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Soical housing question

  • 31-03-2021 4:41pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 18,357 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    Quick question & sorry if its an obvious answer


    Thankfully iv never been in need of social housing iv always been lucky enough to be in a position where its just not something need but iv always wondered what happens if a family are just under the wage threshold and qualify for the scheme , Say they move in and then down the line one of the parents is offered a better job or a wage increase that just pushes them beyond the threshold ,


    Do they get kicked out or what is the protocol ?


    Basically does it leave people in a position of not wanting to further themselves as the wage increase would have to be one of a huge jump for them not to be actually worse off financially


    I know most people have the desire to improve and do better in life but does it leave some people stuck with the option of furthering themselves more of a hindrance ?


    I suppose the same question would apply to the HAP scheme,
    As far as I know you can receive around 1200 a month in Dublin so that's over 14 grand a year , So unless your getting a pay rise to match that you'd be losing out on money, ( I know its not your money )


    You can see how some people get stuck in the cycle of not wanting to improve


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,099 ✭✭✭✭ Oranage2


    Maybe not the right forum but it does happen, I'm not sure with rent allowance being such a big deterrent as it's a percentage of the income, but things like work schemes were the person can work 20 hours and keep their benefits are imo, nobody is going to work twice as long and lose a load other benefits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭ Sleepy


    The HAP scheme is slightly different but once you're in a council house, it's a house for life. Your rent will be assessed as:

    12% of the “assessable income” of the principal earner

    + 12% of income of each subsidiary earner to a maximum of €40.00 per week per Subsidiary Earner.

    Assessable income is: Job Seekers Benefits/Allowances/FIS for those in receipt of social welfare payments and/or gross pay less tax, PRSI and USC (i.e. net income) for those earning a wage.

    More details: https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2019-03/Differential%20Rent%20Scheme.pdf


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,357 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright


    Sleepy wrote: »
    The HAP scheme is slightly difference but once you're in a council house, it's a house for life. Your rent will be assessed as:

    12% of the “assessable income” of the principal earner

    + 12% of income of each subsidiary earner to a maximum of €40.00 per week per Subsidiary Earner.

    Assessable income is: Job Seekers Benefits/Allowances/FIS for those in receipt of social welfare payments and/or gross pay less tax, PRSI and USC (i.e. net income) for those earning a wage.

    More details: https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2019-03/Differential%20Rent%20Scheme.pdf





    Ah I didn't know they got the house for life,


    So basically if they improve there wages and income they rent on the house would increase inline with that .,

    Makes sense close thread I have my answer .

    I knew it was something simple


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,889 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble


    Ah I didn't know they got the house for life,


    So basically if they improve there wages and income they rent on the house would increase inline with that .,
    Yes rent increase, but only up to a maximum level.

    And you can get weird scenarios where the social house rental is more that market rent, for some people in some areas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭ ...Ghost...


    Ah I didn't know they got the house for life,

    This is a big part of the problem where people are left in houses in excess of their needs after the kids move out. There are plenty of 3 bed council houses with a single occupant. Needs should be assessed on a regular basis for council house stock and tenants.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭ Sleepy


    They would be weird scenarios alright Mrs OBumble, most would be significantly below market rent, particularly when max levels are hit (they differ by council IIRC).

    Most that get into that situation though, would be able to avail of the (wildly overly generous imo) Incremental Purchase Scheme which allows council tenants to buy the property from the council at a substantial discount. It's our latest version of Thatcher's "Right to Buy" scheme and it's resulted in our councils not having enough housing stock.


  • Registered Users Posts: 648 ✭✭✭ Fred Cryton


    Sleepy wrote: »
    The HAP scheme is slightly difference but once you're in a council house, it's a house for life. Your rent will be assessed as:

    12% of the “assessable income” of the principal earner

    + 12% of income of each subsidiary earner to a maximum of €40.00 per week per Subsidiary Earner.

    Assessable income is: Job Seekers Benefits/Allowances/FIS for those in receipt of social welfare payments and/or gross pay less tax, PRSI and USC (i.e. net income) for those earning a wage.

    More details: https://www.fingal.ie/sites/default/files/2019-03/Differential%20Rent%20Scheme.pdf


    Why would they cap it at €40 a week? why not just 12% of what they earn? Would just love to hear a justification, like why would it be capped at a euro amount?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭ fussyonion


    This is a big part of the problem where people are left in houses in excess of their needs after the kids move out. There are plenty of 3 bed council houses with a single occupant. Needs should be assessed on a regular basis for council house stock and tenants.

