Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523534#Comment_119523534

I have said I felt pressurised, but I have repeatedly said I was never coerced into getting vaccinated. But plenty of other people were.

Kind of strange if I say my personal experience is I was not coerced it is considered evidence that blows my claim out of the water that other people were coerced, yet if I say I think vaccines are not very good at preventing transmission and infection because everybody I know who's vaccinated has had Covid it's considered laughable to use personal experience as the basis of any opinion. Go figure.

And no he wasn't relying on informed consent. He was erring on the side of caution because, in his medical opinion, he was unsure whether it was safe or not. He did not want to make that decision. Weirdly, he had no problem with me making the decision on whether it was safe or not.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523581#Comment_119523581

And no he wasn't relying on informed consent. He was erring on the side of caution because, in his medical opinion, he was unsure whether it was safe or not. He did not want to make that decision. Weirdly, he had no problem with me making the decision on whether it was safe or not.

Did he directly say that he was unsure if it was safe or not?

if I say I think vaccines are not very good at preventing transmission and infection because everybody I know who's vaccinated has had Covid it's considered laughable to use personal experience as the basis of any opinion. 

Because it is laughable to use that biased, unverifiable personal experience when you know full well that the actual scientific evidence is and have cited it yourself.

Also, since you're still trying to use this argument, In my personal experience, no one I know was coerced in anyway to get the vaccine. Therefore there's no coercion.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523581#Comment_119523581

"one of the doctors at the centre"

i take it it wasnt your own personal doctor then?

assuming it was a man, then he would have no idea at all about your medical history, your conditions, your anaphylaxis reactions etc

so it sounds like he was 100% correct not to give you medical opinion seeing as he didnt know you from adam, and left the decision up to you yourself as an informed adult.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523581#Comment_119523581

Yeah, informed consent. He let you make up your own mind. No coercion either as you were free to go.

People have free will with regard to the vaccine. Even if they decide to go to doctors, vaccination centre, or pharmacy for the vaccine, they can opt out at any stage until the plunger is pressed on the syringe. There is no coercion.

odyssey06

Popping this in case there are questions about mysterious rises in dementia or childhood seizures:

The risk of dementia was elevated in those aged over 65 for up to two years following covid-19, with 4.5 per cent diagnosed with dementia in the two years after covid-19, compared with 3.3 per cent in the control group...

2.6 per cent of children infected with the coronavirus developed epilepsy or seizures within two years after infection, compared with 1.3 per cent for other respiratory infections.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(22)00260-7/fulltext

WealthyB

Popped back into this thread to catch up and I see old arguments being rehashed under a different guise.. I'd suggest that some here shouldn't even entertain nonsense semantic arguments around mandates and coercion.

About two weeks ago I posted about the ICCL statement disagreeing with coercive methods being used against the Irish population to take Covid injections, mainly in the form of the "vaccine passport".

No-one disagreed.

So put this one to bed once and for all.

Irish people were coerced into taking a Covid injection.

If someone wants to argue otherwise, and claim they're more qualified than the Irish Council Of Civil Liberties on this, then let them put their medals on the table. But they won't.

At this stage there's more sense being talked in the actual coronavirus forum than on this thread which, to me, seems dominated by a small few, determined to obfuscate at every given opportunity.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527036#Comment_119527036

I didn't realise the ICCL had been appointed infallible judge and jury.

Have you reviewed every other ICCL statement, presumably you agree with them all entirely and without reservation?

And we're all expected to do likewise with every statement made?

For example, they proclaim the "Special Criminal Court a fundamental denial of Constitutional rights to a fair trial."

Is this an indisputable statement? Then why haven't taken a Supreme Court case and won?

https://www.ihrec.ie/supreme-court-dismisses-appeal-on-continued-existence-of-the-special-criminal-court/

So no, they are not infallible legal experts whose proclamations must be accepted without reservation.

And oh look, they say 'coercive methods', is that the same as coercion???

Do they explain how requiring a vaccine passport to patronise a restaurant is coercive?

