The end of movies on physical media?

Wedwood

Over the course of the pandemic, I’ve bought a lot more movies via iTunes/Apple TV, than ordered Blu-ray.

One added benefit of buying the movies on iTunes is that when the 4K version of a movie you’ve purchased is released, you usually get a free upgrade from 1080p. While 4K bit rates are higher on the disc, there’s not much difference in video quality to the casual viewer unless you really scrutinise the images.

I was originally sceptical about ditching physical media for collecting movies, however I don’t see much reason to purchase a disc again anytime soon.

Is this the end for movies on physical media ?

NIMAN

I'd say more than likely. Especially as broadband and ability to stream improves. Many of us aren't there yet.

On a bigger note, I wonder could this be the beginning of the end for cinema's too? I know its great to go to see a film on the big screen, but I think in the future, people will value convenience, and being able to buy the latest releases and stream them at home might put a lot of folk off actually making the effort to go out to catch it.

mikhail

NIMAN wrote: »

On a bigger note, I wonder could this be the beginning of the end for cinema's too? I know its great to go to see a film on the big screen, but I think in the future, people will value convenience, and being able to buy the latest releases and stream them at home might put a lot of folk off actually making the effort to go out to catch it.

I think 'the end' is maybe a little strong. Cinema trips are as much social occasions as a method to see a movie. I expect the industry will contract though.

joe40

NIMAN wrote: »

I'd say more than likely. Especially as broadband and ability to stream improves. Many of us aren't there yet.

On a bigger note, I wonder could this be the beginning of the end for cinema's too? I know its great to go to see a film on the big screen, but I think in the future, people will value convenience, and being able to buy the latest releases and stream them at home might put a lot of folk off actually making the effort to go out to catch it.

Previously I would have disagreed but since larger TVs with good picture quality are becoming more affordable a real home cinema experience is within reach of a large number of people.

Obviously the social element is still there so cinema is still relevant, but family trips for example can be quite expensive.

2 adults 2/3 kids going to a movie with food is quite costly.

santana75

I think the biggest hit to cinema will be with families. I've been to screenings where it was mostly parents and their children and between the non stop trips to the bathroom, amateur dramatics, and all manner of acting out in the theatre, it all just seemed an exhausting expedition for parents to take on. Not to mention the expense, so I can't imagine many parents opting to travel to the cinema when it'll be so much more convenient and cheaper to stay at home with a big screen.

branie2

I hope not

I hope so.
Just going through my attic yesterday. So many DVD boxes with dvds I’ll never watch again.
Physical media is just not future proof.

Having said that, no matter how good streaming is now, I still hate the compression.
Would be nice to be able to buy high quality downloads.

Decuc500

I prefer watching movies on Blu Ray to streaming or downloading. Much better picture and sound quality.

I also prefer owning my favourite movies on disc as opposed to depending on what streaming service has the rights to a particular movie an any given day of the week.
The way ‘content’ is passed around the different streamers is maddening. Movies being exclusive to any one streaming company is very annoying as well.

There are boutique Blu Ray labels like Criterion, Eureka, Arrow etc releasing classic and cult movies that aren’t on any streaming service.
Yes, these are collectors things and can be a bit niche but how else can we watch these films when Netflix or Apple wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole?

johnny_ultimate

My answer hasn’t changed over the last decade: as long as many great and interesting films are only available on disc, there’ll be a vital place for it. Specialist labels are ensuring that all kinds of films are properly remastered and released: indeed, the deeper they have to dive into film history to find new films, the more important it is.

Yes, the quality’s better on disc too. And yes, I 100% support streaming too because it’s the easiest, cheapest and most accessible way to see many films. But for me modern film watching remains a mix of discs, cinema and streaming: certainly no sign of it changing any time soon.

branie2

Decuc500 wrote: »

I prefer watching movies on Blu Ray to streaming or downloading. Much better picture and sound quality.

I also prefer owning my favourite movies on disc as opposed to depending on what streaming service has the rights to a particular movie an any given day of the week.
The way ‘content’ is passed around the different streamers is maddening. Movies being exclusive to any one streaming company is very annoying as well.

