calf scour

greek88

Hi all, i know there are numerous threads on this already. Have a week old calf scouring since day 1. wasnt that bad and was sucking so gave him 2-3 turbo hydrate. then started to get worse so gave him 3 powdered recofast and has had 4 synulox. Long story short ended up on an iv yesterday morning is lot better today up and around but is still passing pure water and the smell off it.
I thaught it strange he was scouring after 1 day old?? e-coli?? even though i had the place disinfected.

he is sucking the cow so he is hydrated but want to keep pushing him on so he doesnt go back to yeserday morning.

Any suggestions??

tanko

Bring a sample of it to your vet and get it tested to find out what is is.

Matteyd

Seems to be a lot of rota virus around this year, by the time the first calves here were showing signs it was too late to vaccinate the cows (< 3 weeks til calving) so instead oral dose of locatim when they're born. Won't skip on the vaccinating next year

Only way to know for sure is stool sample

greek88

I was thinking of sending a sample all right if i dint see an improvement by this evening.
thanks for the reply guy.

dohc turbo2

Them tablets are no good if they have the scour can’t beat the kaolin powder and half a packet it’s yellow for blood scour , can’t think of the name of it ,

tanko

dohc turbo2 wrote: »

Them tablets are no good if they have the scour can’t beat the kaolin powder and half a packet it’s yellow for blood scour , can’t think of the name of it ,

Sulpha powder for the blood scour, they can't get that until 20 days old tho.
This case might be ecoli.

148multi

tanko wrote: »

Sulpha powder for the blood scour, they can't get that until 20 days old tho.
This case might be ecoli.

I'd agree with tanko, if it is ecoli the gut shuts down, might he also have a watery mouth and a belly full of liquid. In this situation any thing given oral won't be absorbed.

Say my name

greek88 wrote: »

Hi all, i know there are numerous threads on this already. Have a week old calf scouring since day 1. wasnt that bad and was sucking so gave him 2-3 turbo hydrate. then started to get worse so gave him 3 powdered recofast and has had 4 synulox. Long story short ended up on an iv yesterday morning is lot better today up and around but is still passing pure water and the smell off it.
I thaught it strange he was scouring after 1 day old?? e-coli?? even though i had the place disinfected.

he is sucking the cow so he is hydrated but want to keep pushing him on so he doesnt go back to yeserday morning.

Any suggestions??

Had/has the cow mastitis?

greysides

See if you can get some fresh colostrum and get a bit (maybe half a cup) into him twice a day. Don't overdo the amount.
Also, don't assume that because he's sucking, he's hydrated. Give at least two litres a day of fluids.

older by the day

Keep on the fluids. My own got rotavirus a few years back. Bagging 4 times a day, a litre each time. Then I left them out and walked them around the yard. To knock the swollen belly down .

greek88

Hes a lot perkier this morning. Iv been giving him 2l of fluids last few days. hes sucking away this morninig now but last night still had watery scour. literally was like the milk was coming back out of him. Im thinking e-coli but would have assumed the 4 synulox tablets i gave him would have knocked that.

patsy_mccabe

general info on scours;

http://animalhealthireland.ie/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/AHI-Bulletin-February-FINAL.pdf

greek88

Thanks lad, going by this he was scouring after 1 day old looks like e-coli. Vet said also as he was off a heifer (1st calver) recons her colostrum wasnt good enough she being a heifer and all.

Say my name

greek88 wrote: »

Thanks lad, going by this he was scouring after 1 day old looks like e-coli. Vet said also as he was off a heifer (1st calver) recons her colostrum wasnt good enough she being a heifer and all.

Did the vet pull her tits?

stanflt

Been there worn ever tee shirt
Gabbrovet 140 is a lifesaver if you can get your hands on it- we were plagued with 2-3 day old scouts- started using this product in mid feb and have only had 1 scour in about 100 calves- feed it with the first feed for 7 days- thanks to my vet we are now enjoying calving again

greek88

neighbour of mine swears by Poitin. shot of it will kill the bacteria (if bacterial infection). im more sceptical of that though, last thing i want to do is sicken the calf. since hs back drinking and moving around.

