Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539725#Comment_118539725

So why is the disclaimer in that article?

Why did you ignore it?

Why does the article not state what you claim at in it's conclusions?

Why is there no other evidence beyond this one article that the vaccines aren't effective?

Why does all the other evidence show the opposite?

Why do you, like all the conspiracy theorists on this thread refuse to answer simple direct questions?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539739#Comment_118539739

With all the whinging anti-vaxxers have done about you in this thread, you’d think this offer would have been pounced on.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539724#Comment_118539724

So you now seem to be backing down from the claim that EMA made any changes due to safety concerns. So why did you make that claim in the first place?

Would also still like to know what it was that spooked you about vaccine safety between your second jab and December? What safety issues appeared then which scared you so much?

Does the fact that you are still alive and well and able to head out to eat in a restaurant today not go someway towards showing that the vaccines have done you no harm?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539761#Comment_118539761

You'd think that the chance to rub our noses in the statement from the EMA would be tempting enough.

The odd occasion we are wrong, they have no issue jumping down our throats on it.

Yet now, are we supposed to believe that he does have this evidence and can show it's true, just isn't arsed to?

He isn't even acknowledging the challenge cause he knows he can't answer it.

Dohnjoe

"Only three years or so into my vaccine journey, my old fears of the medical community came flooding back. I was suspicious of how these vaccines were supposedly "made in record time." 

I found myself in the camp of wanting to wait a few years to see what happened. 

Then you know what I did? I stopped doing my own research.

Who am I, a barely Grade 10-educated person, to find information that the professionals weren't finding? Instead I began consuming the research and studies done by people who trained and studied for years in those fields. They could discover the truth much more successfully than any blogger or YouTuber."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/childhood-anti-vaccination-messages-rewiring-mind-1.6325670

Relevant views from an ex-antivaxxer.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539790#Comment_118539790

The reason is because it was picked out of his arse like every other claim he made. There is no backing it up because there was no intelligence put into the thought process before the verbal puke started.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539589#Comment_118539589

So yet again you fail to answer the most basic of questions.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118539219#Comment_118539219

"A key measure of intelligence is the ability to change your position on an issue."

You haven't changed your position on the issue despite overwhelming evidence that you are wrong.

Does that mean you are of low intelligence?

hometruths

More data out of the UK today. Comparing case rates per 100k boosted vs case rates per 100k unvaccinated, broken down by age:

So in every age group except under 18s case rate per 100k boosted is higher than case rate per 100k unvaccinated.

From 30 to 80+ the case rate is really very significantly higher.

oisinog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541002#Comment_118541002

As we already know the Vaccine does not stop you from getting it

Looking at the figures provide above you are 3 times more likely to end up in hospital if you are unvaccinated 6 times more likely to die if you are unvaccinated.

Why did you only share part of the table you agree with and not the full data.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541145#Comment_118541145

I agree with the fact that vaccines are helping people avoid serious illness and death. Thus far the data seems clear on that, to me.

Hoop66

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541002#Comment_118541002

Again, you're looking at 1 specific set of results and (conveniently?) omitting the rest which show...guess what?

You cut & paste that table to show the results you wanted, so you must surely have been aware of what the rest of the table shows. So why did you do that?

There's also this footnote, specifically pertaining to the columns you posted:

"1 Comparing case rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated populations should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 infection. Vaccine effectiveness has been formally estimated from a number of different sources and is summarised on pages 4 to 15 in this report"

Did you forget to include this in your "analysis"?

EDIT: I see @oisinog has already pointed it out.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541168#Comment_118541168

So why are you posting it in a vaccine safety thread? What does it have to do with vaccine safety and what is the conspiracy?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541182#Comment_118541182

There is consistent data coming out of the UK which at the very least suggest there is a possibility that the vaccinated are more likely to be infected with covid than the unvaccinated. If true that is undoubtedly a safety issue with the vaccines.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541211#Comment_118541211

But there’s not, as has been pointed out to you many times. The disclaimers are written in simple English and you are ignoring them.

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541211#Comment_118541211

There is consistent data from over the last several hundred years which shows that the number of pirates is directly related to global warming.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541221#Comment_118541221

I'm not ignoring them at all. I've read them and carefully considered them many times, the very first being when the disclaimers were initially published a few months ago when the surprising data first showed up. At that stage I thought maybe the explanations for the data could be plausible.

