LG TV - 16months old no longer working

magic_murph

I have an LG TV that is about 16 months old that stopped working at the week.
Power going to TV, Blank scree with no sound.
There was a power cut in the house earlier in the day about 5-6 hours before the Tv stopped working (Possible cause but no guarantee either)

The Warranty was 12 months with the retailer but I was under the impression that there was a new EU law about offering 2 years warranty.

Does anybody know about the 2 year EU law or am in in the position of just bad luck ?

XsApollo

Ireland has its own consumer law.
Read up on the sales of goods act and small claims court.
For a tv 16 months old you will get your new tv, repair or money back.

GIMP

magic_murph wrote: »

I have an LG TV that is about 16 months old that stopped working at the week.
Power going to TV, Blank scree with no sound.
There was a power cut in the house earlier in the day about 5-6 hours before the Tv stopped working (Possible cause but no guarantee either)

The Warranty was 12 months with the retailer but I was under the impression that there was a new EU law about offering 2 years warranty.

Does anybody know about the 2 year EU law or am in in the position of just bad luck ?

First thing contact the retailer you bought it from. They should replace, repair or refund. If you get the usual bs you are outside warranty then lodge a case with Small Claims Court. If your claim proceeds the retailer will most likely engage with you to remedy.

Trust me I had a similar issue last year with a Lg tv. It was sorted quickly once Small Claims were contacted. Best of luck op, the law is on your site.

GIMP

GIMP wrote: »

First thing contact the retailer you bought it from. They should replace, repair or refund. If you get the usual bs you are outside warranty then lodge a case with Small Claims Court. If your claim proceeds the retailer will most likely engage with you to remedy.

Trust me I had a similar issue last year with a Lg tv. It was sorted quickly once Small Claims were contacted. Best of luck op, the law is on your site.

Was the circuitry in your tv fried by a power surge?

Qrt

If the retailer is Power City, you’re gonna have a fight on your hands. They flat out deny the two-year EU warranty exists until you bring them to the Small Claims Court. They’re an an insufferable bunch. This same thing happened to a mate of mine, and her dad had to get very VERY assertive on the phone.

Jim_Hodge

Qrt wrote: »

If the retailer is Power City, you’re gonna have a fight on your hands. They flat out deny the two-year EU warranty exists until you bring them to the Small Claims Court. They’re an an insufferable bunch. This same thing happened to a mate of mine, and her dad had to get very VERY assertive on the phone.

The EU warranty doesn't apply here. The Sales of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 supersedes the EU directive in Ireland.

magic_murph

Dav010 wrote: »

Was the circuitry in your tv fried by a power surge?

I don't think so - I gave it to a local repair guy who mentioned a membrane in the screen could be fried, a common enough problem after a power outage.

Retailer is Harvey Norman - when I called I was directed to group customer service which I think is based in the UK. They just mentioned the 12 month warranty is up. They did provide an accredited repair company but they were based in the north so opted for local guy instead.

I might call to the shop tomorrow and speak with one of the sales staff but have a feeling they will just direct me to customer service which I guess is fair.

Qrt

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

The EU warranty doesn't apply here. The Sales of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 supersedes the EU directive in Ireland.

You sure? I mean, it’s well publicised, and it’s on the citizens information site.

L1011

This is one those it-does-and-it-doesn't things, its not transcribed to domestic law and the 6 years under domestic law is superior; but the EU regs do apply regardless.

Easier to use the domestic law.

Gooser14

magic_murph wrote: »

I don't think so - I gave it to a local repair guy who mentioned a membrane in the screen could be fried, a common enough problem after a power outage.

Retailer is Harvey Norman - when I called I was directed to group customer service which I think is based in the UK. They just mentioned the 12 month warranty is up. They did provide an accredited repair company but they were based in the north so opted for local guy instead.

I might call to the shop tomorrow and speak with one of the sales staff but have a feeling they will just direct me to customer service which I guess is fair.

