Abortion law in Northern Ireland: difference from law in Britain.

political analyst

Late in 2019, the ban on abortion in Northern Ireland was abolished under legislation passed by the British House of Commons.

Anti-abortion campaigners have said that the law that facilitates abortion in Northern Ireland makes it easier for a woman to have an abortion in NI than it is for a woman in Britain, where the Abortion Act of 1967 provides a defence for (as opposed to decriminalising) abortion and states that two doctors must sign-off on it.

When the NI abortion ban was abolished, why wasn't the Abortion Act simply amended to apply to NI?

Why is abortion in NI not being subject to the same rules as abortion in Britain?

BattleCorp

political analyst wrote: »

Why is abortion in NI not being subject to the same rules as abortion in Britain?

There's no requirement for Northern Ireland to have the same laws as the UK.

NI legislation varies in many areas from UK legislation. One example being firearms legislation. Pistols are banned in the UK yet widely available (legally) in NI.

political analyst

BattleCorp wrote: »

There's no requirement for Northern Ireland to have the same laws as the UK.

NI legislation varies in many areas from UK legislation. One example being firearms legislation. Pistols are banned in the UK yet widely available (legally) in NI.

That's because some civilians in NI are authorised to have personal protection firearms for obvious reasons.

By the way, you meant "in Britain". The UK's full name is 'United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland'.

Losty Dublin

The circumstances in the North are different because abortion access was included as an amendment in the NI Formation Act of 2019, this being the act concerning the inability of MLA's to form a government. The relevant amendment stated that NI's law would adhere to the recommendations of a UN report concerning abortion access if no assembly had been formed by 21st October. No Assembly ministers were appointed by then so power fell to the Secretary of State for NI to introduce abortion on a more liberalised basis. This also included the repeal of two sections of an Victorian law that was effectively used to legally ban access to virtually all terminations.

However, access is still restricted because the reformed Assembly have blocked funding to the NHS for procedures.

Same sex marriage came to NI under the same 2019 act as well.

GerardKeating

political analyst wrote: »

Why is abortion in NI not being subject to the same rules as abortion in Britain?

The different regions of the UK have different laws and legal systems. Scottish juries even have the option of three different verdicts in a trial.

political analyst

GerardKeating wrote: »

The different regions of the UK have different laws and legal systems. Scottish juries even have the option of three different verdicts in a trial.

Northern Ireland is, like England & Wales, a common-law jurisdiction. The UK government was responsible for the justice system in NI from 1972 to 2007.

Peregrinus

political analyst wrote: »

Northern Ireland is, like England & Wales, a common-law jurisdiction. The UK government was responsible for the justice system in NI from 1972 to 2007.

Nevertheless, the fact that England and Wales and NI are both common law jurisdictions does not mean that they have to have identical laws. The whole point of devolution is to facilitate them not having identical laws. And, even before devolution was ever thought of, when laws for all parts of the UK were made in Westminster, Westminster regularly made different laws for different parts of the UK.

You can criticize NI abortion law on any number of grounds, but the fact that it's not the same as abortion law in England and Wales is not one of them. Why should it be the same as in England and Wales? There's nothing magic about England and Wales to make it the imperishable standard against which all other laws are to be measured.

political analyst

Peregrinus wrote: »

Nevertheless, the fact that England and Wales and NI are both common law jurisdictions does not mean that they have to have identical laws. The whole point of devolution is to facilitate them not having identical laws. And, even before devolution was ever thought of, when laws for all parts of the UK were made in Westminster, Westminster regularly made different laws for different parts of the UK.

You can criticize NI abortion law on any number of grounds, but the fact that it's not the same as abortion law in England and Wales is not one of them. Why should it be the same as in England and Wales? There's nothing magic about England and Wales to make it the imperishable standard against which all other laws are to be measured.

How are female residents of NI who have abortions different from female residents of England & Wales who have abortions?

Grolschevik

political analyst wrote: »

How are female residents of NI who have abortions different from female residents of England & Wales who have abortions?

They are resident in NI.

Peregrinus

political analyst wrote: »

How are female residents of NI who have abortions different from female residents of England & Wales who have abortions?

How are female residents in England and Wales different from female residents of NI? So why aren't you calling for the law in England and Wales to be aligned with that of NI?