Gawddawggonnit

stanflt wrote: »

Been there worn ever tee shirt
Gabbrovet 140 is a lifesaver if you can get your hands on it- we were plagued with 2-3 day old scouts- started using this product in mid feb and have only had 1 scour in about 100 calves- feed it with the first feed for 7 days- thanks to my vet we are now enjoying calving again

Yep.
I did mention that product a few months back...

Say my name

Recofast.
Synulox.
Turbo hydrate.
Locatim.
Kaolin.
Sulpha powder.
Gabbrovet 140.
And now Poitin.

There was also one suggestion of Colostrum from the none farmer and vet among us.

I asked had the heifer mastitis. Op never replied. Greysides suggestion of Colostrum was after my first enquiry. So he was completely on the same wavelength as me.
Now we go further along and there's a suggestion of poitin from the Op from a neighbour.

Janey mac is this where we're heading as livestock keepers?
If your calf has a scour as a day old then to me it's not environmental it's what that calf is consuming.
The first port of call is always to check the udder. This is a calf sucking a heifer. Heifers can have mastitis. Mastitis poison milk that can poison the calf. And if mastitis was there beforehand which it would be if there at calving. Then the calf is going to be born a sick calf anyways.
If it's still there at calving and the quarters haven't soaked up then it's poison in and poison out.

If you give all these treatments it continues along with that animal for the rest of it's life. The next generation are born then are more dependent on treatments and worse for the subsequent generations and so on and so on.

First port of call is always nutrients, cleanliness, colostrum, limiting treatments, not breeding from stock that required lots of treatment to break the cycle.

Anyway. Chest cleared.

Hope the calf improves.

But ffs..

greek88

cows udder is fine. all quarters are good milk looks perfect.

"First port of call is always nutrients, cleanliness, colostrum, limiting treatments, not breeding from stock that required lots of treatment to break the cycle"
Calf got colostrum within 90 minutes of calving. the place was clean and had been disinfected.
yes these were bought in stock as incalf heifers a few weeks back and i was giving the precalver licks.

Vet actually suggested Kaolin. says he has got everything else. just needs to dry him up.

Say my name

Buy yourself a refractometer too.

Don't test the milk myself but those that do report good success with using it to test milk.

The refractometer can be used on forage then too. Testing grass here and some atm is coming back at six. Heifers are on that and you'd know it.
Other grass is coming back at 2 atm..

It all leads to health and success.

148multi

Say my name wrote: »

Buy yourself a refractometer too.

Don't test the milk myself but those that do report good success with using it to test milk.

The refractometer can be used on forage then too. Testing grass here and some atm is coming back at six. Heifers are on that and you'd know it.
Other grass is coming back at 2 atm..

It all leads to health and success.

Not hijacking the thread, but what do you mean by the grass is coming back as 6-2 and what this means for your animals

Say my name

148multi wrote: »

Not hijacking the thread, but what do you mean by the grass is coming back as 6-2 and what this means for your animals

I'm probably hijacking by replying!

You've heard tell of farmers saying stock are thriving on grass what little is there during droughts. If you test that grass it'll come back high in brix.
High brix grass has higher nutrition, it doesn't take as much to feed that animal.
If you fatten cattle for the factory. That high brix grass will give the same nutrition as concentrates.
So if you conserve that as silage or hay it should go through to the winter too. Less concentrates needed. More nutrients. Better health.
Nitrogen fertilizer and probably the p and k too and sprays ( fungicides, herbicides) on plant or soil reduce the ability of brix to get above 2.
The grass will look good. But test it and it comes back as 2 or 1. This leaves the stock open to every ailment known.
That's the theory.
The theory too is that natural fertilizers without the bad stuff and the whole range of macro and micro nutrients brings up brix and so on.

You've heard Wrangler comment on here about organic stock grading and looking well..

Anyway that's the whole jizz.

whelan2

greek88 wrote: »

Hi all, i know there are numerous threads on this already. Have a week old calf scouring since day 1. wasnt that bad and was sucking so gave him 2-3 turbo hydrate. then started to get worse so gave him 3 powdered recofast and has had 4 synulox. Long story short ended up on an iv yesterday morning is lot better today up and around but is still passing pure water and the smell off it.
I thaught it strange he was scouring after 1 day old?? e-coli?? even though i had the place disinfected.

he is sucking the cow so he is hydrated but want to keep pushing him on so he doesnt go back to yeserday morning.

