FF/FG/Green Government - Part 3

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Of course they are, there are experts every day calling for Zero Covid, other experts saying we don't need any lockdown at all.

You want a view on Covid, you will find an expert to back you up.

Only ditch hurlers hide behind experts.

Alright Mr Pedantic...are they ignoring any NPHET advice?

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Alright Mr Pedantic...are they ignoring any NPHET advice?

Again, NPHET doesn't speak with one voice consistently, there are differing views within NPHET, sometimes their advice is an unworkable compromise of those differing views. NPHET are not unchallengable deities.

McMurphy

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Jaysis when Stephen has ye down to grumbling about stuff like this, he must be flying

Meanwhile, nobody has anything to say about Norma. She schooled yis all good.

You're confusing grumbling with piss taking.

skimpydoo

Marine Layer wrote: »

My brother rang his gp this morning,cohort 7 and is being done next wenesday
If you are waiting,you need to be pushy because mistakes happen

My vaccination is not taking place at my GP's. It's been done at a private hospital where I have been getting treatment. The email I was sent said to only send them my PPS number as they are too busy to answer any queries.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Again, NPHET doesn't speak with one voice consistently, there are differing views within NPHET, sometimes their advice is an unworkable compromise of those differing views. NPHET are not unchallengable deities.

Funny I could be sure people where defending Leo's government by saying he was following NPHET's expert advice as he was supposed to. Must go and check who was saying that.

So, for the record are you saying they are ignoring some of NPHET's advice here?

skimpydoo

blanch152 wrote: »

Did you send it to the correct email address?

I replied to the email I was sent, so I don't know how it would have gone to the wrong email address.

skimpydoo

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Who here disagrees with the move to relax restrictions? Now is the time to register your disapproval.
It will be better than looking wise in hindsight if/when the 4th wave hits in a month's time. Speak up now (not like in December)

I am counting down to our fourth wave. We had less cases when we opened up last December and look what happened. Last December they ignored NPHET'S advice and last May NPHET recommended MHQ which finally took place nearly a year later and when it was put in place it was done half heartedly. It's as if they want it to fail.

skimpydoo

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Jaysis when Stephen has ye down to grumbling about stuff like this, he must be flying

Meanwhile, nobody has anything to say about Norma. She schooled yis all good.

What has Norma done?

FrancieBrady

Listening to Fionnan Sheehan say that they have ignored some NPHET advice, so on record here, I'll have to reserve judgement.
I defer to the experts, if they say future problems were caused because of the advice they ignored here then the buck once again stops with those who ignored that advice.

Too many lives at stake.

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Listening to Fionnan Sheehan say that they have ignored some NPHET advice, so on record here, I'll have to reserve judgement.
I defer to the experts, if they say future problems were caused because of the advice they ignored here then the buck once again stops with those who ignored that advice.

Too many lives at stake.

Back up on the ditch with ya Francie;)

Finty Lemon

skimpydoo wrote: »

What has Norma done?

Delivered reopening of the schools and put manners on the teachers unions.

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Back up on the ditch with ya Francie;)

You asked, I answered. Sorry it wasn't what you were looking for.

mattser

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Back up on the ditch with ya Francie;)

Mary Lou on news there was very fair and balanced. Wasn't taking a cowardly line of govt ignoring experts.
On a day when everyone I've spoken to or seen interviewed is brighter and more hopeful, the perma whingers must stir the poo.
These people are pathetic. Not sure why anyone would engage with them.

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You asked, I answered. Sorry it wasn't what you were looking for.

Your answer is you don't know. For the record.

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Your answer is you don't know. For the record.

I was very specific actually. If one of the ignored pieces of expert advice is attributed to be the cause of a surge then the buck for that stops with those who ignored that bit of expert advice.

Government remains accountable, even if you guys want to continue giving free passes.

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was very specific actually. If one of the ignored pieces of expert advice is attributed to be the cause of a surge then the buck for that stops with those who ignored that bit of expert advice.

Government remains accountable, even if you guys want to continue giving free passes.

