Mortgage payment now going to 'Phoenix 7'

Wheety

Just curious about something.

Today my mortgage payment went to "Phoenix 7". Normally it says KBC.

According to this it's an "RMBS"
https://www.fitchratings.com/research/structured-finance/phoenix-funding-7-designated-activity-company-24-02-2021



Had a look here at what an RMBS is:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/rmbs.asp

So did KBC sell a bond for these mortgages? Does that mean they received the money up front and payments are now going directly to the investors?

Would this be seen as a 'vulture fund'? Or is it different?

Our mortgage is fully up to date and have never missed a payment. We have no letter from KBC so I presume our mortgage, for all intents and purposes, is still with KBC and we still deal with them?

sentient_6

Whatever you do anyway don't pick up the phone and ring KBC. Its not like you'd have your answer quicker than it took to write that post.

Wheety

Cheers for the advice.

Wheety

Seems it's a very normal practice. Life Insurance companies tend to be the investors. They're taking the risk that the borrowers don't pay off their loan early or default. Well I presume it would have to be a fair few for it to make a dent in their profits.

We are over paying anyway so will not be paying the full interest for one.

KBC can then loan out that money again. Maybe because they make the most money during the early years of the mortgage? We're 6 years in now so maybe it makes sense to cash in and start again with someone?

fjon

Just checked my bank details and my latest mortgage payment is also marked as Phoenix 7.
I'm 3 years into a mortgage so it's a new one.

Wheety

fjon wrote: »

Just checked my bank details and my latest mortgage payment is also marked as Phoenix 7.
I'm 3 years into a mortgage so it's a new one.

Looking on Investopedia it seems they get a mix in their portfolio of mortgages.

Darc19

Its totally normal and actually written in your mortgage contract that they will securitise the mortgages.

They have been doing it for years and no-one has had an issue.

Then some utter rag comes along and creates a scare even though that rag (indo) knows EXACTLY what it is, yet creates a wild scaremongering BS story.

My mortgage (tracker) is with phoenix2 for about 12 years and it makes absolutely zero difference

The J Stands for Jay

Darc19 wrote: »

Then some utter rag comes along and creates a scare even though that rag (indo) knows EXACTLY what it is, yet creates a wild scaremongering BS story.

For all of his stories, I always wonder of he's trying to write a clickbait story or if he doesn't understand most financial concepts. I suspect he doesn't understand most things.

salmocab

Darc19 wrote: »

Its totally normal and actually written in your mortgage contract that they will securitise the mortgages.

They have been doing it for years and no-one has had an issue.

Then some utter rag comes along and creates a scare even though that rag (indo) knows EXACTLY what it is, yet creates a wild scaremongering BS story.

My mortgage (tracker) is with phoenix2 for about 12 years and it makes absolutely zero difference

Presumably you still deal with kbc if you need to do anything like increase payments?

Manion

Same thing happened to me. Does this affect the terms of the mortgage?

Dream123

Manion wrote: »

Same thing happened to me. Does this affect the terms of the mortgage?

No - your contract will be no different, shouldn’t be anything to worry about

retalivity

Mine came out this morning to this Phoenix 7, however it was the original minimum repayment, not the scheduled overpayment thatI've had for ~1.5 years now.
I was meant to ring them earlier but forgot, however its strange that the SO recipient and the repayment amount has changed

Manion

retalivity wrote: »

Mine came out this morning to this Phoenix 7, however it was the original minimum repayment, not the scheduled overpayment thatI've had for ~1.5 years now.
I was meant to ring them earlier but forgot, however its strange that the SO recipient and the repayment amount has changed

This is what has me concerned. I only noticed tonight. Like you I've been overpaying but with a limp sum. I wonder will this continue.

Wheety

retalivity wrote: »

Mine came out this morning to this Phoenix 7, however it was the original minimum repayment, not the scheduled overpayment thatI've had for ~1.5 years now.
I was meant to ring them earlier but forgot, however its strange that the SO recipient and the repayment amount has changed

We're over paying monthly and the correct amount came out today.

Darc19

salmocab wrote: »

Presumably you still deal with kbc if you need to do anything like increase payments?

No change whatsoever in anything. Your mortgage is still with KBC, they still own, operate and benefit from the mortgage.

Your mortgage is an asset of theirs. They simply used this asset to borrow funds from the bond market. If KBC went bust (virtually zero chance) then the bondholders would own your mortgage. (and terms and conditions stay identical)

Some bank do it the opposite way - last year PTSB borrowed from the bond markets first and then lent the money.