Any suggestions??

Very rare to be scouring from day 1. Had one like that last year and it was an intestinal problem. Pure water no matter what treatment. I mollycoddled him along and he went in the middle of a group for export

greysides

Mod:

With my mod hat on.....

A thread like this, asking for help with a sick animal, from a mod point of view, is always going to be walking a tight rope.
For posters who are new to the forum, I'll mention we have a charter, available in the one of the stickies on the main page. Along with the general forum rules, it's what we mod by. It lays down the rules/guidelines for topics specific to this forum, or on subjects where we've had problems before.

There is a Veterinary section there which is worth reading if you've not done so before, or re-reading if it's a while since you last did so.

It was drawn up a few years ago to try to bring a bit of sense to responses to posts dealing with animal health. The objective was to facilitate discussion with a bit of direction, while reining in some of the wilder thoughts and suggestions.

Those with the responsibility at the time with legal, ethical and moral objectives in mind thought that the result was a reasonably balanced approach. Note, I didn't say 'perfect'.

I find myself skirting close to the limits of what's allowed at times so we, the mods, are generally circumspect in how we handle health and welfare threads.

BUT, there are some clear lines in the sand.

Offering poitin as a solution, even if indirectly, crosses one of those lines.

Now, as I said, I find the guidelines very rigid myself and while mods will use common sense in applying the rules, it may be a very good time to reacquaint yourself with them. No one wants to be infracting somebody whose intentions were good.

greysides

Say my name wrote: »

Anyway that's the whole jizz.

"Jizz". Not really a good word to spurt out...


:eek:

trixi2011

Say my name wrote: »

I'm probably hijacking by replying!

You've heard tell of farmers saying stock are thriving on grass what little is there during droughts. If you test that grass it'll come back high in brix.
High brix grass has higher nutrition, it doesn't take as much to feed that animal.
If you fatten cattle for the factory. That high brix grass will give the same nutrition as concentrates.
So if you conserve that as silage or hay it should go through to the winter too. Less concentrates needed. More nutrients. Better health.
Nitrogen fertilizer and probably the p and k too and sprays ( fungicides, herbicides) on plant or soil reduce the ability of brix to get above 2.
The grass will look good. But test it and it comes back as 2 or 1. This leaves the stock open to every ailment known.
That's the theory.
The theory too is that natural fertilizers without the bad stuff and the whole range of macro and micro nutrients brings up brix and so on.

You've heard Wrangler comment on here about organic stock grading and looking well..

Anyway that's the whole jizz.

Is the refratomitor not just testing for sugar in the grass ?

Say my name

trixi2011 wrote: »

Is the refratomitor not just testing for sugar in the grass ?

There's a few on here testing colostrum with one I think?

trixi2011

Say my name wrote: »

There's a few on here testing colostrum with one I think?

I use one on colostrum myself but only ever used on grass at silage time . Would you test grass much with it , find what you doing very interesting

Say my name

trixi2011 wrote: »

I use one on colostrum myself but only ever used on grass at silage time . Would you test grass much with it , find what you doing very interesting

I'd test now and again.

Take that field that had the 6 reading. It's had the works up to now. It had slurry early on which would have had little bit of char quenched with real seaweed. Foliar seaweed and molasses. 20 units of urea spread/ac or 10 kgs of N (whichever people prefer). Foliar seaweed and molasses again with 14 units urea sprayed on.

Tillage boys and operators on your side of the water are way ahead on this stuff.

trg

We're getting rattled now with blood scour on 10 bought in calves. We've given them a cocci dose but still at it.

None off their drink at all though.

I see them tipping away at hay which is good. They are not touching the meal much at all.

They're between 40/60 days old. One issue we're finding it very difficult to see what animals are affected and between me in the morning and evening and the father during the day they are getting a good monitoring. It's demoralising to see it.

Any insights would be welcome.

I'm wondering should I separate them in 2 at least to try isolate the issue.

