Dublin city council (greens & cyclists) proposals for 30kmph

Phil.x

They want a blanket approach to implementing 30kmph throughout Dublin.
Have your say below.

https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/30km-h-survey/consultation/intro/

Ning

Great news, there should also be additional pedestrian crossings and cycle tracks.

Beta Ray Bill

Phil.x wrote: »

They want a blanket approach to implementing 30kmph throughout Dublin.
Have your say below.

https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/30km-h-survey/consultation/intro/

I've already filled out the survey.
It's an appalling idea.

Although DCC say they want to bring in the 30Km/h speed limit city wide to "Make the city safer", It is in fact a thinly veiled attempt to get Cars off the road by:
1: Throwing penalty points and fines at people.
2: Making journey times significantly longer. (min 30%)

The words "children" and "school" were mentioned in the survey heaps of times.
Along with stats of how likely someone is to be killed at various speeds. (It's tat basically, it assumes the cars have no brakes...)

I was also unable to find any info on the number of children seriously injured or killed on there way to or from school in Dublin city in the last X years.

I'm all for making the city safer. I used public transport pre-pandemic, and use a motorcycle recreationally. I would never drive into town. I'm also for more segregated cycle lanes where the cyclists have their own dedicated two lane path.
The only reason I own a car is to collect my kid from the other side of the city, and the odd occasion I need to do a big shop. And like EVERYONE else, I wouldn't own a car unless I needed one. (They are extremely expensive to own and run). And now the councils have this hairbrained idea to get cars off the road by reducing the speed to 30km/h.

Also there is talk about reducing the M50 speed down to 40km/h during busy periods (IE all/most of the time)

If you NEED your car, and live in Dublin City, you need to fill out this survey, it takes just 5 mins.

papu

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

I've already filled out the survey.
It's an appalling idea.

Although DCC say they want to bring in the 30Km/h speed limit city wide to "Make the city safer", It is in fact a thinly veiled attempt to get Cars off the road by:
1: Throwing penalty points and fines at people.
2: Making journey times significantly longer. (min 30%)

The words "children" and "school" were mentioned in the survey heaps of times.
Along with stats of how likely someone is to be killed at various speeds. (It's tat basically, it assumes the cars have no brakes...)

I was also unable to find any info on the number of children seriously injured or killed on there way to or from school in Dublin city in the last X years.

I'm all for making the city safer. I used public transport pre-pandemic, and use a motorcycle recreationally. I would never drive into town. I'm also for more segregated cycle lanes where the cyclists have their own dedicated two lane path.
The only reason I own a car is to collect my kid from the other side of the city, and the odd occasion I need to do a big shop. And like EVERYONE else, I wouldn't own a car unless I needed one. (They are extremely expensive to own and run). And now the councils have this hairbrained idea to get cars off the road by reducing the speed to 30km/h.

Also there is talk about reducing the M50 speed down to 40km/h during busy periods (IE all/most of the time)

If you NEED your car, and live in Dublin City, you need to fill out this survey, it takes just 5 mins.

Well fines and penalty points are given if you speed.. so don't... and journey times could actually be improved during rush hour. It might also decrease accidents and associated delays. I don't see how 30km/h gets cars off the roads? You can just drive at the slower speeds...

I think it's a good idea, but enforcement will be the issue, it's impossible to drive at 30km in the established zones at the moment, folks drive so agro

Eric Cartman

Its all part of their road diet plan. Its only going to massively increase costs for consumers and companies. The government pushed everyone out of the city with poor pricing of accommodation, left them no choice but to drive due to terrible transport options and now wants to squeeze those people further.

Beta Ray Bill

papu wrote: »

Well fines and penalty points are given if you speed.. so don't... and journey times could actually be improved during rush hour. It might also decrease accidents and associated delays. I don't see how 30km/h gets cars off the roads? You can just drive at the slower speeds...