For that matter, how are female residents of NI, or of England and Wales, different from female residents of, say, Mongolia? So why shouldn't both England and Wales and NI bring their abortion laws into line with those of Mongolia?

You can certainly argue, if you want to, that there are transcendent moral and political principals which dictate what the ideal abortion law should look like, and that all jurisdictions should align their abortion laws with this ideal.

But I can't see any basis for arbitrarily selecting England and Wales, and arguing that other jurisdictions should align themselves with England and Wales. Why England and Wales, in heaven's name?

(And the question has particular traction in the context of NI. To a large extent, the political problems that NI faces are a legacy of persistent attempts to govern first Ireland, and later NI, as if it were England and Wales. The outcome has been, frankly, disastrous.)

political analyst

Peregrinus wrote: »

How are female residents in England and Wales different from female residents of NI? So why aren't you calling for the law in England and Wales to be aligned with that of NI?

For that matter, how are female residents of NI, or of England and Wales, different from female residents of, say, Mongolia? So why shouldn't both England and Wales and NI bring their abortion laws into line with those of Mongolia?

You can certainly argue, if you want to, that there are transcendent moral and political principals which dictate what the ideal abortion law should look like, and that all jurisdictions should align their abortion laws with this ideal.

But I can't see any basis for arbitrarily selecting England and Wales, and arguing that other jurisdictions should align themselves with England and Wales. Why England and Wales, in heaven's name?

Because it's the largest jurisdiction of the UK - in both size and population - and NI has the same type of legal system.

Peregrinus wrote: »

(And the question has particular traction in the context of NI. To a large extent, the political problems that NI faces are a legacy of persistent attempts to govern first Ireland, and later NI, as if it were England and Wales. The outcome has been, frankly, disastrous.)

How?

icdg

England and Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland have different laws for many things. It is not a case that when the Acts of Union were passed Scottish and (Anglo-) Irish law were overnight suddenly replaced by English law! Indeed the Scottish Acts of Union explicitly preserved the Scottish legal system. (Anglo-) Irish law was always similar to England - Poynings Law saw to that - but never exactly the same.

They are separate legal jurisdictions. They have their own separate courts systems linked only by the Supreme Court in London. Scotland has a completely different legal system. NI follows England and Wales in lots of matters but goes it’s own way in lots of things (for example, NI land law still more closely resembles the Republic of Ireland, because it diverged during the Land War when Ireland was still a single jurisdiction).

OP, I think the answer you are really looking for here is a political one, not a legal one. There may well be differing underlying policy reasons for the law in one jurisdiction being different to another. But that is for the politicians, not the lawyers to answer.

Peregrinus

political analyst wrote: »

Because it's the largest jurisdiction of the UK - in both size and population - and NI has the same type of legal system.

The fact that England and Wales is the largest of the UK's jurisdictions seems irrelevant to me. Can you explain how it's being the larger jurisdiction leads to any reason at all for the other jurisdictions to mimic it? 'Cause I'm not seeing it.

And the fact that it has "the same type of legal system" also seems irrelevant. I don't see how Scotland being a civil law rather than a common law jurisdiction means that, to adopt your own criterion, "female residents of Scotland who have abortions are different from female residents of England & Wales who have abortions".

political analyst wrote: »

How?

Are you serious? English landlord-and-tenant laws worked well in England, where the landowning class felt some responsibility for the welfare of the rural population, but when replicated in Ireland they produced the land wars, because this basic identity between landowners and workers was lacking. English first-past-the-post electoral laws sustain a functioning democracy at Westminster, but when mapped onto Northern Ireland produced a one-party, sectarian state. These examples could be multiplied by anyone with even an entry-level knowledge of Irish history.

Ireland within the UK was one of the worst-governed countries in Europe, and this was noted by contemporary commentators. This is all the more striking because England itself was generally regareded as one of the best-governed countries. And, time and again, we find that we can account for the misgovernment of Ireland by identifying attempts to govern Ireland as though it were England; the ideologically-driven assumption that what works in England must also work in Ireland.

ohnonotgmail

political analyst wrote: »

Because it's the largest jurisdiction of the UK - in both size and population - and NI has the same type of legal system.

the same type of legal system but a different jurisdiction. what is it about that you are having difficulty with?