The first thing you need to do is get it back from the local repair guy before he does anything to it. If he opens the TV you have probably invalidated any claim you might have on the supplier (Harvey Norman).

You then need to inform yourself of your consumer rights. See the following link:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer/consumer_laws/your_rights_as_consumer_in_ireland.html#lc9fb2

Since you have already discussed the matter with the supplier you should now submit a formal complaint to them using the CCPC letter of complaint template which can be found here:

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/how-to-complain/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwyZmEBhCpARIsALIzmnIi_TDIsPkRpoc-HvcjVN-oDCeGFxcsNWxwxpHn8fQ6TQTchABQGF0aAnEsEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

If that fails you can always go to the Small Claims Court. See the following link:

https://www.courts.ie/small-claims-procedure

magic_murph

Gooser14 wrote: »

The first thing you need to do is get it back from the local repair guy before he does anything to it. If he opens the TV you have probably invalidated any claim you might have on the supplier (Harvey Norman).

You then need to inform yourself of your consumer rights. See the following link:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer/consumer_laws/your_rights_as_consumer_in_ireland.html#lc9fb2

Since you have already discussed the matter with the supplier you should now submit a formal complaint to them using the CCPC letter of complaint template which can be found here:

https://www.ccpc.ie/consumers/how-to-complain/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwyZmEBhCpARIsALIzmnIi_TDIsPkRpoc-HvcjVN-oDCeGFxcsNWxwxpHn8fQ6TQTchABQGF0aAnEsEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

If that fails you can always go to the Small Claims Court. See the following link:

https://www.courts.ie/small-claims-procedure

Thanks for the above - much appreciated.
Unfortunately the local repair guy took the back off the TV to check if there was anything obviously fried inside so that could be the end of the conversation. I'll have a chat with him tomorrow to see exactly what he has done and take it from there.

theteal

You could just get a report from the repair guy showing that it was a fault and not user damage that killed it. Youd need that for a small claims case anyway.

Welshprince

The solution is you take the retailer to the small claims Court procedure. I bought a Samsung and it went after around 18 months, it was not fixable. The retailer had to refund the full cost. The law is that something you would reasonably expect to last around 10 years should give you that longevity. I got every cent back, but before taking the retailer to Court, approach them and ask them to either refund or replace the TV. They will probably refuse. It will cost 25 euro to instigate the action but you will win the case. Consumer law is very much in favor of protecting the purchaser.

silver2020

Welshprince wrote: »

The solution is you take the retailer to the small claims Court procedure. I bought a Samsung and it went after around 18 months, it was not fixable. The retailer had to refund the full cost. The law is that something you would reasonably expect to last around 10 years should give you that longevity. I got every cent back, but before taking the retailer to Court, approach them and ask them to either refund or replace the TV. They will probably refuse. It will cost 25 euro to instigate the action but you will win the case. Consumer law is very much in favor of protecting the purchaser.

If the fault was caused by a power failure or power surge, this does not come under warranty.

You have to be able to show that it failed in normal use. The OP here is being fully transparent and looking to find what caused the issue. Once that is ascertained, then the OP will know which route to follow

Also, in posts above, the opening of the TV by a qualified person does not in any way diminish your rights and there was even an EU case on this many years ago regarding getting a car repaired in a non franchise dealer invalidating a warranty. The EU ruled that the warranty continues as normal.

James Bond Junior

I had it with Panasonic. 23 months old and it went bang one day and that was it.
I quoted the 2 year EU law to them after a small fight and flat out refusal to refund or replace. They had tried to repair but it was unrepairable. Once I quoted the EU law via email, the next reply asked for my bank details and gave me a full refund.

Hoboo

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I had it with Panasonic. 23 months old and it went bang one day and that was it.
I quoted the 2 year EU law to them after a small fight and flat out refusal to refund or replace. They had tried to repair but it was unrepairable. Once I quoted the EU law via email, the next reply asked for my bank details and gave me a full refund.

Exactly this. Everything in writing. They always back down.