But after many weeks of data showing the same pattern, getting worse, the explanations as to why the case rates per 100k in the vaccinated are higher than in the unvaccinated are no longer plausible. In my opinion.

Whatever your opinion on the plausibility, you surely must agree the following is not definitive, but rather based on assumptions?

The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are unadjusted crude rates that do not take into account underlying statistical biases in the data and there are likely to be systematic differences between these 2 population groups. For example:

• people who are fully vaccinated may be more health conscious and therefore more likely to get tested for COVID-19 and so more likely to be identified as a case

• many of those who were at the head of the queue for vaccination are those at higher risk from COVID-19 due to their age, their occupation, their family circumstances or because of underlying health issues

• people who are fully vaccinated and people who are unvaccinated may behave differently, particularly with regard to social interactions and therefore may have differing levels of exposure to COVID-19

• people who have never been vaccinated are more likely to have caught COVID-19 in the weeks or months before the period of the cases covered in the report. This gives them some natural immunity to the virus which may have contributed to a lower case rate in the past few weeks

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541168#Comment_118541168

so.....

the vaccines are safe then

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541270#Comment_118541270

Why do you think the notices were put there? Do you always ignore warning notices?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541466#Comment_118541466

I never ignore warning notices. I read them and decide whether or not to heed the warning. Normal behaviour.

You didn't answer my question, would you agree that the offered explanations are not definitive, but are based on assumptions?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541516#Comment_118541516

You are ignoring them here.

When experts in the data say that it can’t be used for certain things I’d tend to trust them.

Your reading reminds me of Homer, except he had an excuse that he couldn’t hear some of the message, whereas you choose to ignore it:

https://youtu.be/uKeU0qtTY2o

Dohnjoe

Amazing. Wonder how he'd get on with Ebola or Yellow fever

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541540#Comment_118541540

It is a caveat based on a set of assumptions, estimates or best guesses.

They are saying here is the data on the number of cases that are actually confirmed by testing.

But please disregard it because we have some other data based on our estimates that says something else completely.

if you wish to follow that advice, no problem.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541583#Comment_118541583

Your university of Facebook PHD does not supersede the knowledge of those who compiled the reports. You already said they vaccines were safe, and now you’re nitpicking at something you don’t understand to try and prove a point that a world of experts don’t agree with because you have nowhere else to go.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541583#Comment_118541583

Ignorance of something is not an argument against it.

If you can't interpret the data correctly, despite other poster's best efforts to help you, okay, but no one can help you with that. The only alternative explanation is you genuinely think you've "spotted" something the experts haven't - which is the basis of literally every anti-vax post anywhere.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541663#Comment_118541663

I have not said the vaccines are safe, I have said I don’t know.

i have said that the data thus far has clearly supported that they are effective against severe disease and death, less so against infection.

And Omicron means thus far could change very quickly. We really only have 6 weeks worth of data from Omicron.

that is not enough yet to confidently claim the vaccine is effective against infection, or even death.

it seems very foolish to totally disregard what is actually happening in last weeks case numbers, because of a disclaimer first written, long before Omicron was even heard of.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541671#Comment_118541671

I havent actually felt like anybody has been trying to help me interpret the data, more like they’re telling me to ignore the data, because that’s what the footnote says.

but i’m Very happy to take you in good faith, so if you can tell me how you interpret the data it might help me understand how you think I should interpret the data?

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541714#Comment_118541714

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541168#Comment_118541168

Yeah, you seem to contradict yourself here. On one hand you are saying that they are working, which to any normal person would identify them as safe. On the other you are unsure. Devils advocates is a standard anti-vax method of looking foolish.

The worldwide data shows that vaccines are overwhelmingly safe. You have provided nothing to counter this. How are millions of experts wrong and you are right?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541813#Comment_118541813

Just because a drug is effective at doing something that does not mean it is safe?! That's utter nonsense.

You seem to keep coming back to asking me specifically about safety as a suggestion that saying the vaccine is not effective is somehow OT in a thread about vaccine safety. But I have already addressed this.

If vaccinated people are getting infected at twice the rate of unvaccinated people that is clearly a safety issue.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118541903#Comment_118541903

Jaysus. Quick, get on Facebook and post your study and findings. You obviously know much more than all the experts. Storm RTE studios when the 6 o’clock news is on to let the world know about the findings of your research.