Can you pinpoint the omissions that led to the increase in cases during December?
Or would Christmas, new variants, people returning home from high incidence areas abroad, have any bearing?
Please share your calculations on how you apportioned the effects. Regards etc

As a lecturer one said to us, a whale only gets harpooned when it comes up to blow.

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Can you pinpoint the omissions that led to the increase in cases during December?
Or would Christmas, new variants, people returning home from high incidence areas abroad, have any bearing?
Please share your calculations on how you apportioned the effects. Regards etc

Scroll back the thread, you'll find it discussed there.

mattser

Deleted User wrote: »

As a lecturer one said to us, a whale only gets harpooned when it comes up to blow.

Perfectly put. Proof that it doesn't take dozens of pointless posts a day, ( even if you had the time ), to deliver a knockout punch.

Cluedo Monopoly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was very specific actually. If one of the ignored pieces of expert advice is attributed to be the cause of a surge then the buck for that stops with those who ignored that bit of expert advice.

Government remains accountable, even if you guys want to continue giving free passes.

It was a long and expensive mistake. But meaningful...

FrancieBrady

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

It was a long and expensive mistake. But meaningful...

A lot of people died because of that mistake, some people I know. These guys want to turn it into a cheap political jibe if you criticise it. Appalling.

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Scroll back the thread, you'll find it discussed there.

France, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands Finland, Norway, Sweden, Germany, UK all spiked in Dec Jan. All coincidental with the largest Christian festival of the year. Irelands pattern was similar, inward migration of citizens, and more transmissible variants, playing a key role.

You say that the Jan spike was 100% down to a deviation between NPHET position and that of the government. That appears somewhat implausible given the comparable pattern in other jurisdictions. It could be concluded that you have tried to politicise the issue.

Or perhaps you have analysed and apportioned the relative effects. If so, and to save us all trawling back through the thread, please show your work and enlighten us once again.

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

It was a long and expensive mistake. But meaningful...

Meaningfull for Mary Lou anyway
She was all in favour of hospitality being open

https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/videos/236387647821585/

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

France, Portugal, Spain, Netherlands Finland, Norway, Sweden, Germany, UK all spiked in Dec Jan. All coincidental with the largest Christian festival of the year. Irelands pattern was similar, inward migration of citizens, and more transmissible variants, playing a key role.

You say that the Jan spike was 100% down to a deviation between NPHET position and that of the government. That appears somewhat implausible given the comparable pattern in other jurisdictions. It could be concluded that you have tried to politicise the issue.

Or perhaps you have analysed and apportioned the relative effects. If so, and to save us all trawling back through the thread, please show your work and enlighten us once again.

Not interested in re-hashing that Finty. Especially with someone who is already lying and misrepresenting what was said/claimed. At no time did I use the figure 100%.

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was very specific actually. If one of the ignored pieces of expert advice is attributed to be the cause of a surge then the buck for that stops with those who ignored that bit of expert advice.

Government remains accountable, even if you guys want to continue giving free passes.

Which bit though? And to what extent?
And how would that be squared with the patterns in the rest of western Europe? Or are you just speculating again?

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not interested in re-hashing that Finty. Especially with someone who is already lying and misrepresenting what was said/claimed. At no time did I use the figure 100%.

Not 100% then? That's a start. Care to put a figure on it?

mattser

Marine Layer wrote: »

Meaningfull for Mary Lou anyway
She was all in favour of hospitality being open

https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/videos/236387647821585/

That wont stop the hypocrites conjuring some sort of get out clause for themselves. Mary Lou was supportive of todays decisions also in the main.

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not interested in re-hashing that Finty. Especially with someone who is already lying and misrepresenting what was said/claimed. At no time did I use the figure 100%.

You may need to account for multicollinearity in your approximations of blame Francie. But at least we have established that that you don't 100% blame the government.
You have grown a bit it seems.

Cluedo Monopoly

Marine Layer wrote: »

Meaningfull for Mary Lou anyway
She was all in favour of hospitality being open

https://www.facebook.com/sinnfein/videos/236387647821585/

Mary Lou is not in government and I do not support SF.