I think it's a good idea, but enforcement will be the issue, it's impossible to drive at 30km in the established zones at the moment, folks drive so agro

Aye, don't but now my journey time has increased by 30%
Time = Money
Have you ever actually tried to drive a mid sized car at 30km/h on a main road?
It's actually ridiculous.
Example:
I have to drive from Raheny to Ballyboden and back twice a week,
A reduction to 30km/h would see my round trip journey time by 15/20 mins
I pushing it as it is, collecting my kid at lunch time from work. An additional 15/20 mins is not acceptable. I'll need to start taking time off, now it's costing me money.

The idea is a simple one, inconvenience car users more and more without providing viable alternative. I get we have issues with traffic and carbon emissions, 100% I do and I do think we need to do something about that and Electric cars do look like the way forward there.

But this approach is like an Alarm bell ringing, and the solution is to turn off the bell instead of fixing the underlying problem. This is commonly known to greens and anti car people as Traffic Evaporation (As it sounds like a nice term that everyone can get behind) but all it really is, is banning cars.

Honestly, if I didn't need a car I wouldn't own one, owning a car in Ireland is an absolute RIP OFF. I hate that I have to own one. I'm nearly sure the 30km/h idea is going hand in hand with reducing the speed limit on the m50 to 40km/h during busy periods (Basically Mon - Fri, 7am -11am, 3pm - 7pm) And they don't want people driving through the city centre as its faster.

I get people from the country don't care to much about this, but in reality they should, cause if it passes here in the big Schmoke, the same will be heading out to the country side

EDIT: Enforcement will not be an issue, they will just have speed camera vans everywhere, I see them more and more in the suburbs in Dublin now.

Beta Ray Bill

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I love these threads, people who have never posted in motors suddenly come out of the woodwork

I was just about to say that! LOL! :pac:

Larbre34

My long hand response to the consultation is below. In the body of the online responses I objected to any main routes being reduced below 50 km/h.

"I supported the introduction of 30 km/h speed limits in side streets, residential estates, commercial and industrial estates and Dublin's older narrow and winding streets.

This proposal, to lower the speed limits on main traffic routes in the City, roads designated, in part or all, i.e.,'National', 'Regional', Local Primary/Secondary to 30 km/h is over zealous and without any credibility.

If enacted as proposed, Dublin's residents, as well as visitors and commercial drivers will be subjected to wholly unnecessary and unfair limits on main routes, which will relieve them both of their hard earned money and eventually of their driving licences, which in some cases will remove their livelihood.

Simply put, the accident statistics in this City do not warrant this draconian proposal. As we see every day along sections of the Liffey quays, the people have zero regard for the unnecessary 30 limit and if enacted, this proposal will just increase this lack of support. This in turn will lead to the City Council, executive and Members, being brought to Court to justify these measures if drivers feel they are being unfairly treated and seek to overturn the bye-laws.

Both the executive and Members who will ultimately vote on these proposals ought to bear in mind, this City belongs to the people and is not their private board game.

Seek to enact appropriate measures, not prohibitive ones and you will have widespread support. Do otherwise and you will fail, in Court, in front of the Oireachtas or at the ballot box."

PickYourName

Here's my contribution to the consultation:

"The whole exercise is a piece of window dressing to create the impression something is being done to improve safety.

Bringing in new laws creates the impression of action, but when existing ones are so badly enforced, all it does is create further disregard for the rules that are there.

We are very good in this country at “solving” problems by introducing laws or authorities passing the burden of compliance onto others. If DCC were serious about safety, it would clamp down on issues that actually cause accidents and fatalities, in particular red-light jumping at traffic lights and ignoring of the existing 30 kph and 50 kph limits.

I fully support 30 kph on all side roads and rigorous enforcement of all existing speed limits and red-light jumping, which has caused two fatalities in the last ten years within 500m of where I live. If and when that happens, then consider extending, but introducing yet more restrictions just brings the rules into disrepute, rendering them meaningless. To see this in action, the James’s Hospital campus has a limit of 15kph. Compliance is 0%, with the effect that there’s no limit: it’s just ignored. It does literally nothing for safety, quite the opposite in fact.