    Definitely.
    I know a girl whose parents died and she's living in the family home. A three bed semi detached house. Just her. She has a good job and pays very little rent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 378 ✭✭ revoke12


    hi everyone can i ask here is the threshold for social housing on your net or gross income? They said my gross was over but on the websites it says its taken by your net income?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,773 ✭✭✭✭ rob316


    Its for life or you can buy it. I bought my house off them on the incremental purchase scheme 5 years as the rent I was paying was exceeding what a mortgage would cost and the price with the discount was a give away. I'm currently house hunting for a new house and the council want to buy it back off us at todays market rate less the clawback as there is a still a large charge on the house. I will still make a nice profit on the sale though. It's an absolutely scandalous use of tax payers money to be honest.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭ MSVforever


    I knew someone who was offered their house by SDCC for less than €80k about 13 years ago but the person declined the offer has they had only to pay 10% of their social welfare for rent and everything else was looked after by the council. Similar houses sell now for +€260k on the open market.

    How much would be the clawback amount?



  • Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭ MSVforever





  • Registered Users Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭ Loueze


    The problem is, the local authorities have no 1 and very few 2 bed units to relocate these tenants to, and they don't build any. Serious lack of planning forethought on their part.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,773 ✭✭✭✭ rob316


    50% discount I got, there is 2% taken off every year so I'll have earned 10% back of there 50%. Its worth 3 times what I paid now. As I said its a scandalous use of tax payers money.

    My honest opinion, council rent is way too low. 15% of your income isn't much and there is no way I should be able to buy a property for 50% off.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,757 ✭✭✭ Jinglejangle69




  • Registered Users Posts: 15,773 ✭✭✭✭ rob316




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,665 ✭✭✭ Fann Linn


    Does it still happen now? My brother bought his 3 bedroom semi d of the Corpo in 1988, Dublin Millennium, for the princely sum of £11,000. Sold it early 2000s and built a lovely house for himself in Kildare.

    I thought they had stopped all that messing around now that housing is in such short supply.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,889 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble




  • Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭ iguy


    I was once told by somebody who was a top officer in my local authorities housing department that it would not be fair or the done thing to uproot people from their homes, basically smaller homes weren't and won't be built on purpose and he said that would be the case for all local authorities, sure in my area the local authority bought a row of five 3/4 storey townhouses which were intended to be subdivided into 23 1 and 2 bedroom apartments for the elderly and single people(specifically for those that needed to be rehomed into smaller properties), properties were bought 7/8 years ago, and excuses are being made left right and centre, including that of accessibility issues for the elderly, even though lifts are included in the plans and due the nature and size of the site they would have a massive green area, with shelters, sensory garden, sitting areas and each property to have its own shed, and a separate building for bins, goodness knows what else, apparently now the middle house is going to be knocked and seven 3 bedroomed houses will now be built on the grounds instead, an extract from the local authorities statement says, that it make more sense in the long term, and that larger builds benefit more people, and that the new proposed development would be better value financially in the long term,

    Another example a lady(pensioner/widow) I know of in my town, renting a (originally 3 bed standard council house) 4 bedroom semi-detached, one bedroom downstairs with wet room, which she and her family part-funded when her late husband suffered from multiple strokes, afaik, she and family paid for materials and a council approved builder, etc, done the works, that was nigh on 20 years ago, husband passed away a few years back, last year or thereabouts the council informed her that the house she resides in was way beyond her needs, all 5 children have long flew the nest, the council was offering her a 2 bed new build (on land owned by the council but only built on in recent years)bungalow within the same estate, the way it was built it's more secure than her current house, she got a solicitor involved and basically on the grounds that it's her family home (52 years) and the money she put into it, I've been in the house and it's lovely, modern, etc, obvious she puts money into it, she was the first in the estate with double glazing and central heating as she and her husband paid for all that themselves, even replumbed and rewired the place a couple of years before the husband had his stroke, also a couple not years after the extension was built they paid for the house to be insulated, and they got the whole chimney redone took out the open fire, now it's some sort of wood burner that heats the place, anyway I'm rambling, long story short she won the appeal,

    One thing I always couldn't understand if they were able to afford all the upgrades with ease why did they never buy out the house, maybe they didn't envisage they could be asked to vacate the home for a smaller house, not my business at the end of the day though...



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,065 ✭✭✭ Loueze


    Some older people are willing to downsize though. I have a family member who has been trying to surrender the former family home for a smaller place for a couple of years now. All they've been told by the local authority is they have nothing smaller to offer them.

    However, there does seem to be moves in this direction now, as Cluid are building 81 apartments specifically for over 50s in Tallaght, and they are hoping (fingers crossed) that they may be offered a unit in that development, they'd be delighted with a one bed.

    The house next door to me is a two bed single storey, and was bought by the council about 5 or 6 years ago, and adapted specifically for elderly/disabled housing. My neighbour (who is 72) was 7 years on a transfer list to downsize from a 3 bed two storey on medical grounds - her husband had severe breathing issues and was on oxygen around the clock, and couldn't manage stairs.



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