There are boutique Blu Ray labels like Criterion, Eureka, Arrow etc releasing classic and cult movies that aren’t on any streaming service.
Yes, these are collectors things and can be a bit niche but how else can we watch these films when Netflix or Apple wouldn’t touch them with a barge pole?

I'm a big fan of Blu-ray as well

NIMAN

NIMAN wrote: »

.

On a bigger note, I wonder could this be the beginning of the end for cinema's too?

It's a choice. Watch a movie in a room full of obnoxious people talking, stuffing their faces with popcorn, looking at their ultra bright phones, etc?

Or watch the movie at home, minus the above with all home comforts?

Easy choice for me.

Mr Crispy

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a choice. Watch a movie in a room full of obnoxious people talking, stuffing their faces with popcorn, looking at their ultra bright phones, etc?

Or watch the movie at home, minus the above with all home comforts?

Easy choice for me.

For some of us, that's the experience we get at home. :pac:

Eire Go Brach

The end is close. I won’t buy any digital movies. If they lose the rights. You lose the movies. Does not happen a lot though.

Blu Rays are better quality plus the extras. But they are slow. Streaming does offer convenience.

Watched GOT on Blu Ray. Extras where amazing on that. Really filled in the gaps.

johnny_ultimate

I’m almost certain cinema will be rebound big-time later this year (assuming vaccination goes as planned). Getting out of the house has become a far more valuable prospect than before. When you look at some of the recent hits internationally (https://www.boxofficepro.com/demon-slayer-mugen-train-21-million-opening/)... there’s a potential boom a few more hundred million vaccine doses away.

Dodge

santana75 wrote: »

I think the biggest hit to cinema will be with families. I've been to screenings where it was mostly parents and their children and between the non stop trips to the bathroom, amateur dramatics, and all manner of acting out in the theatre, it all just seemed an exhausting expedition for parents to take on. Not to mention the expense, so I can't imagine many parents opting to travel to the cinema when it'll be so much more convenient and cheaper to stay at home with a big screen.

Not to be facetious but a trip to the cinema with family is often to fill time. Kids films nearly always do well at the cinema. Even poor fare will have an audience

Staying at home is obviously cheaper, but it’s no more relaxing and if a cinema trip can keep kids occupied for 2/3 hours (with travel etc), it’ll continue to be a family pursuit

Back to the topic at hand, we no longer have any disc players in the house. Suggest many families are the same

homerun_homer

Funny to see this thread after I had tried to fix my blue ray player tray because it wouldn't open. I had just binged all of Lost on Disney+ and then got my US box set I've never played out of the attic to watch some extras only to find it doesn't recognise any disc at all now. Do I buy a new player when I don't intend to buy more, but have how many dvds and box sets that I rarely look to play? For music DVDs alone I just might.

Fysh

My expectation is that we'll possibly see optical media go the way of vinyl for music (as in, yes you can get it but it's more spendy) but I doubt it'll disappear, why would the industry eliminate a chance at multiple-dipping on the same film? The main issue with physical media is the up front pressing cost (hence my anticipated pivot to a more vinyl-like "exclusive" offering), but it still has its benefits.

I'm a bit of an odd case, though - I tend to buy physical media for stuff I expect to watch more than once, and rip it for convenience sake. Means I'm not entirely dependent on a single optical drive, but still a bit of a faff.

Skerries

I'll pick up some of my favourite films on 4K Blu-Ray when I eventually buy a PS5 but it won't be as many as normal BR or especially not DVD

eviltimeban

I haven't bought a DVD for a good while; last ones came with the Sky Box Office order. Watched the movie on Sky and the DVDs are still in the shrink wrap.

I'm hesitant to get rid of my DVDs; I have a wall shelf full of them and I'm thinking, what'll I put on the shelves if they're gone! :-)

Plus history has taught us well. All those people who threw out their vinyl for CDs, are now re-buying all the vinyl and getting rid of the CDs. Not saying DVDs are as "cool" as records, but there is something to be said for owning the item. Some deluxe boxes are quite nice and you get all the bonus features.

Banjaxed82

Maybe I'm wrong, but i presume the film industry has lost its bollocks on a lot of films with the absence of cinema. Do people drop money on VOD as quick as they would on a cinema outing? I'm guessing not by a considerable margin.

I don't understand why there's this binary choice between home TV and cinema. They're not even in the same ballpark to me. There's an inevitability about watching a film at the cinema.

