Touching ball rule

Gaoth Laidir

Could you help clear this up for me please?

In a touching ball scenario (e.g. behind and touching the yellow after potting a red), if I want to nominate the yellow as my colour, can I play away from it onto a cushion and back onto the same position again to snooker behind it, touching it again? I imagine it's not a foul, as the yellow doesn't move during my stroke, only after the cue ball has hit the cushion. I know I must verbally nominate the yellow or it's a foul (seven points away, right?).

There seems to be some confusion on this. The official rules (quoted below) doesn't mention this particular scenario as such but there is a variety of opinions on message boards, such as this.

https://wpbsa.com/wp-content/uploads/WPBSA-Official-Rules-of-the-Games-of-Snooker-and-Billiards-2020.pdf

8. Touching Ball

(a) If at the completion of a stroke the cue-ball is touching a ball or balls on, or that could be on, the referee shall call TOUCHING BALL and, in the event of any doubt, indicate which ball or balls on the cue-ball is touching. If the cue-ball is touching one or more colours after a Red (or a free ball nominated as a Red) has been potted, the referee shall also ask the striker to DECLARE which
colour they are on.

(b) When a TOUCHING BALL has been called, the striker must play the cue-ball away from that ball without moving it or it is a push stroke.

(c) Providing the striker, in playing a stroke, does not cause any touching object ball to move, there shall be no penalty if:
(i) the ball is on;
(ii) the ball could be on and the striker declares they are on it; or
(iii) the ball could be on and the striker declares, and first hits, another ball that could be on.

(d) If the cue-ball comes to rest touching or nearly touching a ball that is not on, the referee, if asked whether it is touching, will clarify the situation.

(e) When the cue-ball is touching both a ball on and a ball not on, the referee shall only indicate the ball on as touching. If the striker should ask the referee whether the cue-ball is also touching the ball not on, they are entitled to be told.

(f) It is not a foul if the referee is satisfied that any movement of a touching ball at the moment of striking was not caused by the striker.

(g) If a stationary object ball, not touching the cue-ball when examined by the referee, is later seen to be in contact with the cue-ball before a stroke has been made, the balls shall be repositioned by the referee to their
satisfaction. This also applies to a touching ball which later, when examined by the referee, is not touching.

AllForIt

Once you play away from the yellow without it moving and you nominated it, where the cue ball goes after that is irrelevant.

The reason it's a foul for the yellow to move on strike is because that is a 'push shot'* which in any scenario is a foul. That the cue ball comes off the cushion and moves it is not a foul because your cue is not involved there so not a push shot.

*cue, cue ball and object ball all touching at the same time

Gaoth Laidir

AllForIt wrote: »

Once you play away from the yellow without it moving and you nominated it, where the cue ball goes after that is irrelevant.

The reason it's a foul for the yellow to move on strike is because that is a 'push shot'* which in any scenario is a foul. That the cue ball comes off the cushion and moves it is not a foul because your cue is not involved there so not a push shot.

*cue, cue ball and object ball all touching at the same time

Yeah, it actually seems obvious now that I read your answer.

Hotblack Desiato

If the touching ball is the ball on and you play away from it without moving the ball on, you are deemed to have correctly played the ball on, so any other ball the cue ball hits after that is irrelevant (as long as you don't pot a ball not on)

YFlyer

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

If the touching ball is the ball on and you play away from it without moving the ball on, you are deemed to have correctly played the ball on, so any other ball the cue ball hits after that is irrelevant (as long as you don't pot a ball not on)

Unless the touching ball is red. You can pot another red.

mickdw

Ya, it would appear straight forward. Touching yellow, once nominated and play away, the shot is good. You can hit the cue ball straight onto the blue for example and its still a good shot.

Hotblack Desiato

YFlyer wrote: »

Unless the touching ball is red. You can pot another red.

If red is the ball on, and you pot another red then it's also the ball on

Holy Diver

Pretty sure you can’t snooker behind the ball you nominate in a free ball situation.

Gaoth Laidir

Holy Diver wrote: »

Pretty sure you can’t snooker behind the ball you nominate in a free ball situation.

Correct. But this is about touching ball.

Holy Diver

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Correct. But this is about touching ball.

Indeed it is!

mickdw

Holy Diver wrote: »

Indeed it is!

I didnt half read the question originally but yes he does refer to nominating yellow while touching playing away but coming off the cushion and snookering behind it again in same position.
I imagine the rule re not snookering behind a free ball was designed to just stop rolling up to it and putting oponent in trouble with little difficulty however i dont think playing off a cushion would undo this rule but its not something ive ever thought about before.

YFlyer

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

If red is the ball on, and you pot another red then it's also the ball on

Not exactly. You can hit a colour or another red prior to potting a red.

Holy Diver

mickdw wrote: »

I didnt half read the question originally but yes he does refer to nominating yellow while touching playing away but coming off the cushion and snookering behind it again in same position.
I imagine the rule re not snookering behind a free ball was designed to just stop rolling up to it and putting oponent in trouble with little difficulty however i dont think playing off a cushion would undo this rule but its not something ive ever thought about before.

I didn’t read properly either. Apologies

Gaoth Laidir

So theoretically, if you're touching a red and red is ball on, you could hit away, using a colour as a plant to pot another red, right?

YFlyer

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

So theoretically, if you're touching a red and red is ball on, you could hit away, using a colour as a plant to pot another red, right?

Yes. You could pot the touching red as long as the white moves away from the red beforehand.