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Thinking of buying a rifle

  • 22-04-2021 7:58pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ Gorteen


    I've got a problem with mink and foxes and despite our best efforts, we've lost a number of flocks of hens. The mink and foxes are somewhat brazen and don't seem to fear human presence. I'm thinking of getting a rifle but wonder if it's something that will be unused for long periods of time.

    I have a fair amount of experience with firearms from my younger days (7 years in Defence Forces) but never shot anything "smaller" than 7.62mm.

    Should I be going for .22 or .17? I hear that CZ are a good basic rifle. Should I bother with scope or will open sights be sufficient?

    Are there any target shooting clubs that I could join/attend for target shooting with my rifle or is that a more specialised sport?

    Any advice will be most welcome


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,712 ✭✭✭ Rows Grower


    Gorteen wrote: »
    I've got a problem with mink and foxes and despite our best efforts, we've lost a number of flocks of hens. The mink and foxes are somewhat brazen and don't seem to fear human presence. I'm thinking of getting a rifle but wonder if it's something that will be unused for long periods of time.

    I have a fair amount of experience with firearms from my younger days (7 years in Defence Forces) but never shot anything "smaller" than 7.62mm.

    Should I be going for .22 or .17? I hear that CZ are a good basic rifle. Should I bother with scope or will open sights be sufficient?

    Are there any target shooting clubs that I could join/attend for target shooting with my rifle or is that a more specialised sport?

    Any advice will be most welcome

    CZ are a great rifle, accurate and very, very reliable.

    You'll pick up a scope for it for small money and no matter how good your eyesight is you won't regret it.

    I'd go for a .22 personally but others will praise the merits of a .17.

    I know what it's like to lose poultry to both the mink and the fox and it's not nice, best of luck in getting the culprit.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 456 ✭✭ Asus1


    Gorteen wrote: »
    I've got a problem with mink and foxes and despite our best efforts, we've lost a number of flocks of hens. The mink and foxes are somewhat brazen and don't seem to fear human presence. I'm thinking of getting a rifle but wonder if it's something that will be unused for long periods of time.

    I have a fair amount of experience with firearms from my younger days (7 years in Defence Forces) but never shot anything "smaller" than 7.62mm.

    Should I be going for .22 or .17? I hear that CZ are a good basic rifle. Should I bother with scope or will open sights be sufficient?

    Are there any target shooting clubs that I could join/attend for target shooting with my rifle or is that a more specialised sport?

    Any advice will be most welcome

    I've never shot a mink I've only used traps with tuna or chicken.As for fox I've had the same problems and usually shoot 2/3 a year and all has been done so far with shotgun or 22lr under lamp or torch to about 70y.Im in the process of changing up to hmr to get a bit more distance and accuracy for fox,but 22 has done me so far.
    Maybe if you're not totally sure look for local gun club to sort them out for you.Most important is just when you think you got rid of all the predators they love to come back and kill all your new pullets just to p11s you off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭ pm.


    CZ are a great rifle, accurate and very, very reliable.

    You'll pick up a scope for it for small money and no matter how good your eyesight is you won't regret it.

    I'd go for a .22 personally but others will praise the merits of a .17.

    I know what it's like to lose poultry to both the mink and the fox and it's not nice, best of luck in getting the culprit.

    I fully agree with Rose growers, I went from a 22 to a 17 and while it was quick the slightest bit of a gust and it will fly off course after all its only 17grain or 21..

    They are also a very tight rifle and tend to copper foul after not too many shots. I went back to a 22 and have no regrets.

    Some lads here will love the 17 but after having both I would go with the 22 all day long


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Gorteen wrote: »
    I've got a problem with mink and foxes and despite our best efforts, we've lost a number of flocks of hens. The mink and foxes are somewhat brazen and don't seem to fear human presence. I'm thinking of getting a rifle but wonder if it's something that will be unused for long periods of time.

    I have a fair amount of experience with firearms from my younger days (7 years in Defence Forces) but never shot anything "smaller" than 7.62mm.