If you click your fingers tomorrow and got rid of every single cinema like they never existed, I'd hedge my bets that it wouldn't be long before some bright spark will come up with an idea of sticking a load of people into a huge room with a massive fook off screen...etc, etc

It's a communal experience. Some don't like to watch it that way, but given the worldwide cinema box office or even just the Irish box office itself, it proves there's a huge appetite, which I imagine will be turbocharged coming out of this pandemic.

NewbridgeIR

Wedwood wrote: »

Over the course of the pandemic, I’ve bought a lot more movies via iTunes/Apple TV, than ordered Blu-ray.

One added benefit of buying the movies on iTunes is that when the 4K version of a movie you’ve purchased is released, you usually get a free upgrade from 1080p. While 4K bit rates are higher on the disc, there’s not much difference in video quality to the casual viewer unless you really scrutinise the images.

I was originally sceptical about ditching physical media for collecting movies, however I don’t see much reason to purchase a disc again anytime soon.

Is this the end for movies on physical media ?

I buy BDs on the Indicator, Arrow, Eureka, BFI and Criterion labels. Many of them sell out of their print runs. No shortage of buyers. Still buy DVDs of television series (many of which are not on Netflix).

jimmycrackcorm

I remember years ago, downloading movies from torrents, writing to DVD, downloading and printing CD covers.
I never watched a single one twice and I hardly watched any of them, but the collection looked nice.

If physical media is to survive, then it must be part of something collectible. This is before you even get into the area of how can I buy something to actually play it...

S.M.B.

The only aspect of physical media I miss is the bonus content that often comes with it. There's absolutely no reason that I can think of why this content couldn't be made available outside of outside of physical releases beyond there being no major incentive to do so.

Nigel Fairservice

When I first started working about 20 years ago one of my favourite things to do was to go into HMV after work on a Friday evening and pick up a few DVDs. I'd spend ages browsing and reading the backs of the cases.

I haven't bought a DVD in a couple of years and all my DVDs are in a box in my parent's house. I still buy movies but I buy them on the Apple store these days. The physical discs don't take up space in the living room. Digital copies of movies are convenient. I saw Tom Cruise on Graham Norton recently telling a story from the set of the Colour of Money. I hadn't seen the movie in years and got the urge to watch it there and then (I do own the DVD but it's at my parents house in another county). I went on to the Apple app on my tv and bought it for €5 and was watching it less that 5 minutes later. I do love that element of digital media.

I think physical media will become more niche as time moves on. Some people are attached to vinyl/cds, others like DVDs/blurays and others again like books. I have abandoned physical music and movies but I still love my books. I do have a Kindle but I still can't stop buying books.

johnny_ultimate

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

I’m almost certain cinema will be rebound big-time later this year (assuming vaccination goes as planned). Getting out of the house has become a far more valuable prospect than before. When you look at some of the recent hits internationally (https://www.boxofficepro.com/demon-slayer-mugen-train-21-million-opening/)... there’s a potential boom a few more hundred million vaccine doses away.

Well I'd expect everything that hasn't collapsed to bounce back somewhat given the chance.
But the real question is where it'll be in 18 months time. Will it be above where it was 18 months ago?

NewbridgeIR

eviltimeban wrote: »

Plus history has taught us well. All those people who threw out their vinyl for CDs, are now re-buying all the vinyl and getting rid of the CDs.

A lot of people abandoning CDs for vinyl ignored or never bought the format in the lean years (1990-2007). However new CDs still outsell new LPs by a long shot. 83% - 17% in 2020 (UK figures). I still buy both formats and have done so for 40 and 35 years respectively. It's not an either / or situation as there are plenty instances when CD is more practical (multi-disc releases, live sets, ambient, classical, long form improv pieces, V/A compilations)

Wedwood

Just to add to my OP, like many of the comments here, I’ve collected movies on almost every home format VHS/DVD/Blu-ray/VCD/HDDVD and don’t see physical media ever fully disappearing, however, it might reduce into niche areas while mainstream movie rentals and purchases go entirely online.

