Covid vaccines - thread banned users in First Post

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544691#Comment_118544691

“The vaccines are safe, there are very good vaccines but we are now focusing on the medical benefits of the individual child and we don’t see that the benefits are great enough for us to recommend for the whole group,” Britta Bjorklund of the Public Health Agency said.

“We don’t see that we want to vaccinate a whole group of children for the sake of society,”

i also agree with Sweden when they say that the vaccines are safe.

glad this particular conspiracy theory has been put to bed now.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544727#Comment_118544727

Well no, they're obviously lying about that part cause their part of the conspiracy.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544674#Comment_118544674

The risk of myocarditis has been found to be roughly 16 times higher in Covid-19 patients than in the uninfected.

https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/comment/myocarditis-risks-covid-19-vaccines/

its a widely accepted fact now that the risk of serious myocarditis issues in unvaccinated greatly outweighs the risk of mild myocarditis issues in the vaccinated.

You are so late to this argument

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544674#Comment_118544674

Covid carries a higher risk of Myocarditis than the vaccines.

https://theconversation.com/myocarditis-covid-19-is-a-much-bigger-risk-to-the-heart-than-vaccination-174580

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544727#Comment_118544727

The jury is still out on that. I agree with this, Sweden decides against recommending COVID vaccines for kids aged 5-12 and their non-lockdown approach which was very far-sighted and pro-freedom.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544777#Comment_118544777

my brother who is living in Sweden would have a very different take on this than you. But I can't argue with your level of qualification and expertise as you have displayed so far

Black Noel

I havent taken one and dont think I'll be rushing out to get one at this stage. How many ppl would have resisted if they knew at the time what we know now?

‐-----------

New onset kidney biopsy-proven IgA vasculitis after #CovidVaccination (Moderna, 2nd dose):

https://t.co/k3CqdnuE6H

A 47-year-old male.

"Physicians should be aware of glomerulonephritis including IgA vasculitis in patients who" received "an mRNA based COVID-19 vaccine." https://t.co/PE4rUw5Quk

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544804#Comment_118544804

You are unvaccinated?

If yes, do you believe the vaccines are more dangerous for you than the disease?

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544655#Comment_118544655

I say I'm against the relentless obsession with vaccinating every man/woman/child regardless of risk/reward benefits.

And you say I'm in the strange position of contradicting national vaccination programs all around the world? Have you noticed that some of those programs all around the world contradict each other?!

Eg as posted above Sweden says there are not sufficient benefits to vaccinating primary school children to warrant recommending vaccination whereas many other countries say there are.

Which countries are right?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544777#Comment_118544777

Total fatalities per capita. Sweden way above their neighbours.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544804#Comment_118544804

Can I ask, is there a reason you're linking to some guy's twitters rather than the studies and articles themselves?

So far on this thread this is usually because the actual studies and articles don't match up with the claims being made by the guys on twitter.

What do we know now that would make people not want to get the vaccine?

As has been pointed out, your previous concern about myocarditis doesn't really make sense cause even if the risk from the vaccines is actually on the high end of that, it's still far far under the risks of myocarditis (and a whole bunch of other effects from the virus.)

If you are concerned about myocarditis, you are better off getting the vaccine as it will reduce the chances of it according to all the evidence.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544943#Comment_118544943

But the risk/reward is always in favour of the vaccines by a margin of at least 250:1, orders of magnitudes greater in other groups. There is 0 circumstances where you are better off encountering the virus without a vaccine vs. after having got a vaccine, even for children.

With that risk/reward ratio do you think it makes sense for people to get vaccinated?

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544674#Comment_118544674

this is factually incorrect - you should have a look at the video of Joe Rogan squirming when he made the same claim on his podcast and the guest asked to to find the actual facts and Rogen ended up pulling up data that totally contradicted his claim ....

jolivmmx

I saw a person with the biggest lips ever yesterday on the Luas. She obviously got the maximum dose of lip fillers. Same girl was spouting about the evils of inoculation while not wearing a mask. I had to stifle a smile. It was probably a beautician that injected her lips with some unknown substance from da internet. Blindness, skin death and horrible infection are some of the complications of a lip-filler. You have to laugh at the irony.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544943#Comment_118544943

But why are all of these countries, doctors and medical organisations pushing for vaccination in the first place.

Why do you believe they are obessed?

Do you believe this "obession" has lead them to claim false things?

Also, could you clarify if you agree with pat's claim that the death toll from covid is false?

You are again nitpicking people's claims, yet seem to have not at all mentioned this really blatant falsehood.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544943#Comment_118544943

"Relentless obsession" and the rest of that is vague and subjective. Which is why I asked if you were against national vaccination programs, like Ireland, UK, France, Germany, etc, etc - to which you replied yes.