Samuel T. Cogley

There are a myraid of issues with the EU directive and how it's interpreted. The main issue with it is if selected as the legislation you're relying on, after six months you will have to produce evidence that the lack of conformity existed at the time of delivery of the goods. i.e. it's up to you to proved there was a manufacturing defect.

As others have said make it clear you're 'selecting' the Sales of Goods Acts as the legislation your relying on - although there are issues here also.

silver2020

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I had it with Panasonic. 23 months old and it went bang one day and that was it.
I quoted the 2 year EU law to them after a small fight and flat out refusal to refund or replace. They had tried to repair but it was unrepairable. Once I quoted the EU law via email, the next reply asked for my bank details and gave me a full refund.

As repeated here time and time again, the EU directive does not apply in Ireland as the Irish sale of good act provides much stronger protection for "up to" 6 years.

So if your panasonic failed after 25 months, under EU legislation you may not have contacted the seller, whereas you were still protected under Irish legislation.

If a refund was the only option, then a partial refund taking into account both price changes in technology and the fact you had 23 months use would have been the fairest option.

So I suspect that your post is possibly made up as it doesn't add up

Samuel T. Cogley

silver2020 wrote: »

As repeated here time and time again, the EU directive does not apply in Ireland as the Irish sale of good act provides much stronger protection for "up to" 6 years.

So if your panasonic failed after 25 months, under EU legislation you may not have contacted the seller, whereas you were still protected under Irish legislation.

If a refund was the only option, then a partial refund taking into account both price changes in technology and the fact you had 23 months use would have been the fairest option.

So I suspect that your post is possibly made up as it doesn't add up

In my view it does apply here under partially through SI 11/2003 and partially through indirect effect. Some companies simply operate as if it was in operation without any issues, so the post is more than credible.

However they could have required proof that the issue was a lack of conformity at time of delivery. I'm also dubious about it being Panasonic the OP was dealing with and not an intermediary but that's an easy mistake to make.

Cerco

theteal wrote: »

You could just get a report from the repair guy showing that it was a fault and not user damage that killed it. Youd need that for a small claims case anyway.

Do not mention anything about a local repair guy or power outage to the retailer. The retailer should at the very least have the issue analysed. It is up to them to determine the cause of the fault. If they refuse to deal with it and not offer one of the three "Rs" (Refund, replace of repair) then you can consider what to do.


Mentioning a third party internal inspection may invalidate any claim.


Make sure if you do decide to use SCC then get a report from a qualified person.

Samuel T. Cogley

Cerco wrote: »

Make sure if you do decide to use SCC then get a report from a qualified person.

Just on this - I'd personally submit the claim if going that route and only get a report if asked for one as they can be expensive enough. You may find they cave if a claim is submitted. Be prepared to get a report in a timely fashion if asked for one though.

Have you tried Googling for solution op. I’ve had strange issues with smart TVs.

There might be an easy fix.

You say there is power going to the tv. How do you know, red led on?

silver2020

Deleted User wrote: »

Have you tried Googling for solution op. I’ve had strange issues with smart TVs.

There might be an easy fix.

You say there is power going to the tv. How do you know, red led on?

I'd have assumed the op has tried this, but possibly not.

The usual is a hard reset. Plug out for a minute and then plug back in whilst holding the power button down on the TV (not the remote)

Cerco

Cerco wrote: »

Do not mention anything about a local repair guy or power outage to the retailer. The retailer should at the very least have the issue analysed. It is up to them to determine the cause of the fault. If they refuse to deal with it and not offer one of the three "Rs" (Refund, replace of repair) then you can consider what to do.


Mentioning a third party internal inspection may invalidate any claim.


Make sure if you do decide to use SCC then get a report from a qualified person.

This is not true. After 6 months the burden switches to the buyer to prove a fault exists in the item.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer/shopping/repairs_replacements_and_refunds.html

James Bond Junior

silver2020 wrote: »

As repeated here time and time again, the EU directive does not apply in Ireland as the Irish sale of good act provides much stronger protection for "up to" 6 years.