Generally bond owners are massive pension funds - so if you have a private or company pension your pension may have 0.0001% of your mortgage as security against the bond.

Its a fairly boring humdrum transaction and Charlie Weston knows that - if he didn't he'd be the worst financial journalist in the world because this is such an elementary transaction.

It was pure lick bait rubbish designed to scare people who would not know these things. Shameful behaviour by the indo

Wheety

Darc19 wrote: »

Its a fairly boring humdrum transaction and Charlie Weston knows that - if he didn't he'd be the worst financial journalist in the world because this is such an elementary transaction.

It was pure lick bait rubbish designed to scare people who would not know these things. Shameful behaviour by the indo

Was this a recent article? I'd be interested in having a look.

As a lay person, a quick Google showed me it was normal. My OP certainly wasn't meant to cause panic with anyone. I was just more curious than anything.

But you'd expect a financial journalist to know it for sure.

Edit: I found the link through his Twitter

youcancallmeal

It was in the news today as well. Seems like they messed internally as this kind of securitisation isn't meant to be visible to the customer, i.e. payment name should have stayed the same

listermint

youcancallmeal wrote: »

It was in the news today as well. Seems like they messed internally as this kind of securitisation isn't meant to be visible to the customer, i.e. payment name should have stayed the same

Tbf seems kinda absolutely stupid from KBC and their IT team.

Pretty moronic mistake to make to publish their reference codes publicly to the consumer.

listermint

Darc19 wrote: »

Its totally normal and actually written in your mortgage contract that they will securitise the mortgages.

They have been doing it for years and no-one has had an issue.

Then some utter rag comes along and creates a scare even though that rag (indo) knows EXACTLY what it is, yet creates a wild scaremongering BS story.

My mortgage (tracker) is with phoenix2 for about 12 years and it makes absolutely zero difference

Well well ,


It appears this so called IT blip and normal transaction has alot more meaning behind it now doesn't it .

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0416/1210209-kbc-bank-ireland/

Darc19

listermint wrote: »

Well well ,


It appears this so called IT blip and normal transaction has alot more meaning behind it now doesn't it .

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2021/0416/1210209-kbc-bank-ireland/

Not at all.

As I said I'm in phoenix 2 fund and that was created about 12 years ago.

If you have a KBC mortgage you will see it detailed in the terms and conditions. I suspect most banks have it as it is as boring and humdrum financial transaction as you can get.

Key in ISE KBC phoenix 5 and the 2012 fund prospectus should come up.

They are mortgage backed loan notes.

Dillosk did one in February,
Bank of Ireland call them "covered bonds" and placed one last December.

Bog standard funding instrument.

listermint

Darc19 wrote: »

Not at all.

As I said I'm in phoenix 2 fund and that was created about 12 years ago.

If you have a KBC mortgage you will see it detailed in the terms and conditions. I suspect most banks have it as it is as boring and humdrum financial transaction as you can get.

Key in ISE KBC phoenix 5 and the 2012 fund prospectus should come up.

They are mortgage backed loan notes.

Dillosk did one in February,
Bank of Ireland call them "covered bonds" and placed one last December.

Bog standard funding instrument.

Why do you need funding if your selling the entire portfolios in a few weeks. It's a bit suspect tbh. It would be normal of the current events had not transpired

Darc19

listermint wrote: »

Why do you need funding if your selling the entire portfolios in a few weeks. It's a bit suspect tbh. It would be normal of the current events had not transpired

KBC are an international bank. They are still very much open and lending. Just not in Ireland.

listermint

Darc19 wrote: »

KBC are an international bank. They are still very much open and lending. Just not in Ireland.

Theyre international? No way :P..

Leveraging assets you are intending on selling as security to get more funding is odd. That's my point . It doesn't matter how international they are for leveraging of those assets.

Darc19

listermint wrote: »

Theyre international? No way :P..

Leveraging assets you are intending on selling as security to get more funding is odd. That's my point . It doesn't matter how international they are for leveraging of those assets.

The bond went to market in February.

They did similar several times over the years as has nearly every bank. (Not just here)

It really is a very boring normal activity of a bank.

As I said, my mortgage is phoenix 2. I know that because the mortgage interest relief would have phoenix 2 on it since about 2009.

Since then you've had phoenix 3, 4, 5, 6 & 7

Google it and you can read the 100+ page prospectus of whichever one you like.

The main buyers of these bonds are pension funds