    Should I be going for .22 or .17? I hear that CZ are a good basic rifle. Should I bother with scope or will open sights be sufficient?

    Are there any target shooting clubs that I could join/attend for target shooting with my rifle or is that a more specialised sport?

    Any advice will be most welcome


    Firstly have a look at the sticky on various aspects of applying for a firearms license:

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/announcement.php?f=1021

    A few questions-

    What kind of land / property and the location do you have your chickens on?
    I ask as built up areas don't lend themselves for shooting for obvious reason but I'll highlight ranges, safety and noise as a few determining factors for firearm selection.

    The .22 LR moderated shooting low velocity hollow points is very quite, it is capable of humanely killing a fox at close range -75 yards. But its low velocity comes with a price, a lack of practical range and energy for taking animals the size of foxs and its tendency to ricochet.
    The 17HMR although smaller calibre will deliver good killing power well out beyond the practical range of the .22LR, although with any calibre careful shot placement is important and realistic ranges must be taken into consideration. The little pills deliver devastating energy on target and because they travel so fast are less likely to ricochet, disintegrating on contact with hard surfaces. But the swift little bullet suffers in cross winds and due to its velocity it is far from a quiet round.

    Clubs and Ranges.
    Most parishes will have a local gun club, these tend to lean towards feathered game shooting, but that may not be a deciding factor on membership. They tend not to have land were you can practice on as they would be orientated towards game management, predator control and seasonal hunting. This may be a benefit to you as the local boys may take care of you predator problem for you. Unfortunately it is illegal to target shoot / practice out side of authorised ranges.
    So really if you want to practice etc, etc you have to join a shooting range on an annual basis and that is an added expense and even if you do join a range you still need to be legally authorized to use your rifle for hunting.
    Your best bet is to secure your licence with suitable land permission as this makes things simpler in the long run.


    Rifles
    The market is flooded with .22LRs that you can pick up secound hand for the guts of €200 or less and that includes scopes or you can spend a few grand on a bare rifle. There is a middle road were you can buy a brand new package deal -rifle, scope and moderator.
    Like wise there are plenty of HMRs around of various grades and standards. You can pick up no frills work horses for small money that will be perfect for the type of vermin control you want to do.

    Optics
    As an ex'er and talking about the 7.62 I can only assume your spent your time on the FN. Altough perfect on figure 4 targets and snap shooting the 'bobbing man' the old iron sights don't lend themselves to effective vermin control. A low end scope from a reputable manufacturer in 3-9 x 42 will have you hitting rats out to 60/70 yards.

    Moderators
    Once authorised to have one they are invaluable addition to rifles regardless of calibre or velocity. They make quiet ammo even quieter and it is said animals can be disoriented as to the direction of the shot even when using high velocity ammo.

    Additional Kit-
    Lamping Kit, either hand held or gun mounted
    Bipod or shooting sticks.

    Lastly, someone here may have other experiences but I have rarely been in a situation where I had rifle in hand and a mink in front of me, seen plenty of them over the years but never hunted them with a rifle. They tend to be trapped and as above theres probably local lads who would help you out there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 228 ✭✭ kunekunesika


    22 or 17 have worked really well for me with similar.
    There will always be a fox thats too far away.
    Get yourself a scope, you'll need it to shot that rat hiding behind a dock leave etc. Happy hunting.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,517 ✭✭✭ Traumadoc


    pm. wrote: »
    I fully agree with Rose growers, I went from a 22 to a 17 and while it was quick the slightest bit of a gust and it will fly off course after all its only 17grain or 21..

    They are also a very tight rifle and tend to copper foul after not too many shots. I went back to a 22 and have no regrets.