Do they cite case law establishing how the methods constitute coercive methods?

Do we have an opinion from a former attorney general or a senior counsel or barrister to this effect? If you want to talk about 'medals'?

Or is it the political statement of an NGO made without reference to specific expertise?

I'm calling weasel words.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527036#Comment_119527036

At this stage there's more sense being talked in the actual coronavirus forum than on this thread which, to me, seems dominated by a small few, determined to obfuscate at every given opportunity.

Prompted by this I just looked in on on the covid forum for first time in ages, and wow the mood has changed, with posters openly acknowledging the covid hysteria, the nonsense slavery to the 'science' and the 'experts', the futility of yet another booster etc. Quite the turn around but great to see.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527238#Comment_119527238

We were just ahead of the curve hometruths..

At least, in retrospect we'll have been on the right side of history..

The lads can twist and turn whatever they like, when it came down to it they were the fascists..

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527346#Comment_119527346

Lol. Remind us how you guys were ahead of the curve when you were claiming that the vaccines were responsible for hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of deaths.

Or when you were claiming that the vaccines were causing infertility.

Or when you were claiming that the vaccines had tracking nanotechnology.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527036#Comment_119527036

But no one I know was coerced. So according to the arguments here, this means that there was no coercion.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527036#Comment_119527036

Those few you mention hangs out here just because they (up until very recently) were allowed to slag and insult everyone at will. That was how they used to stifle any debate. They wont be frequenting main forum as that style is not allowed in there. Still a long way to get to the same standard here but at least they are no longer allowed to openly mock and insult everyone they feel like.

Yeah, quite a pivot - most of the post made there would earn you ban just a few months ago because you know, science.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528009#Comment_119528009

But again, asking people to explain things isn't stifling debate.

Asking people to explain the evidence they use to make their conclusions isn't stifling debate.

Asking people why they spread misinformation they know is misinformation isn't stifling debate.

Ignoring and dodging these things though...

I'm also still interested why you guys think that your posts "just asking questions" really earn you bans.

Why do you think that Boards is trying to stifle you? Are they part of a conspiracy?

hometruths

Social media across the board has been stifling debate, banning users for "spreading misinformation" but that is changing everywhere.

YouTube is a good example. Up until recently this was considered misinformation:

Claims that COVID-19 vaccines do not reduce risk of contracting COVID-19

They changed that a few days ago to this:

Claims that COVID-19 vaccines do not reduce risk of serious illness or death

One of the most notable hallmarks of the whole pandemic has been stifling debate, to claim otherwise is just another absurd example of "That never happened!"

And let's all acknowledge the role King Mob and the lads played in stifling debate across the forum..

Anything in any way negative about lockdowns or vaccines in any other forum was sent here, where the lads harassed and harangued, did everything they could to smear and mock, and ensured that the signal to noise ratio was such so that anyone who stumbled across it would most likely just see pro vaccine opinion, and anything negative being mocked..

Big Bag of Chips

@[Deleted User] , if you have a problem with a post or posters report it. The poster you mention has been addressed. Anything else is off topic and backseat moderating.

All posters are reminded this thread is to discuss Covid Vaccines and any conspiracy surrounding them. If posters would like to continue discussing this topic on this thread then please do so.

If you want a general discussion or personal arguments please go elsewhere.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528172#Comment_119528172

Not really. As the virus/pandemic has evolved, advice, guidelines and rules have changed. Likewise rules on social media.

In response to individuals who put out blatant disinfo on medical advice, social media sites have adopted different approaches, and often that approach can change and evolve. For example, on Boards, anti-vaxx stuff was allowed on the "After Hours" forum, now it's mostly relegated to this forum, where the handful of proponents reach a much smaller audience.

People who engage in disinfo always paint themselves as the victims of "stifled debate" or "anti-free speech". It's the usual playbook.