At best, this is a waste of time and resources, at worst it is counter productive. If DCC were serious about road safety, there are far higher priority things they could be doing, notably enforcement."

Wishbone Ash

PickYourName wrote: »

... If DCC were serious about road safety, there are far higher priority things they could be doing, notably enforcement."

It's not up to a local authority to enforce the Road Traffic Regulations.

Hurrache

Phil.x wrote: »

They want a blanket approach to implementing 30kmph throughout Dublin.
Have your say below.

https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/30km-h-survey/consultation/intro/

It's not throughout Dublin for starters.

Hurrache

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Have you ever actually tried to drive a mid sized car at 30km/h on a main road?
It's actually ridiculous.
Example:
I have to drive from Raheny to Ballyboden and back twice a week,
A reduction to 30km/h would see my round trip journey time by 15/20 mins
I pushing it as it is, collecting my kid at lunch time from work. An additional 15/20 mins is not acceptable. I'll need to start taking time off, now it's costing me money.

Loads of us do drive small, medium and large cars, and we don't find it difficult to drive a car of any size at a particular speed.

Why would you bother driving through the city to get from Raheny to Ballyboden anyway if time is so precious to you?

You gotta laugh though, anyone who drives regularly around Dublin City will find you'd be pushed to average 30kmh within the city anyway around the few hours a day labelled "rush hour", so it's going to make little difference.

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I love these threads, people who have never posted in motors suddenly come out of the woodwork

It's a silly observation though isn't it, considering the proposals relate to the people of the city, not just those who drive and post in this forum, unless this is just a local thread for local posters?

kaahooters

seems we can have the choice of either 30km, or 40km, but not keep as is.

frozenfrozen

Every road they want 30km/h on should come with an individual report of what would be required to bring it back up to the old limit. Segregated cycle lane or extra zebra crossings and railings to separate pedestrians from the road

Then they can bring in the limits until they finish making the roads safer. Unless of course their big plan is to just make all vehicles go slow enough theyre happy for people to get the odd non-lethal slap of a car

Cars don't want to endanger pedestrians they want to get from A to B. Stop making a to b be dangerous roads where the sum total of safe road design thought was we are going to make the cars drive slowly

PickYourName

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It's not up to a local authority to enforce the Road Traffic Regulations.

They mightn't have the powers to enforce, but they are a key stakeholder. For example, they could fund and provide speed detection cameras, technology at intersections to detect red light jumping and so on.

Beta Ray Bill

Hurrache wrote: »

Loads of us do drive small, medium and large cars, and we don't find it difficult to drive a car of any size at a particular speed.

I'm referring to the ridiculousness of it.
The road is so wide and there you are creeping along at a snails pace.

Note: I do support 15km/h speed limits within housing estates.

Hurrache wrote: »

Why would you bother driving through the city to get from Raheny to Ballyboden anyway if time is so precious to you?

Because during rush hour/very busy periods they want to reduce the speed on the M50 down to 40km/h. As already mentioned, these changes will probably go in hand in hand

Hurrache wrote: »

You gotta laugh though, anyone who drives regularly around Dublin City will find you'd be pushed to average 30kmh within the city anyway around the few hours a day labelled "rush hour", so it's going to make little difference.

Thankfully I don't.
While I believe that average speed of a journey wouldn't be much more than 40km/h around Dublin, depending on the roads/time of day, I feel that a limit of 30km/h would bring that down to near 20km/h mark.

I also take your point that it's not the entire city, and that there are some main roads that will "not" be included such as the Malahide road. The issue there is though that there are lots of schools on or near the Malahide road.

Even if the council put up 30km/h and 40km/h signs according to the underlying idea, this would still effectively mean the road is a 30km/h road.
What's more likely is the council will just make the road a 30km/h (half baked and half arsed.... the usual)

kaahooters

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2021/0519/1222707-dublin-speed-limit/

seems to have been droped.

biko

A plan to make 30km/h the default speed limit in Dublin city looks set to be dropped, after public consultation revealed a lack of support.

There have been a thread in CA for quite some time. May as well use that https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058083347