Raised veg beds advice

Holy Diver

Hi all,

At the moment I have one large raised bed - 18'x9', made with old sleepers lined with DPC. The size alone makes it v awkward and half of it is taken up by rhubarb and strawberries so it is not an efficient use of space. I am planning on removing and replacing with either 3 or 4 more accessible beds (8'x3-4').

Some questions:

1) Timber choice
Im leaning towards using sleepers as it is part of a larger garden and i think they will fit in best visually. I know it is a v pricy option. Question is untreated vs treated. There is a lot of conflicting advice online. I note that quickcrop and a few others sell treated wood though. Quickcrop actually state that there is no need to line them either. Im not really convinced tbf.

2) Sides lined or not?
I think if i end up getting the treated sleepers i will definitely line with DPC. Not so sure about the untreated oak sleeper option though. Again conflicting advice as to whether lining actually makes matters better or worse regarding protecting the timber.

3) The existing admittedly v bulky sleepers are set on buried concrete blocks at each corner. Is this the best approach or is it ok just to level the ground and lay the new sleepers directly on the soil? The new sleepers wont coincide with the locations of the existing blocks so can't use those.

4) Anyone here have any experience with Enrich Pro-grow soil mix?

Thanks

scarepanda

Id go with treated timber and line it. Also check out hardware stores for sleepers, you might find them cheaper there than an online shop, and delivery might be more reliable as well. Timber is very expensive at the moment, especially for chunky timber like sleepers (I'm building a new veg garden
as well and have decided to go with 4in blocks as there's only about €200 difference in the cost including labour for block layers whenever they can come, with none of the maintenance and changing of timber beds)

You don't need to have them on blocks, but they will have two functions, 1) it'll be easier for you to level and 2) the less direct contact you have between your timber and ground the longer the timber should last, in theory anyways.

Frogeye

larch is a good choice for beds. even untreated it lasts.

Holy Diver

scarepanda wrote: »

Id go with treated timber and line it. Also check out hardware stores for sleepers, you might find them cheaper there than an online shop, and delivery might be more reliable as well. Timber is very expensive at the moment, especially for chunky timber like sleepers (I'm building a new veg garden
as well and have decided to go with 4in blocks as there's only about €200 difference in the cost including labour for block layers whenever they can come, with none of the maintenance and changing of timber beds)

You don't need to have them on blocks, but they will have two functions, 1) it'll be easier for you to level and 2) the less direct contact you have between your timber and ground the longer the timber should last, in theory anyways.

Yes - I would be sourcing the sleepers locally. They are approx €25 for the treated ones and something like €33 for untreated oak. I need 24 so it is pricy. I suppose when it's done it's done.

I know someone who runs a small organic farm and he has used blockwork for all his raised beds - swears by it.

Holy Diver

Frogeye wrote: »

larch is a good choice for beds. even untreated it lasts.

Yes - one of my local options is treated larch

scarepanda

Holy Diver wrote: »

I know someone who runs a small organic farm and he has used blockwork for all his raised beds - swears by it.

Oh! That's interesting! Do you know if they lined the inside or anything? Tbh I think I'm half mad, but I really don't want the maintenance side of things with timber and I hate digging and stooping .

Holy Diver

scarepanda wrote: »

Oh! That's interesting! Do you know if they lined the inside or anything? Tbh I think I'm half mad, but I really don't want the maintenance side of things with timber and I hate digging and stooping .

Pretty sure he didn’t line them

hirondelle

One other option is scaffolding boards- and treat them yourself. I got some seconds (the scaffolding contractors have to replace them fairly regularly) and they lasted three years- they were free to me but I think if you approach the contractors they wil let you have them for very little money.

I absolutely love the Enrich compost- if you have ok-ish soil for the beds I would get the compost and mix it through (rather than buying premixed compost and soil from them).

49801

Could you get your hands on raw straight logs. Make a rectangle with them and fill with soil. I don’t mind chemicals where it makes sense but not sure I like the idea of my veg being next to treated timbers.

Borzoi

Holy Diver wrote: »

2) Sides lined or not?
I think if i end up getting the treated sleepers i will definitely line with DPC. Not so sure about the untreated oak sleeper option though. Again conflicting advice as to whether lining actually makes matters better or worse regarding protecting the timber.

Thanks

I'm currently replacing all my raised beds. We got approx 7 years from untreated, unlined scaffold planks. Everyone of which has rotted from the back where the soil was in permanent contact.

Having read the frequently contradictory advice everything is getting lined using rolls of DPC that laps over the top of the timber, all the way down the back, and crucially under the timber with a packer to keep the timber off the plastic underneath , which will be packed with pea gravel that we use for the paths between beds. Hopefully we get 12+ years. Let you know....

Grats

Borzoi wrote: »

I'm currently replacing all my raised beds. We got approx 7 years from untreated, unlined scaffold planks. Everyone of which has rotted from the back where the soil was in permanent contact.

Having read the frequently contradictory advice everything is getting lined using rolls of DPC that laps over the top of the timber, all the way down the back, and crucially under the timber with a packer to keep the timber off the plastic underneath , which will be packed with pea gravel that we use for the paths between beds. Hopefully we get 12+ years. Let you know....

What width rolls of dpc will you use and how will you secure it to the timber?

Borzoi

Grats wrote: »

What width rolls of dpc will you use and how will you secure it to the timber?

