrote: »

As stated above by others, it looks to be a cowboy style letting agent who has survived as long as they have through well wishes and favours and the Irish mentality of "sure it'll be grand"

Agent finally replied last night saying as the office is closed he doesn't get all emails to his phone... Which is a load of bull****. We now have the banking details, but will have to find out about the 20% now and see what he says. If he says ignore it, well... Duck.. because I can only imagine there's a few accidental landlords at the moment and revenue will have a field day.

If the money is not going to the agents account and as you know the landlord is non resident you have to keep the 20%,.

DirtyBollox · 29-04-2021 4:48pm

Del2005 wrote: »

If the money is not going to the agents account and as you know the landlord is non resident you have to keep the 20%,.

I checked with the letting agent, who replied straight away this morning, he said that the LL has appointed an Irish tax accountant to handle his tax affairs in Ireland so full amount is to go to the account provided.

punisher5112 · 29-04-2021 5:09pm

DirtyBollox wrote: »

I checked with the letting agent, who replied straight away this morning, he said that the LL has appointed an Irish tax accountant to handle his tax affairs in Ireland so full amount is to go to the account provided.

Who's name is the account in.
I wouldn't be too sure about that, I'd want it all correct.

FishOnABike · 29-04-2021 5:29pm

DirtyBollox wrote: »

I checked with the letting agent, who replied straight away this morning, he said that the LL has appointed an Irish tax accountant to handle his tax affairs in Ireland so full amount is to go to the account provided.

Is the account provided that of the landlord or that of the Irish tax accountant?

If the account provided is that of the landlord it is still your responsibility to retain the 20% non resident witholding tax and pay it to revenue.

If the account is that if an Irish agent the full rent is paid to the agent's account and it is their responsibility to take care of any witholding tax and liability to revenue.

I would ensure it is perfectly clear in whose name the account provided is to ensure you do not inadvertently pay the full rent into an account of a non resident landlord leaving yourself liable to revenue.

PetitPois89 · 30-04-2021 6:43am

beauf wrote: »

The govt should have agents regulated with a code of practice and heavy fines for non performance.

The property industry in Ireland is extremely regulated by the PSRA. I’d argue that it’s one of the most regulated real estate industries in the world - in comparison to the UK/mainland Europe/US. There are of course some cowboys who still retain licenses from pre-2011 legislation but to qualify as an estate agent now you have to meet certain criteria and study for a minimum of 2 years. There’s also an obligation to do CPD each year to maintain a valid license.

laoiseneylon · 25-05-2023 2:31pm

Hey I'm a journalist and I'm writing about the issue of people not being able to track down their landlord, and estate agents not handing over landlord data to RTB.

Would you be interested in talking to me?

Laoise

25-05-2023 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639539#Comment_120639539

Are agents required to hand over LL data?

Don’t let your article fall down because you didn’t read the Residential Tenancies Act, we have enough lazy journalists who don’t do their research before they publish.

See section 12(1) (e) & (f) and the RTB page linked below, the LL can nominate an Agent to represent them and provide their contact details.

https://www.rtb.ie/beginning-a-tenancy/rights-and-responsibilities

https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2004/act/27/section/12/enacted/en/html#sec12

26-05-2023 4:05pm

Must be a pressing issue if you have to resurrect a two year old thread to generate a story.

mrslancaster · 27-05-2023 1:50am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120639539#Comment_120639539

Are Estate agents not obliged to keep client information confidential in line with their licencing regulations and also GDPR?

Just curious here, but if a tenant is dealing with an authorised agent whether thats an EA, solicitor, accountant etc, why would they need to 'track down' the owner?

Mrs OBumble · 27-05-2023 2:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646092#Comment_120646092

I'm pretty sure tenancy law says tenants are entitled / required to be given the landlords contact details and address.

mrslancaster · 27-05-2023 2:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646098#Comment_120646098

That's interesting and was my understanding until recently then I was told that if the owner appoints an agent, they are the contact details that the tenant is entitled to get.

If the owner supplies personal data to the RTB for registration purposes, can the RTB then pass that data to anyone? I was told the RTA act provides that the RTB can pass it to revenue ok but not others.

Could you say where that regulation about tenants being entitled to owners personal data is in the act please?

27-05-2023 6:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646098#Comment_120646098

I’ve posted the legislation that LLs can nominate an Agent to act on their behalf in the tenancy, it is listed in LL obligations in the RTA, if you are pretty sure the tenant has further entitlements, I’d appreciate a link to the legislation you are basing that on.

DFB-D · 27-05-2023 8:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646141#Comment_120646141

What you actually linked to was that the landlord is obligated to provide the agents details.

Not quite the same as stating the agents contact details are all that need to be provided.

I suppose it will come down to what kind of agency agreement is in place, if undisclosed or disclosed.

If disclosed, the Landlord's address will be noted somewhere on the lease but in that case I don't think that phone numbers or emails need to be provided.

27-05-2023 8:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646329#Comment_120646329

Written tenancy agreements are not mandatory, so it does not have to be noted anywhere. The RTB are clear, I’ve provided the link, this is what they state the LL is obligated to do, the “or” is important.

• Provide the tenant with contact details (or for the agent working on the landlords behalf)

Can you link to the section of the RTA which says the LL contact details have to be provided? I’ve linked to the section included in LL obligations which states that LL can provide details of Agent who act on their behalf.

mrslancaster · 27-05-2023 1:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646368#Comment_120646368

Thanks for the link and information.

I first heard about this a while ago when an elderly owner who is in a nursing home was thinking of letting his house. He was nervous about giving personal information to any tenant, because should he be unlucky enough to have a problem with a difficult tenant, he didn't want his private residence details available to people he didn't know. The estate agent reassured him that only the agent details were required. It seems reasonable that a tenant isn't entitled to the personal data of the owners if there is an agent.

meijin · 27-05-2023 4:47pm

are those still in force? https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1993/si/146/made/en/print

Provision of Rent Book.

5. (2) The landlord shall, on provision of the rent book, enter therein in clearly legible writing—

( a ) the address of the house,

( b ) the name and address of the landlord and, if the landlord has duly appointed an agent, of such agent,

DFB-D · 27-05-2023 4:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120646368#Comment_120646368

Ah no, I'm not having arguments at this level, I actually didn't realise it was you I was replying to.....does it matter to you at all that you misquoted the legislation?

Honestly, are you deliberately trying to be cantankerous as a online ego, or is that just your personality?

27-05-2023 5:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647561#Comment_120647561

Rent books are required if the tenant pays in cash or requests one. Most pay by standing order and have bank records for proof of payment so rent books are dying out.

There is not much point in having an agent if you are going to give the tenant your contact details, you are paying the agent to act as the point of contact.

27-05-2023 5:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647578#Comment_120647578

I have no problem admitting when I’m wrong, but as I posted supporting links to the legislation, perhaps you would do the same rather than deflecting.

DFB-D · 27-05-2023 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120647650#Comment_120647650

No deflection. Merely pointing out that you don't have legislative backup...BTW you could probably get it but not in the RTA.

You also failed to see I used 2 words to describe agency agreements, disclosed and undisclosed. You might get out your dictionary to help you on the meaning of same.

Do you now see how preposterous your reply was?