    Some lads here will love the 17 but after having both I would go with the 22 all day long

    Agree, when the .17 hmr worked it was excellent , but it needed a lot of cleaning- and wind affected it badly .
    I bought a .22 CZ 452 and would not go back to .17.
    Also would recommend primos tripod.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    The 17 drifts but the 22LR drifts more. See below, the .22LR drifts at 100 the same as the 17 does at 125. I had one, loved it. IMHO it has the ability to reach out further with authority than the .22LR. Only reason I sold it was getting a .223.

    bullet-drift-10mph-wind.png


    Trajectory-chart.jpg

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,517 ✭✭✭ Traumadoc


    This is true, but personal experience from 2 X .17hmr rifles - Remington 597 and Anschutz and 3 X .22 rifles - Ruger 77/22 , Ruger 10/22 and CZ452 would lead me to strongly recommend the 22, but its horses for courses , some would prefer the longer reach and total destructive power of the HMR.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Traumadoc wrote: »
    This is true, but personal experience from 2 X .17hmr rifles - Remington 597 and Anschutz and 3 X .22 rifles - Ruger 77/22 , Ruger 10/22 and CZ452 would lead me to strongly recommend the 22, but its horses for courses , some would prefer the longer reach and total destructive power of the HMR.

    If all the claims about the hmr were true then in nearly 20 years since its introduction there wouldnt be a .22lr or .22wmr to be seen. Manufacturers would have got out of making them long ago and the ammo all used up with none to find. The die-hards wouldn't have been in enough numbers to keep a back street metal working shop in business.

    Strangely the opposite is true with new models of .22lr and .22wmr being produced every year.

    You may find there may be something in that. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    If all the claims about the hmr were true then in nearly 20 years since its introduction there wouldnt be a .22lr or .22wmr to be seen. Manufacturers would have got out of making them long ago and the ammo all used up with none to find. The die-hards wouldn't have been in enough numbers to keep a back street metal working shop in business.

    Strangely the opposite is true with new models of .22lr and .22wmr being produced every year.

    You may find there may be something in that. ;)

    I'll take yer point on the WMR but we'll be using laser guns and the .22LR will still be around.

    First they came for the socialists...



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Feisar wrote: »
    I'll take yer point on the WMR but we'll be using laser guns and the .22LR will still be around.

    Oh come on...... we all know that light is susceptible to wind and drops faster after 100 yards.:rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    The argument has gone on for many years. It may have started in the air rifle calibers where you had .22, then .177 and later the .20 and the .25.

    Each one was always better than the others. But the truth is they all 'are' in certain fields and fall down in others. Perhaps there is no 'perfect' caliber and its not worth the oxygen to sort out.

    One major point is the knock down of the larger and heavier bullets. This is undeniable and therefore the larger of the calibers always shines through if you are hunting. Target shooting is a completely different sport with different requirements. Can you mix the two?

    Ranges, hunting, target, windy days, etc they all come into it. It all depends on what you want your gun for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,182 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    I hate being the dick that suggests something totally different however...

    If a .22 Hornet can be got for circa the same money as a 22/17, then why not. A legit 200 yard/fox capable rifle and if it's only for vermin then ammo wouldn't be an issue.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Feisar wrote: »
    I hate being the dick that suggests something totally different however...

    If a .22 Hornet can be got for circa the same money as a 22/17, then why not. A legit 200 yard/fox capable rifle and if it's only for vermin then ammo wouldn't be an issue.

    Used a hornet for years and loved it, the rifles can be bought for smallish money as everyone wants the .223.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 259 ✭✭ Bog Trotter99


    Feisar wrote: »
    I hate being the dick that suggests something totally different however...

    If a .22 Hornet can be got for circa the same money as a 22/17, then why not. A legit 200 yard/fox capable rifle and if it's only for vermin then ammo wouldn't be an issue.
    Well Richard ;) you probably have a point until someone wants to shoot a fox at 300 or 400 yards. Then it starts all over again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 335 ✭✭ yubabill


    If you're only using the gun occasionally, then ammo prices may not be a problem, but a great compromise between .22LR and .17HMR is the venerable .22WMR (22 magnum). Kind of in the middle between the two, ammo is affordable and the .17HMR rage has made the 22WMR a cheaper rifle to buy.