So if your panasonic failed after 25 months, under EU legislation you may not have contacted the seller, whereas you were still protected under Irish legislation.

If a refund was the only option, then a partial refund taking into account both price changes in technology and the fact you had 23 months use would have been the fairest option.

So I suspect that your post is possibly made up as it doesn't add up

How dare you accuse me of making that up. I contacted HN where I bought it who referred me to Panasonic UK who then referred me to their repair agent in Limerick. He was unable to fix it as parts were NLA and they told me tough. I did a little research and found out about the EU law, which I quoted to them and low and behold I was furnished with a full refund as per my receipt from HN.

In fact I still have the email, here you go.

> Dear Mr

>

> I received your receipt and bank details of the SC-HTB20EBK, and now sent the details to our accounts team to set up the vendor.

>

> Once this has been set up, and once I receive the vendor number, the refund process shall begin.

>

> Please allow approximately 15 working days for the payment to appear in your account.

>

> I trust this information is of assistance, if however you do have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.

>

> Kind Regards

Samuel T. Cogley

Tbf Panasonic had absolutely no obligation to do that. HN did, but not Panasonic.

James Bond Junior

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Tbf Panasonic had absolutely no obligation to do that. HN did, but not Panasonic.

I know, I was lucky as it was sorted out very well in the end. But being called a liar is the ultimate insult to me. I can trace it all back to an incident in 4th class when I was wrongfully accused of something by the teacher!

Sleeper12

magic_murph wrote:

The Warranty was 12 months with the retailer but I was under the impression that there was a new EU law about offering 2 years warranty.

Warranty is almost never with the retailer. You contract is with the retailer but the warranty is with the manufacturer. There isn't a 2 years eu warranty no more than there is a 6 years Irish warranty. Irish sale of goods act says that you can bring a case against the retailer in the first 6 years. You n to be able to prove that the fault is a manifacturer fault

Damage caused by a power cut or power surge is not likely to be considered a manifacturer fault

Sleeper12

Jim_Hodge wrote:

The EU warranty doesn't apply here. The Sales of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 supersedes the EU directive in Ireland.

silver2020 wrote:

As repeated here time and time again, the EU directive does not apply in Ireland as the Irish sale of good act provides much stronger protection for "up to" 6 years.

The EU warranty does indeed cover Ireland though its not exactly a warranty and yes we did inact it. Having said all of that we have the sale of goods act in Ireland also. This isn’t a warranty either. You can use either piece of legislation in the small claims court but the Irish sale of goods act gives better protection than the EU protection

whiterebel

Sleeper12 wrote: »

The EU warranty does indeed cover Ireland though its not exactly a warranty and yes we did inact it. Having said all of that we have the sale of goods act in Ireland also. This isn’t a warranty either. You can use either piece of legislation in the small claims court but the Irish sale of goods act gives better protection than the EU protection

So how do you go about enforcing this EU warranty? The retailer refuses to fix it point blank. What next?

Sleeper12

whiterebel wrote:

So how do you go about enforcing this EU warranty? The retailer refuses to fix it point blank. What next?

There is no 2 years eu warranty or Irish 6 years warranty. A warranty is something that the manufacturer offers on top of your statutory rights.

In Ireland we have eu statutory rights and Irish statutory rights. Most retailers claim not to be aware of statutory rights and point to the manufacturer warranty. Quite often the warranty is the quickest route. Outside of the warranty sometimes you have to threaten or go the small claims court route to enforce your statutory rights

whiterebel

Sleeper12 wrote: »

There is no 2 years eu warranty or Irish 6 years warranty. A warranty is something that the manufacturer offers on top of your statutory rights.

In Ireland we have eu statutory rights and Irish statutory rights. Most retailers claim not to be aware of statutory rights and point to the manufacturer warranty. Quite often the warranty is the quickest route. Outside of the warranty sometimes you have to threaten or go the small claims court route to enforce your statutory rights

Didn’t answer the question?