Another sign of the times is the reduced choice of DVD/Blu-ray players in stores. 5 years ago you had a great choice of disc players and 5.1 speaker systems ranging from budget to high end, nowadays it’s a few cheap disc players, very few 5.1 systems and loads of sound bars.

the_syco

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr matie. I'm pretty sure I've still VHS somewhere. And a few DVD's. Don't think I've any BluRay.

Physical format will stay. VOD is great, if you have the broadband. And there's plenty of places that don't. Also, boxsets. Netflix may have your favourite show now, but not forever.

coinop

This is a forum for film buffs so of course most posters will laud the benefits of physical media and brag about their extensive DVD collection. The general public, however, will opt for the convenience of streaming as evidenced by the explosion in popularity of Disney+, Netflix and the rest. Looking at my own DVD collection, there are not too many I've watched more than twice. All they're doing is gathering dust these days. I think some people like to use their collection to express their personality and virtue signal to their peers, same way a hipster might wave his obscure synthwave vinyl collection in your face to show the world how quirky and individual he is.

Regarding the future of cinemas: that's a separate topic. I predict the industry will hobble along for a few years rather than die off completely as casuals will still go see a film maybe once a year instead of five times annually which they may have done pre-pandemic. Studios will pump money into blockbuster sequels that are more likely to turn a profit rather than take a risk on new ideas. Thus cinema will become more homogenized and saturated with cape-shiit while pandering to a global audience to attract the growing middle class in China and India. Expect to see a Chinese Spiderman soon.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I remember years ago, downloading movies from torrents, writing to DVD, downloading and printing CD covers.
I never watched a single one twice and I hardly watched any of them, but the collection looked nice.

You can thank yourself for playing your part in the death of the film industry.

PommieBast

NIMAN wrote: »

On a bigger note, I wonder could this be the beginning of the end for cinema's too? I know its great to go to see a film on the big screen, but I think in the future, people will value convenience, and being able to buy the latest releases and stream them at home might put a lot of folk off actually making the effort to go out to catch it.

Sounds like home video all over again. I also remember the howls from the music industry about iTunes/Kazaa/etc.

dublinman1990

Do I think that movies being sold on physical media will end soon. Far from it because I love buying physical media.

I think Blu-rays have been a relevation to my eyes over the past few years. The picture quality coming from them have been absolutely outstanding. There is nothing else out there that beats physical media because I still think that streaming lacks a lot of bonus features to gain a better insight to film or TV series BTS. My opinion on cinemas is that they will return to a resurgence of returning demand after the pandemic has died off. People do prefer to be together when they are out doing things outside of the house. We do have one of the highest cinema attendances in the EU. I think that status will be still be retained once we are getting back to normal. But it will still be a while before we get back to that point in our lives.

Sad Professor

Even if Netflix never release some of their exclusives on Blu-ray, isn't physical media still the only truly one-stop shop for most films/shows? Even unofficial sources get much of their rips from it. And it's relatively neutral, unlike iTunes which i don't see lasting now that Apple have stepped into the streaming wars. Surely physical media will have to remain if only for that reason?

PommieBast

Sad Professor wrote: »

And it's relatively neutral, unlike iTunes which i don't see lasting now that Apple have stepped into the streaming wars. Surely physical media will have to remain if only for that reason?

Ultimately the only truly trustworthy way of keeping something is if you have control over what it is stored on, and somewhere along the lines that means physical media. iTunes is really just a specialist cloud data store, and plenty have shut down suddenly in the past.

Dodge

PommieBast wrote: »

Ultimately the only truly trustworthy way of keeping something is if you have control over what it is stored on, and somewhere along the lines that means physical media. iTunes is really just a specialist cloud data store, and plenty have shut down suddenly in the past.

The issue will be when it’s no longer financially worth it for the corporations and studios to produce the physical media

As ever, it’s all about profits and if they can’t make it work, they’ll just stop producing them

Potatoeman

On one hand not many people want to store physical media on the other you never really own streaming digital media. The hosting service can withdraw the service for many reasons and forget transferring to someone else. You also need to consider outages of the provider and your internet connection going down. I wouldn’t rely only on streaming. No one reads the terms of service and they can change them at any time. Other than convenience it’s actually not a good service. This is also not looking at cancel culture wanting some movies deplatformed.