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

You may need to account for multicollinearity in your approximations of blame Francie. But at least we have established that that you don't 100% blame the government.
You have grown a bit it seems.

I never did Finty.

Mis-representation and lies again. Glad I didn't waste time debating with you. good luck now.

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Mary Lou is not in government and I do not support SF.

Do you not think its disengenous to diss a government decision taken with opposition support and with no foreknowledge of the hindenberg rocket ship effect of the British variant?

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never did Finty.

Mis-representation and lies again. Glad I didn't waste time debating with you. good luck now.

Back up on the ditch again. Enjoy

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Back up on the ditch again. Enjoy

Yep, away from those who need to mis-represent and lie about what was said to defend.
Had enough of them, ta very much.

Cluedo Monopoly

Marine Layer wrote: »

Do you not think its disengenous to diss a government decision taken with opposition support and with no foreknowledge of the hindenberg rocket ship effect of the British variant?

Nope. This is a government thread. The government took the decision against the advice of NPHET. I dont care what SF thought. The decision has led to 4 months of Level 5. Own it FFGG.

Cluedo Monopoly

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Nope. This is a government thread. The government took the decision against the advice of NPHET. I dont care what SF thought. The decision has led to 4 months of Level 5. Own it FFGG.

Probably would have happened anyway and worse
At least some of the socialising up to xmas was in a controlled environment
The public would not have accepted a pre xmas lock down
You have the benefit of hindsight which is always unreasonable

Finty Lemon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never did Finty.

Mis-representation and lies again. Glad I didn't waste time debating with you. good luck now.

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

Nope. This is a government thread. The government took the decision against the advice of NPHET. I dont care what SF thought. The decision has led to 4 months of Level 5. Own it FFGG.

Pandemic spike in every European country at Christmas. Own that FF and FG. Jaysis.

Finty Lemon

Why was there such a high rate in NI where FG and FF were not in power? Hmmm

Finty Lemon

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Why was there such a high rate in NI where FG and FF were not in power? Hmmm

Westminster I suppose will be trotted out as the excuse. Not new variants of a a very new novel coronavirus.

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

Pandemic spike in every European country at Christmas. Own that FF and FG. Jaysis.

On the 1st December we had a 7 day average of 237.

On 8th January we had a 7 day average of 6363 (8227 new cases that day)

A 26 fold increase.

Are you saying other EU countries surged worse than that in relative terms? Did they also have a health system as badly prepared after decades of FFG mismanagement?

Martin himself admitted opening pubs and restuarants for Christmas was a major mistake.

FrancieBrady

Marine Layer wrote: »

Probably would have happened anyway and worse
At least some of the socialising up to xmas was in a controlled environment
The public would not have accepted a pre xmas lock down
You have the benefit of hindsight which is always unreasonable

Isn't that just typical.

Blame the public. The government were warned that what they were doing was mistaken. Hindsight is not an excuse either.

The public have done all that was asked of them. Didn't the last person making these filthy attacks on the public get shown a poll showing that the public thought the lockdown wasn't strong enough at one point.

All we can do is hope the government have gotten it right this time.

Finty Lemon

Deleted User wrote: »

Westminster I suppose will be trotted out as the excuse. Not new variants of a a very new novel coronavirus.

There was a massive spike in NI at Christmas. Monaghan and Donegal and Louth were worst hit in ROI post-Christmas. Maybe cross border contamination had more to do with the ROI issue than a technicality in implementation of measures? That would seem logical, but like many opinions on here, remains devoid of any factual proof.

FrancieBrady

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

On the 1st December we had a 7 day average of 237.

On 8th January we had a 7 day average of 6363 (8227 new cases that day)

A 26 fold increase.

Are you saying other EU countries surged worse than that in relative terms? Did they also have a health system as badly prepared after decades of FFG mismanagement?

Martin himself admitted opening pubs and restuarants for Christmas was a major mistake.

He did, and then blamed the media for overstating the relevance of the expert advice given to him that he ignored. Varadkar also admitted that they opened up too quick and too much.

Un-fecking- believable.

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

On the 1st December we had a 7 day average of 237.

