Strange managerial relationship.

LegacyUser

This could be a long post, so apologies in advance.

Probably best if I start off this post by saying that I am new to Ireland. My current place of work is the only place of work that I've ever had here. I joined the organisation two years ago, on moving to Ireland.

On joining the organisation, I was told that manager 'B' would be mentoring me, and she would evaluate my progress, approve my leave requests, answer any questions that I have etc. Manager 'B' has been working with the company for many years, well over ten years. After I joined, Manager 'B' ignored me for weeks on end. I sat beside her in the office, and she wouldn't even say "hello". I tried to force some conversation and she'd shut it down. I worked very closely with a senior PM, and a member of the senior executive at the time, and my work came from them. Six months passed; the end of my probation period, and I heard nothing from manager 'B'. I brought it up with the senior PM, who I got on great with, and he just laughed it off. He told me that manager 'B' doesn't like people who are younger than her, that she doesn't like people who are older than her, and she really doesn't like other women. He told me not to worry about my probation unless I hear otherwise.

An issue arose with another new joiner a few months later. He joined the team two months after I joined. He was let go at the end of his probation period. Manager 'B' ignored him, just like me, but he was let go following a negative report from manager 'B'. HR approached me at that point, and the HR manager scheduled a meeting with me. She asked me what manager 'B' was like with me. I told her that manager 'B' ignored me also. I told her that manager 'B' didn't speak to me at the end of my probation period. She apologized on behalf of the organisation. She begged me not to leave the organisation, and told me that senior management would be "devastated" if I left. She also told me that many attempts had be made to address the issues with manager 'B'. They'd sent her on training, and offered her alternative roles in the organisation, but she doesn't want to move. It was acknowledged that she was/is failing as a manager.

Changes were made in the senior executive last year, and the senior PM and I started working with a new lady, Director 'D'. 'D' and I got on great from day one. We think and work the same way. If she has a question, she calls me up, I'll give her some options, and my opinion. She'll run with my suggestion 99% of the time. Director 'D' is a lot more progressive and aggressive than her predecessor, and that doesn't sit well with manager 'B'. On joining the organisation, director 'D' decided to sit in all of the meetings with our clients, and she asked lots of questions afterwards. Manager 'B' really struggled with this, and she tended to direct the questions to me, or say that she couldn't understand the question, or give an answer. English isn't her first language, and she used that as an excuse most of the time. Director 'D' called me one evening, and she voiced her concerns about the team and the way it was approaching work. She asked me about my thoughts on the approach that the team was taking, and I confirmed her concerns. We agreed to schedule a one-to-one weekly discussion, to put a roadmap in place to address these issues, and director 'D' asked me not to disclose this to anyone else. A few weeks ago, director 'D' gave me a bonus, which she asked me to keep secret, and she also asked me about my plans for the future. I told her about my ideal role, and I also put forward a sample specification for the role. The specification in question was heavily linked to the roadmap that we have put in place to resolve issues with the team. Director 'D' responded by saying that she was happy for me to do the work, but she felt that the introduction of the new role at this moment in time would upset the team dynamic, and it would be "disrespectful" to manager 'B'.

Director 'D' and manager 'B' meet on a weekly basis also. The whole company, not just our team, knows about this meeting. Manager 'B' tells everyone about it. Manager 'B' called me last week, for the first time ever, and started rambling on about director 'D', telling me that she, manager 'B', knows her, director 'D', very well, and she can raise any questions that I might have with her, or ask her to approve training for me. She did request that I route all queries for director 'D' through her. She stated that director 'D' is incredibly busy, and it would be unfair of me to call her directly. Late last month, the senior PM I work with was let go when the company was restructured, along with a number of other highly experience members of staff. I was devastated to see him go. Manager 'B' was awarded the employee of the year!

I'd just like to get some feedback or thoughts on what is going on. I'm not familiar with office politics in Ireland. Am I missing something here? I can't fathom why manager 'B' wasn't moved on along with the other experienced employees. Secondly, why is the director leaning on me so often, but unwilling to promote me? Aside from her years of service, manager 'B' has no special connection to the organisation. We do have one team member who doesn't do any work but he is a GAA player. The company have him on the books for PR reasons. She has no external connections like that. I've a job offer with a new company on the table at the moment. Is it time to move onto something new?

thefa

Manager B could have stronger connections to owners and directors than you think. Maybe her years make her expensive to make redundant and her performance is perceived differently by the decision makers (employee of the year). If they were restructuring recently, maybe they feel they don’t want to be creating new positions.