dublinman1990

On the topic of iTunes; there will be a VOD ownership lawsuit taking place with Apple in Sacramento; California which is going to look at interpreting the definitions of how you can purchase movies, TV shows & other content from iTunes. This lawsuit will look at whether a download from the iTunes store will be classed as something to "buy" or to "rent" with maybe some changes being made to it's terms of service.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/apple-must-face-lawsuit-for-telling-consumers-they-can-buy-movies-tv-shows

https://www.darkhorizons.com/apple-hit-with-vod-ownership-lawsuit/

Amazon Prime Video is going to face a similar lawsuit after a customer bought some movies from it's store which were subsequently deleted going from what was stipulated in Amazon Prime Video's terms of service.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/amazon-argues-users-dont-actually-own-purchased-prime-video-content

AMKC

I have hundreds of DVDs and many blu Ray's and would never get rid of them. I have not bought many recently because of the Pandemic but there is many I still want to have so will be buying more. I have never watched a movie on a streaming service and never will. I do not use Netflix or any other streaming service at all or much. I do not pay for any of them if I do use them and then the only reason is because the show I want to see is not available on TV so I have to watch it on a computer screen unfortunatly. That is the only time I stream.

techdiver

Streaming quality is still muck compared to high bitrate disks.

Sony are making inroads though with their Bravia Core service which has close to 4K Bluray bitrate (80mbps). At the moment netflix etc top out at 15mbps which isn't good enough for all content. Apple is better but still well below Bravia Core and physical media.

NewbridgeIR

From last week: Cody Ford, the Home Theater Hobbyist, interviews a couple of Arrow Video alumni regarding the state of physical media, namely Kevin Lambert (Head of Acquired Content) and Michael Mackenzie (Senior Producer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wii6XHstzjU

Greyfox

techdiver wrote: »

Streaming quality is still muck compared to high bitrate disks.

I notice a difference but not a huge difference. Physical media will never die but i find having so much choice with what i watch leads me to buying less and less physical media

Tony EH

It's a long way off. Physical will be here for some time to come. But it will probably move to a niche market with the likes of Criterion, Arrow, Second Sight and a few other boutique companies keeping the flame alive.

However, one of the things that will put nails in its coffin are needless equipment upgrades that will just put the "ordinary" punter off. We have 4K out now being pushed as a replacement for Blu Ray, which STILL cannot outsell DVD's to Joe Bloggs. Not only that, there's 8K being touted as the "next step". The vast majority of people simply will not want to bother with 4K and with the plethora of cheapo HDR TV's that are sub par, I don't blame them. I haven't bothered making the leap to 4K setup either as I am just not that bothered, despite knowing that there'll be a qualitative benefit over the standard 1080p HDMI display.

I'm just not arsed as I don't think the benefit will be that much to warrant the time and money spent on doing the research to find out which TV will be the one to replace the satisfactory setup I have at the moment.

One thing I will say about the 4K thing is that it's been responsible for some new 4K scans of the original camera negative of some classic movies that have resulted in some truly lovely Blu's. The 4K's of 'The Thing' and 'Zombie Flesh Eaters' were like seeing the movies for the first time.

But, 8K is just silly overkill, especially when 4K hasn't even begun to get onto a stable footing and I can easily understand why someone would be like "whatever...I'll stream the movie from iTunes on the equipment I bought only a few years ago".

But, as to physical media, it still offers the enthusiast who likes director commentaries, documentaries and extras the best way to "own" the film. I've just bought the boxset of 'Dawn of the Dead', who's transfer promises to be the best that that film has ever seen on home video. That kind of thing just isn't the same with a stream.

PommieBast

Tony EH wrote: »

The vast majority of people simply will not want to bother with 4K and with the plethora of cheapo HDR TV's that are sub par, I don't blame them. I haven't bothered making the leap to 4K setup either as I am just not that bothered, despite knowing that there'll be a qualitative benefit over the standard 1080p HDMI display.

Unless it is being pumped out to a screen measured in meters, I suspect that a lot of people simply don't have eyesight good enough to notice anything better than a megapixel or two. For computer work I find 4k a bit of a strain.

Inviere

Sad Professor wrote: »

Even if Netflix never release some of their exclusives on Blu-ray, isn't physical media still the only truly one-stop shop for most films/shows? Even unofficial sources get much of their rips from it.