On 8th January we had a 7 day average of 6363 (8227 new cases that day)

A 26 fold increase.

Are you saying other EU countries surged worse than that in relative terms? Did they also have a health system as badly prepared after decades of FFG mismanagement?

Martin himself admitted opening pubs and restuarants for Christmas was a major mistake.

24x in Spain
15x in Finland
20x in Czechia
22x in Portugal
32x in France
Irelands health system as measured by morbidity and mortality, coped very well. In relative terms.

Cluedo Monopoly

Finty Lemon wrote: »

24x in Spain
15x in Finland
20x in Czechia
22x in Portugal
32x in France
Irelands health system as measured by morbidity and mortality, coped very well. In relative terms.

I will take your first two. Spain & Finland

Spain
1st Dec - 7 Day Average = 9115
11th Jan - 7 Day Average = 23087
A 2.5 fold increase.

Finland
1st Dec - 7 Day Average = 461
8th Jan - 7 Day Average = 256
A decrease

I assume you made up the rest too

Finty Lemon

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I will take your first two. Spain & Finland

Spain
1st Dec - 7 Day Average = 9115
11th Jan - 7 Day Average = 23087
A 2.5 fold increase.

Finland
1st Dec - 7 Day Average = 461
8th Jan - 7 Day Average = 256
A decrease

I assume you made up the rest too

Whats with the arbitrary choice of dates?

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Isn't that just typical.

Blame the public. The government were warned that what they were doing was mistaken. Hindsight is not an excuse either.

The public have done all that was asked of them. Didn't the last person making these filthy attacks on the public get shown a poll showing that the public thought the lockdown wasn't strong enough at one point.

All we can do is hope the government have gotten it right this time.

“ The public have done all that was asked of them.”. Were the public asked to ignore common sense and mix with all and sundry? Or did the Public do the sensible thing and mix with as few as possible, for the greater good. Our old mate ‘Personal Responsibility’ comes in to play. How many thought it vital to visit granny or grandpa, even though they were happy to stay in isolation? Shur, Twas there right to see nana and grandpa, no matter nana and grandpa’s wishes.

Finty Lemon

Finland in early March 832. Running higher not lower
Spain 10th Feb 103,000

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Isn't that just typical.

Blame the public. The government were warned that what they were doing was mistaken. Hindsight is not an excuse either.

The public have done all that was asked of them. Didn't the last person making these filthy attacks on the public get shown a poll showing that the public thought the lockdown wasn't strong enough at one point.

All we can do is hope the government have gotten it right this time.

Lol Francie
Tisn't China we live in
People are breaking rules right left and centre,your virtue signalling aside
We can't send them all off to be with the Uighars
Just like you expect us to believe 44,000 pro SF posts cannot be from a member or employee,credit us with some inteligence as to what went on or is going on in the country minus the virtue signalling
If we remained locked down in December we would still be now with even less compliance
Human nature unless you're in China and get imprisoned

Shebean

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

On the 1st December we had a 7 day average of 237.

On 8th January we had a 7 day average of 6363 (8227 new cases that day)

A 26 fold increase.

Are you saying other EU countries surged worse than that in relative terms? Did they also have a health system as badly prepared after decades of FFG mismanagement?

Martin himself admitted opening pubs and restuarants for Christmas was a major mistake.

I read that. They certainly accepted they made poor decisions. I think they were looking to be popular. I see 'we all partied' is still the popular excuse.
Going pretty good now. I hope things continue to pick up.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

“ The public have done all that was asked of them.”. Were the public asked to ignore common sense and mix with all and sundry? Or did the Public do the sensible thing and mix with as few as possible, for the greater good. Our old mate ‘Personal Responsibility’ comes in to play. How many thought it vital to visit granny or grandpa, even though they were happy to stay in isolation? Shur, Twas there right to see nana and grandpa, no matter nana and grandpa’s wishes.

Your government undermined you Maryanne. Both Martin and Varadkar admitted the mistake. Martin blamed the media for blaming the government, he's a sleeveen, to be expected.

You're blaming the people for a mistake the government admitted. Lovely.