If you have an offer on the table with good money, interesting work and the prospects are good, could be well worth a go. You will have to build up your reputation in the new workplace so may not be in a position to go for a promotion for a while but no loss if your current employer won’t give you one. Would be interesting to see what they would do if you handed in your notice since they know exactly what you want.

Mrs OBumble

I'll expect that Manager B is related to or sleeping with someone important.

Take the new job.

Depending on where you've come from, one important thing to know about Ireland is that it's very tough to fire people. I know you said people were let go, but it's likely they may have been offered a pay package to go, and if manager B didn't want to take it, it's tough to get rid of her.

Someone like that in your company, if dissatisfied, can cause larger issues. So management may just want to appease her by coaching and encouraging you behind her back, so as not to provoke her.

It's also possible that perhaps in their intention to build a good case for getting rid of manager B, they may have put her on some kind of performance management program, whereby when an employee is performing poorly, you make efforts to coach them and help them improve (but all too often this is just used as a way to absolve the company of liability by documenting long-term evidence of the employee not improving). Perhaps the reason manager B goes on about these regular meetings, is because she's trying to hide the fact that her performance is being monitored and discussed on a weekly basis?

And perhaps during these weekly meetings, the director has accidentally shown their true feelings now and then about the fact that they're a fan of you, or that they talk to you, and this has made manager B paranoid that your feedback could affect their performance review. This could explain why manager B decided to call you up to suggest you pass everything through her.

It's total speculation, but I think it might explain some of manager B's behaviour.

LimeFruitGum

She could well be one of those people who deliver great results at whatever it is they do, but should never have been promoted into management.
It does sound like she's someone you just can't fire straight away, and they're covering their tracks.

Take the new job, OP and enjoy the fresh start.
It's great that Director D is getting involved, but you're not obliged to stay because of it. I don't really like the sound of all these secrets. That's a lot of mental overhead for a job.

bucketybuck

LimeFruitGum wrote: »

It's great that Director D is getting involved

But it is not great that Director D is meeting the OP privately while also meeting manager B privately. It is also not great that certain things happening in the real world are not matching the views expressed behind closed doors. Sounds exactly like a situation of playing one side against the other.

HR apologising for manager B failing as a manager but then manager B named employee of the year? The senior PM laid off but not manager B? Manager B now contacting the OP and trying to isolate them from director D?

Best case scenario is that the OP gets caught in the middle of office politics. Worst case scenario they are misjudging things badly, that they aren't the golden boy/girl at all and that manager B will have the last laugh as the OP follows the senior PM out the door.

If I had a good job offer on the table I would strongly consider taking it, or at least using it to force a few hands. If you hand in your notice and they fight hard to keep you at least you know that you aren't about to be sideswiped.

Boscoirl

If you like working there, and would prefer not to leave, got to Director D, saying you have an offer on the table. explain why you are considering it (career prgression etc) see if they counter offer. that way you'll know if you are wasting your time, and woud have no regrets if you take the new job

homer911

Time to move on, I'm sure you will have a great looking CV

LegacyUser

Thanks for your replies.

Some really interesting feedback. Bucketybuck's point regarding office politics stands out. I've decided to accept the job offer, and I am in the process of getting the contract finalized, and my references checked. All going well, I should be in a position to resign at the end of next week.

I've detached myself from the organisation over the past week or so, and I've noticed a few things which help answer some of my questions. Manager B is really good at getting small wins. Comments have been passed, by managerial and non-managerial staff, about the employee of the year award. People can't believe it. I can see how she got the award now.

Director D has asked me to work on a new project. We are attempting to solve a problem that has plagued the company for years. We were on a call on Tuesday with the CEO, COO and a few other senior managers. Director D said that I am going to be working on this project, but she also said that manager B is going to be helping me with it. She elaborated a little more and said that manager B was going to be offering me guidance on the subject. I thought that it was an odd thing to say given that manager B has attempted and failed to address this issue on a number of occasions. If I did stay and resolve this issue, I fear that manager B will end up getting the credit.

I also had another private call with director D on Wednesday. It was positive and constructive as usual, but she closed it by asking me to speak to her if I was thinking about leaving, which is very timely. Part of me is wondering if she knows that I am thinking about leaving. I was caught off guard by the request, so I decided to hold off telling her. Would it best to hold off on telling her until I receive and review the contract? On another note, and a very odd one at that, manager B called me yesterday and she told me about a former employee, a project manager, who called her into a meeting room one morning, and gave out to her. This PM shouted at manager B, and she told manager B that she was a nightmare to work with. This all happened before I joined the organisation. I've never worked with or met this ex-employee. I just kept changing the subject. Didn't know what to make of what she was saying to me, or what she expected me to say.