    Personally, I'd probably go for a shotgun because mink can be hard to hit if you have any kind of length in the grass and they don't like to stay too still. 12 gauge BB shot is good fox medicine, anything from clay pigeon cartridges up will do for mink.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    Gorteen wrote: »
    The mink and foxes are somewhat brazen and don't seem to fear human presence.

    Suggest you can get within 70-100m readily enough.
    Gorteen wrote: »
    I'm thinking of getting a rifle but wonder if it's something that will be unused for long periods of time.

    It probably will be but it's €80 per 3 years once you own it so not something I'd worry about personally
    Gorteen wrote: »
    I have a fair amount of experience with firearms from my younger days (7 years in Defence Forces) but never shot anything "smaller" than 7.62mm.

    Same principles apply and pretty much anything you're going to buy is going to have a better trigger than you're used to so. :D
    Gorteen wrote: »
    Should I be going for .22 or .17?

    For what you've outlined, a good quality 17hmr would be my choice of those two inside of 100m - more than enough for mink, and effective on fox. 22LR will be cheaper and quieter, but doesn't have the same 'persuasion' as the hmr with ballistic tips.
    Gorteen wrote: »
    I hear that CZ are a good basic rifle.
    I'd give them more credit than that - in the smaller calibers they're the best bang per buck rifle brand out there without a shadow of a doubt. That being said I've shot stock CZ beside Anschutz on the same ammo and whilst the rifles themselves, braced and mounted, would probably be too close to call - the Anschutz is a lot easier to shoot once you get out a bit. This isn't to say that you can't make the CZ just as easy to shoot, merely that out of the box that wasn't my experience.

    So the question becomes is it good enough for you, or is the extra worth it.
    Gorteen wrote: »
    Should I bother with scope or will open sights be sufficient?

    Fox is basically a 6" target marginally above the grass; Mink is more like a 3" target buried in the grass. Neither is a regular target shape and neither are tall enough or sufficiently high contrast to produce a sharp outline in anything but the brightest of conditions. Couple that with the fact that what shape you can make out will be augmented by the terrain they're on, and the fact that you're likely at least 50m away, and I would be using a scope - and a reasonably decent one at that.
    Gorteen wrote: »
    Are there any target shooting clubs that I could join/attend for target shooting with my rifle or is that a more specialised sport?

    Varies depending on location but there's probably something within an hour of you alright; and whilst it can be more specialised, it doesn't have to be. There are disciplines for every audience, and then there's just spending time on the range for the pure enjoyment of that in itself - so certainly worth doing, yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 881 ✭✭✭ Gorteen


    extremetaz wrote: »
    Fox is basically a 6" target marginally above the grass; Mink is more like a 3" target buried in the grass. Neither is a regular target shape and neither are tall enough or sufficiently high contrast to produce a sharp outline in anything but the brightest of conditions. Couple that with the fact that what shape you can make out will be augmented by the terrain they're on, and the fact that you're likely at least 50m away, and I would be using a scope - and a reasonably decent one at that

    I beg to differ! Today, my daughter took a photo of a fox behind our house in broad daylight, and she was within 20 metres of him. Last week, my wife found a mink sitting on top of our wheelie bin!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭ extremetaz


    Gorteen wrote: »
    I beg to differ! Today, my daughter took a photo of a fox behind our house in broad daylight, and she was within 20 metres of him.

    :D:D In that case, and as advised farther up the thread - get a shotgun!

    Gorteen wrote: »
    Last week, my wife found a mink sitting on top of our wheelie bin!!!

    ...and a few traps. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6 ✭✭✭ handcontrol2


    Hello I am looking to buy an air rifle .22 with scope. Please contact me


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,712 ✭✭✭ Rows Grower


    Hello I am looking to buy an air rifle .22 with scope. Please contact me

    You'll have a better chance putting this in the for sale or wanted section.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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