Any tips on promoting meal intake? I'm assuming reducing the milk would do so but then reading up on it it seems that you shouldn't reduce milk until meal going down at 1kg/1.5kg per day.

greysides

Give electrolytes to those that need it. Late treatment has little effect, they just have to get through it. Talk to your vet.

jd_12345

trg wrote: »

We're getting rattled now with blood scour on 10 bought in calves. We've given them a cocci dose but still at it.

None off their drink at all though.

I see them tipping away at hay which is good. They are not touching the meal much at all.

They're between 40/60 days old. One issue we're finding it very difficult to see what animals are affected and between me in the morning and evening and the father during the day they are getting a good monitoring. It's demoralising to see it.

Any insights would be welcome.

I'm wondering should I separate them in 2 at least to try isolate the issue.

Any tips on promoting meal intake? I'm assuming reducing the milk would do so but then reading up on it it seems that you shouldn't reduce milk until meal going down at 1kg/1.5kg per day.

Try scattering milk powder on the meal.
Make sure you’re using the most palatable meal possible. If you’re in the eastern part of the world Liffey Mills calf ration is great stuff as it has loads of mollasses type stuff in it. If you’re in the south dairygold sell the Liffey mills stuffs in a Dairygold bag- prime calf starter.
Otherwise there ain’t much you can do. Whatever you do keep in fresh. Don’t put our deep amounts of it. They’d nearly want to be licking the troughs when eating it up. It’ll just mean calling to them regularly with the meal.
Otherwise try calfage - a TMR mix in 25kg bags that gets calves eating a nutritious form of fibre.

tanko

trg wrote: »

We're getting rattled now with blood scour on 10 bought in calves. We've given them a cocci dose but still at it.

None off their drink at all though.

I see them tipping away at hay which is good. They are not touching the meal much at all.

They're between 40/60 days old. One issue we're finding it very difficult to see what animals are affected and between me in the morning and evening and the father during the day they are getting a good monitoring. It's demoralising to see it.

Any insights would be welcome.

I'm wondering should I separate them in 2 at least to try isolate the issue.

Any tips on promoting meal intake? I'm assuming reducing the milk would do so but then reading up on it it seems that you shouldn't reduce milk until meal going down at 1kg/1.5kg per day.

Are you giving them anything apart from the cocci dose?
Anytime i had a blood scour problem here i give a dose of Vecoxan, half a pack of Sulpha powder and a shot of Nuflor on day one and then half a sulpha powder on day two. This has never failed to work here but that's on suckler calves sucking cows.
At this stage i'd treat all the calves as if they have it, it's spreads easily in a group of calves.
Best talk to your vet also.

greysides

Sulpha powders are about the only treatment for coccidiosis. I don't rate the prevention drugs as treatment. In order to ensure we will still have it effective (antibiotic resistance) in years to come, the course suggested on the packet should be followed. Otherwise, you're selecting for coccidia that can survive a shorter period of attack. The packet I have here gives a length of 5-7 days after the initial day (which is at a double rate).
I'm not familiar with Nuflor as I use a generic, but once new regulations come in, a lot of the "better/newer" drugs will be difficult to use, and Nuflor is probably the only more recent drug to escape the list, so it would want to safeguarded too by following whatever rate and duration is in the instructions.

trg

Vet has come and gone. Basically need to keep the milk flowing and reduce down the meal offerings to very small amounts more of

It was coxxkure I gave them and he said that was good stuff and to give them another go of it.

But more or less just wait it out!

Tis some pain seeing it so often. Hopefully they'll get going soon

1373

From my experience of blood scours , you don’t cure the animal, it will cure itself. You can only make sure the calf gets its milk and feed while the bowels heal themselves. Again, from my experience, it can take up to a month for the dung to return to normal. A lot of damage gets done for for a calf to pass blood . What age are they

RD10

Had blood scour in calves 3 weeks ago, dosed the lot and every calf born since gets a dose when old enough.
2 had it bad, the Calf that had it the worst still hasnt completely dried up yet, gut is still healing i think. I had just given him more sulpha powders few days ago. Wasnt happy with him. Poor fella got a right dose of it though. On the mend and the rest seem fine.