I guess just be happy you have some platform for your views, increasingly I've noticed sites are taking firmer attitudes against this type of crankery and are using various methods to deplatform it. Also, there are always alternatives available, for example those banned from Youtube often to go Bitchute to peddle their pseudo-science and quackery.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528009#Comment_119528009

Always the victim, but never of your own views.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528419#Comment_119528419

Not really. As the virus/pandemic has evolved, advice, guidelines and rules have changed. Likewise rules on social media.

It will be interesting to see if YouTube changes back to "Claims that COVID-19 vaccines do not reduce risk of contracting COVID-19" when this new variant specific booster is approved.

I suspect they won't.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528440#Comment_119528440

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. The virus mutates, the vaccines will evolve, who knows what the situation will be in the future, and what the respective restrictions will be.

Anti-vaxxers are constantly changing their angle of attack. Prior to the pandemic they fixated on isolated cases, during the pandemic they fixated on efficacy, now their main attack is the "long term" safety. In several years they'll have to find another new angle or possibly revert back to an old one. Social media platforms will have to adapt to that.

One thing that is obvious, people are getting more and more sick of disinfo and lies masquerading as "debate".

moonage

To those of you who got the jabs, what information was given to you about what exactly to do if you had any adverse or suspected adverse reactions to the jabs? Presumably after each jab you were given a leaflet with the procedure for reporting adverse reactions and the importance of doing so. Could someone give a link to this leaflet?

Also, did you have to sign something before getting each jab, and if so, what was it?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119528172#Comment_119528172

Ok. Why do you believe they are really doing this?

kernkraft500

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119527036#Comment_119527036

It's hilarious, the people who have a problem with the mandate and coercion argument, are the people who don't understand it, or just flat out refuse to be told different...

ah well, keeping the solicitors in pocket anyway, easy money for them with arguing about stuff that is defined in legal dictionaries...

kernkraft500

@[Deleted User] @hometruths @moonage @patnor1011 @WealthyB

why you guys hanging about here if the COVID forum is now the place to be for truth seekers?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534418#Comment_119534418

I'm probably banned..

kernkraft500

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534641#Comment_119534641

Just tell them you're ahead of the curve, I'm sure they'll be happy to have you back

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534715#Comment_119534715

I did wander in to one of the threads a few days ago..they'd probably agree..

kernkraft500

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534723#Comment_119534723

that's the spirit!

Anyway..

https://www.eugyppius.com/p/exhaustive-study-of-german-mortality?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=share&triedSigningIn=true

https://arkmedic.substack.com/p/australias-excess-death-toll-just

And apparently 'unknown causes' is now the leading cause of death in Alberta, Canada..

I'm starting to think that when Gates said they could reduce the population by 2 billion if they did a good job with vaccines, maybe he just meant that, instead of the many complex explanations the lads here rolled out to explain it away..

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119534798#Comment_119534798

And yet, from England and Wales:

• The year-to-date (January to July) Age-standardised mortality rates in 2022 was significantly lower than most years since our data time series began in 2001 (except for 2019 in England, and 2014 and 2019 in Wales) in both England (944.3 deaths per 100,000 people) and Wales (1,019.3 deaths per 100,000 people).

So basically, when you adjust for demographic changes over times, and exclude 2020 -> 2022 has one of the lowest excess deaths of the century.

I linked a study above showing:

The risk of dementia was elevated in those aged over 65 for up to two years following covid-19, with 4.5 per cent diagnosed with dementia in the two years after covid-19, compared with 3.3 per cent in the control group...

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(22)00260-7/fulltext

And the #1 cause of death in England and Wales:

Dementia & Alzheimers Disease.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/monthlymortalityanalysisenglandandwales/july2022

As for Alberta:

It’s true that, according to data published by Service Alberta’s Vital Statistics database, there were 3,362 deaths in Alberta in 2021 in which “other ill-defined and unknown causes” was listed as a cause of death, making it the leading listed cause of death in the province. But the government there has since clarified that some of those deaths were still under investigation and the cause of death would eventually be updated. There’s no evidence to suggest a significant number of deaths have been caused by the Covid-19 vaccines in Canada.

https://fullfact.org/health/unknown-causes-not-linked-covid-vaccines/