No, the big 'scene' rippers have access to/have broken the DRM encryption used by all the big content streamers (Amazon, Netflix, Apple, etc). They can literally pull the content straight from the providers servers in full original quality. The methods have not been publicly released to date. Granted blu-ray bitrates are higher, but there's no quality loss when considering a 'scene' rip, compared to the source file. Unlike say screen recording software which DIY users use, which is garbage.

Snake Plisken

Picture there is not that much of a difference between a 4K disc and say an apple stream, not that I notice on a 65" oled. But where streams fail is in the sound dept, streamed audio nowhere as good as uncompressed audio on a 4K Disc. I like the American.model of 4K releases. Where the studios give you a Movies Anywhere code in the box that ports to google play and your apple account in 4K or you can just sell it on (I've bought a lot from facebook groups and sites and they work fine).
Recently bought the Prestige 4K from Amazon Spain for €15 which was a bargain 4K Disc standard blu-ray and an Extras disc. Whilst I'm not buying as much physical media as I did in the past I will still buy my favourite movies on the latest physical format.
My next purchase will be the Indiana Jones boxset.

B.A._Baracus

They say it was the PS2 that helped establish dvds. The PS3 then helped establish Blu-ray's.
Gaming has always been a corner stone of physical media. But with the ps5 and Xbox series X offering digital only consoles, you'd have to figure the ps6 / Xbox 5 will be digital only by default. Which they should be out in about 7-8 years.

Should that happen, then we are into the day and age of no more physical disks imo.

dmn22

Used to be fond of collecting Blurays but finding myself buying more and more 4K films on Apple TV.

They're often like €5 which is too tempting as well as the convenience of having access to them wherever I go.

Tony EH

PommieBast wrote: »

Unless it is being pumped out to a screen measured in meters, I suspect that a lot of people simply don't have eyesight good enough to notice anything better than a megapixel or two. For computer work I find 4k a bit of a strain.

Sure, the bigger the screen, the more one would notice. And on the majority of sitting room TV's that just isn't a factor for most people, you're correct.

But, at the same time, you don't need to be eagle eyed to notice a difference between a 4K and a 1080p rendering of the same image. It is there and you'll see it when studying it side by side. However, and this is the important bit, when that image is moving the difference is often imperceptible on normal TV's.

Now, some people will swear up an down that they will see the difference in the moving image of course. Take a jaunt over to Blu ray.com and see a whole host of arguments about 4K. But personally, I doubt that they are seeing what they telling themselves they're seeing. There's also a tendency for some people to think that things are "better" because they're the newest or latest version, which is sometimes not the case. There have definitely been cases of remastered movies where I've thought the older master was definitely better and I find some 4K movies to be particularly dark too. Also HDR can often make an image look artificial to me, because the colours can be too vivid.

But, the key is what the image was scanned at during the mastering. A scan at 4K will yield a better result than a scan at 2K or less and thus produce a better blu ray product, whether the blu ray itself puts out a 4K HDR 10+ or 1080p HDMI image. For instance, the Criterion disc of 'Night of the Living Dead' is 1080p, but was scanned at 4K from the original negative and the result was like seeing the film for the first time. It's fantastic. But I don't think it would gain much by the disc being an actual 4K output. Although it is a B+W movie so HDR doesn't factor into it. But I'm speaking in terms of image clarity.

I think that some people confuse things when they compare older scans used for past releases with a new 4K remastering and think that their 4K disc is better just because its says 4K on the box. No doubt there will be people that will swear blind the same about 8K if it ever becomes a thing.

PommieBast

Tony EH wrote: »

But, the key is what the image was scanned at during the mastering. A scan at 4K will yield a better result than a scan at 2K or less and thus produce a better blu ray product, whether the blu ray itself puts out a 4K HDR 10+ or 1080p HDMI image. For instance, the Criterion disc of 'Night of the Living Dead' is 1080p, but was scanned at 4K from the original negative and the result was like seeing the film for the first time. It's fantastic. But I don't think it would gain much by the disc being an actual 4K output.

I suspect that the newer technology that does 4k scans includes improvements other than just the resolution bump. The compression results are likely better even if it is still using the older bitstream format.


Been years since I looked at H.264 et al but if I still did I suspect every film I see would look rotten..