Which begs the obvious question, what do you know that they don't? I don't think you have an answer to that.

Is there any country whose vaccination program you fully support? If yes, which one. If no, again, what do you know that the world doesn't..

I know it's fun to play the contrarian and hop about cherry-picking stuff, but eventually you are going to have be specific on your position.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118544995#Comment_118544995

I don't share your absolute certainty that "the risk/reward is always in favour of the vaccines by a margin of at least 250:1" -

As far as my 5 year old goes, the data shows that in the overwhelmingly vast majority of cases she is unlikely to suffer a severe outcome from Covid, there is a good chance she will even be asymptomatic, and a high probability that she has already had it, and was asymptomatic.

Of course nothing is guaranteed, and she may be one of desperately unlucky tiny percentage that will require hospitalisation, but it is a very, very small %.

Thus the vaccination is an unnecessary medical intervention. Why should I subject her to an unnecessary medical intervention?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545391#Comment_118545391

The risk/reward for your 5 year old is going to be greater than 1400:1, being female. There is a low chance of severe illness from COVID for her, but that becomes almost negligible after a vaccine (along with reduced chance of getting infected, missing school, being sick and feeling bad). Your risk/reward, being an older male, are orders of magnitude greater than that.

That's the maths you're trying to fight against and it doesn't really care if you don't agree, it is irrational, and being irrational is fine, trying to push misinformation to encourage irrationality in others isn't fine.

And I presume she got her childhood vaccines? And if so, the risk/reward for those medical interventions is lower than that of the COVID vaccines, but that's for you to try and process.

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545391#Comment_118545391

So now out of sheer desperation, the claiming being made by theorists is reduced to "it's just an unnecessary procedure."

You lot have given up your claims about dangers. You've given up your claims about it's ineffectiveness.

This is the last, best argument you have...

Maybe rather than deciding the best course of action for a child's health care, you should consult your doctor. Not conspiracy theory forums and grifters on youtube.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545435#Comment_118545435

And I presume she got her childhood vaccines? And if so, the risk/reward for those medical interventions is lower than that of the COVID vaccines, but that's for you to try and process.

I have already processed that. It was not difficult.

The reward for those vaccines is immunity. i.e there is now a very low chance that she will get mumps for example. For something as contagious as measles the reward of herd immunity is also a very important consideration in individual vaccination.

These rewards are not on offer with the current covid vaccines. With covid even if she is vaccinated there is a very high chance she will get covid.

What part of the above is irrational?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545501#Comment_118545501

The chances of her catching covid are reduced significantly.

The chances of her getting seriously ill are reduced significantly.

You've given up trying to claim there are any appreciable risks from taking the vaccines.

Refusing to take the option that results in less risk is not rational.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545501#Comment_118545501

Multiple vaccines require booster shots as time goes on, tetanus for example is re-administered any time the person has a higher chance of catching it, did you refuse the tetanus vaccination because of that?

And with all vaccines there is a small chance you can be infected, luckily they're not as prevalent as COVID has been so it's never really an issue, similar to the COVID vaccines, B/T-Cell immunity remains strong preventing serious disease.

I'm shocked you've got this far without knowing this.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545495#Comment_118545495

He has conceded all points at this stage to everyone.

snowstreams

Im personally glad we are no longer coercing the current covid vaccine on children in Ireland. Exclusion from sports etc was my worry.

The risk reward ratio wasn't good for my own children after discussing it with a few doctors. The new protein based vaccines may be worth it in future though if Covid continues to be a risk each winter.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545523#Comment_118545523

You are walking into it there..

"Prove it to me"

You provide the info

"I don't get it, explain it to me"

You explain it

"Nah I don't get your explanation, so it doesn't stand"

Cycle repeats.

Forget being a conspiracy theorist or straight up anti-vaxxer, perpetually living on the fence is where it's at.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545570#Comment_118545570

no children were ever coerced in ireland to get a vaccine

if you think so, you havent either read the HSE advice, or if you did, you didnt understand it

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545595#Comment_118545595

Do you not remember when all the unvaccinated were being arrested and put into camps like some conspiracy theorists were claiming?

King Mob

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545587#Comment_118545587

Or he'll nitpick something else that was said while ignoring all of the false claims and lies being told by conspiracy theorists on the thread. Like the idea that 5.6 million didn't die due to covid or that the vaccines aren't really vaccines.

hometruths

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118545540#Comment_118545540

And with all vaccines there is a small chance you can be infected, luckily they're not as prevalent as COVID has been so it's never really an issue

There's a reason that measles is not as prevalent. The vaccine provides immunity!

robinph

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118546010#Comment_118546010

And the annual flu vaccines only provide between 40-70% effectiveness, depending on the year and strain doing the rounds that year.

What is your point? We know that some vaccines are more effective than others.