Cerco

Dav010 wrote: »

This is not true. After 6 months the burden switches to the buyer to prove a fault exists in the item.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/consumer/shopping/repairs_replacements_and_refunds.html

There is a huge difference between analysing a problem and demonstrating a problem. The Op can easily demonstrate that the tv does not work thus proving a fault exists.
In addition a tv that fails after 16 months is “not fit for purpose” .

Cerco

Cerco wrote: »

There is a huge difference between analysing a problem and demonstrating a problem. The Op can easily demonstrate that the tv does not work thus proving a fault exists.
In addition a tv that fails after 16 months is “not fit for purpose” .

Up to 6 months there is an assumption that the fault existed when it was purchased, after 6 months the onus transfers to the buyer to prove it existed when bought. Just because it no longer works does not automatically mean it was faulty, as other posters have said, a fault caused by a power surge is not a manufacturing fault and does not mean the TV was not fit for purpose when sold. Did you read the link I posted? The pertinent part is the text in the box relating to pre/post 6 months.

Cerco

Dav010 wrote: »

Up to 6 months there is an assumption that the fault existed when it was purchased, after 6 months the onus transfers to the buyer to prove it existed when bought. Just because it no longer works does not automatically mean it was faulty, as other posters have said, a fault caused by a power surge is not a manufacturing fault and does not mean the TV was not fit for purpose when sold. Did you read the link I posted? The pertinente part is the text in the box relating to pre/post 6 months.

I am very much aware of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act.
What is “pertinent “ is decided by a court.

Do you understand the concept of “fit for purpose”.

If a component fails after such a short period (16 months) then it or another component part of the circuitry was “not fit for purpose”

A well designed and properly manufactured piece of electronic equipment should not fail in such a short period. The six month period covers the concept of component infant mortality, but then the component life moves into sustainability.

Speculation on a power failure being the cause is just that “speculation”
The retailers technical resource would determine the nature of the fault.
A purchaser is not required to have the technical expertise to determine the cause of failure.

Sleeper12

whiterebel wrote: »

So how do you go about enforcing this EU warranty? The retailer refuses to fix it point blank. What next?

whiterebel wrote: »

Didn’t answer the question?

There is no EU warranty & no Irish warranty. We do have EU & Irish statutory rights. The answer to the question is the small claims court. Unfortunately many retailers, including large retails, claim ignorance of our rights & instead point to the manufacture warranty. The only option open to you is small claims court



Business must now have someone trained & appointed to GDPR, Someone trained in Covid 19 protection but sadly there is no push for business to have someone trained in consumers rights. This strikes me as very odd

Cerco

Cerco wrote: »

I am very much aware of the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act.
What is “pertinent “ is decided by a court.

Do you understand the concept of “fit for purpose”.

If a component fails after such a short period (16 months) then it or another component part of the circuitry was “not fit for purpose”

A well designed and properly manufactured piece of electronic equipment should not fail in such a short period. The six month period covers the concept of component infant mortality, but then the component life moves into sustainability.

Speculation on a power failure being the cause is just that “speculation”
The retailers technical resource would determine the nature of the fault.
A purchaser is not required to have the technical expertise to determine the cause of failure.

I agree it is speculation, but a retailer is within their rights to charge the consumer to investigate the source of the problem, if it is found to be a manufacturing fault, of course the consumer is entitled to redress under SOGaSA.

I certainly do understand the term “fit fit purpose”, I also understand that failure can occur due to actions/events beyond the control of the retailer/ manufacturer, for instance misuse or electrical surges. Again, if, and that is only an if, the fault was caused by a power surge, then neither the retailer nor the manufacturer are responsible for this. If the retailer agrees to open the unit and sees fried circuitry, then there is absolutely no guarantee the SCC will see this as it being not fit for purpose.

You said what is pertinent is what the Court decides, that decision must take into account the legislation on which its decisions are based, so I’m going to refer you back to the link I posted.

JimmyVik

I bought a TV a few years ago.
It just stopped working after about 2.5 years.
Calls to Powercity did absolutely no good. Just got stonewalled.
I wasnt going to give up. I had paid over €3k for that tv.
I paid €40 for a solicitor to send a letter to them and within 2 weeks I had a refund.
Might be worth seeing if you can find a solicitor that deals in these things.

silver2020

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I know, I was lucky as it was sorted out very well in the end. But being called a liar is the ultimate insult to me. I can trace it all back to an incident in 4th class when I was wrongfully accused of something by the teacher!

Nothing in that response suggests that they are responding to your incorrect threat of action under the EU directive.

The EU directive does not apply here and HN would have known that.

Panasonic probably did this as a goodwill gesture as you had no contract with them.

So I am correct that your assertion of threatening them with EU law did not elicit the response as your contract was with HN and they did not provide any remedy to you.


You may have thought so, but any recompense you got was goodwill gesture by panasonic.

James Bond Junior

silver2020 wrote: »

Nothing in that response suggests that they are responding to your incorrect threat of action under the EU directive.

The EU directive does not apply here and HN would have known that.

Panasonic probably did this as a goodwill gesture as you had no contract with them.

So I am correct that your assertion of threatening them with EU law did not elicit the response as your contract was with HN and they did not provide any remedy to you.


You may have thought so, but any recompense you got was goodwill gesture by panasonic.

I did well then, fine. But don't call people liars.

silver2020

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I did well then, fine. But don't call people liars.

I did not call you a liar - I said it was "possibly" made up as it simply did not add up as you had stated - and it doesn't. You got a goodwill refund which many decent retailers and suppliers will do (eg, buying something in a shop and changing your mind, shop gives you refund. They don't have to, but they do so hoping that you will continue to buy from them)

Too many people, harp on about this eu legislation not realising that they are wrong and actually have stronger rights. Posts that say someone was "successful" stating this eu law just re-enforce this error and make people look foolish when they quote it.

Sleeper12

silver2020 wrote: »

I did not call you a liar - I said it was "possibly" made up as it simply did not add up as you had stated - and it doesn't. You got a goodwill refund which many decent retailers and suppliers will do (eg, buying something in a shop and changing your mind, shop gives you refund. They don't have to, but they do so hoping that you will continue to buy from them)

Too many people, harp on about this eu legislation not realising that they are wrong and actually have stronger rights. Posts that say someone was "successful" stating this eu law just re-enforce this error and make people look foolish when they quote it.

Just to be clear here. Ireland signed up to Directive 1999/44/EC. It was introduced into Irish law in June 2014. The minimum guarantee is for two years BUT member states are allowed to have longer periods. Ireland has 6 years. It isn't wrong to quote EU guarantee when dealing with retailers. The mistake most people make is believing that Directive 1999/44/EC is only a 2 years legal guarantee. Many Irish people believe that we opted out. We didn't.

3. (1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), these Regulations are in addition to, and not in substitution for, any other enactment relating to the sale of goods or the terms of contracts concluded with consumers, and in particular —


(a) the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Acts 1893 and 1980,


and


(b) the European Communities (Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1995 ( S.I. No. 27 of 1995 ).

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2003/si/11/made/en/print

1874

Im unclear, is the Sale of Goods Act 1980 the best to quote when dealing with a seller of a tv where they are insisting on a repair? I was told, its the law and they have a right to offer to repair first. I see from the CCPC website, they say for goods bought on or before 28th Nov 2022, that you can reject the item and get a full refund, I'm only looking for a like for like replacement, so not even a refund.

grinder23

Repair refund or replace in no particular order I would say any retailer is entitled to offer repair as a 1st port of call as long as it's carried out in a reasonable time frame

Gooser14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121093424#Comment_121093424

The CCPC info includes the following:

"If the business fails to repair or replace the item within a reasonable timeframe, you can request a full refund."