450mm around a 225mm timber.
Staple gun

johnb25

Holy Diver wrote: »

Yes - one of my local options is treated larch

I don't think you need to treat larch. I have one in about 4 years, no sign of decay. Not treated or lined, sitting directly on the soil. 9" X 2" planks, 8' X 4'.

phormium

I have wooden raised beds, scaffolding plank type, have replaced them twice already and notice today these ones are fairly rotten too.

Because of this last year when I was organising my daughter's garden I got raised beds made with concrete blocks, one row high and I intend to put an outer facing of timber and a piece along top to pretty them up but that won't be in contact with any soil so expecting these to last!

If I was doing mine again and had the room I'd use concrete panels, not pretty but will last.

Holy Diver

johnb25 wrote: »

I don't think you need to treat larch. I have one in about 4 years, no sign of decay. Not treated or lined, sitting directly on the soil. 9" X 2" planks, 8' X 4'.

Yeah, my preference is for non-treated. Where did you get yours?

Borzoi

Borzoi wrote: »

450mm around a 225mm timber.
Staple gun

Pic

Grats

Borzoi wrote: »

Pic

Thanks for that.

johnb25

Holy Diver wrote: »

Yeah, my preference is for non-treated. Where did you get yours?

Lengths from the sawmill in Thurles, cut and assembled myself. Timber is definitely dearer now than a few years ago.
Looking at using sheets of corrugated galvanise for the next ones. Either 750mm or 1 metre wide sheets on edge. Easier on the back and I have some rubble and poor clay I can throw in the bottom.

byhookorbycrook

We redid our raised beds with blocks . The chemicals in treated timbers plus the need to replace them just got too much to deal with . The beds are now hip height, took quite a lot of filling but we built them up with lots of really , really well rotted horse manure , leaf mould and top soil. Quite a project in the short term but more than worth it in the middle to long term. As with all raised beds, they dry out a little quicker than ordinary beds , but the organic material helps keep them pretty well.

Wolftown

I've raised beds made with treated timber, it never occurred to me that the chemicals would be an issue.

Surely they don't damage the contents of the bed!?

Has anyone actually had their plants suffer due to treated timber? As in exclusively due to treated timber?

phormium

It's not that the plants will suffer and you wouldn't notice it, it's more that they may be absorbing some nasties from the chemicals used in preserving leaching into the soil.

Mimon

Are blocks not a risk? Doing research online they can leach chemicals.

Want to do raised beds, thanks for the tips on larch.

Planet X

.......about to put another two in next week when the weather settles down.
Work fine. Took two treated timber beds out as they are rotting after, I suppose about 20 years or so. (the ones on the left of the picture, corners showing, old picture)




Will replace another two, (the netted ones in pic with brassicas) this summer also bringing it to 6 galvanised steel raised beds.

Wolftown

phormium wrote: »

It's not that the plants will suffer and you wouldn't notice it, it's more that they may be absorbing some nasties from the chemicals used in preserving leaching into the soil.

Okay, that makes sense. So not really an issue unless growing edibles I'd imagine.

Grats

Borzoi wrote: »

450mm around a 225mm timber.
Staple gun

Anybody recommend a basic staple gun?

Hocus Focus

scarepanda wrote: »

Id go with treated timber and line it. Also check out hardware stores for sleepers, you might find them cheaper there than an online shop, and delivery might be more reliable as well. Timber is very expensive at the moment, especially for chunky timber like sleepers (I'm building a new veg garden
as well and have decided to go with 4in blocks as there's only about €200 difference in the cost including labour for block layers whenever they can come, with none of the maintenance and changing of timber beds)

You don't need to have them on blocks, but they will have two functions, 1) it'll be easier for you to level and 2) the less direct contact you have between your timber and ground the longer the timber should last, in theory anyways.

If you use treated timber, DPC lining and block support, your timber sides will be ; not in direct contact with the plant roots, not in contact with the ground, and the DPC lining will prevent the soil falling out at the base. Win-win,win!

looksee

You are only holding the liner in place till the soil is in to hold it, so any sort of staple gun, including the small hand operated one will work. If you want to fold the liner back and staple it away from the soil I would think of holding it down with a thin lath of wood screwed on, as the staples will eventually cut through the plastic.

amacca

Anything to be said for plastic planks?

Holy Diver

amacca wrote: »

Anything to be said for plastic planks?

I saw Hue Richards on YouTube making his beds out of plastic planks. He mentioned the supplier and I looked them up. They were a cruel price!

Hocus Focus

looksee wrote: »

You are only holding the liner in place till the soil is in to hold it, so any sort of staple gun, including the small hand operated one will work. If you want to fold the liner back and staple it away from the soil I would think of holding it down with a thin lath of wood screwed on, as the staples will eventually cut through the plastic.

Just bring the edges of the plastic up over the top and weight down with stones or similar until there is enough material in there to hold it in place. Trim with a stanley Knife when finished.

looksee

Hocus Focus wrote: »

Just bring the edges of the plastic up over the top and weight down with stones or similar until there is enough material in there to hold it in place. Trim with a stanley Knife when finished.

That is what I would usually do, but I got caught out last time as I put a load of brush/twiggy stuff in the bottom of a deep bed and of course it settled, so that the revealed fringe of plastic at the top leaned into the bed and got bits of leaf and soil behind it, so now I have to sort it out

lordgoat

Wont use treated wood but will cover untreated wood in DPC..... does not compute.


Genuinely why bother with planks. 8 beds 3-4 ft wide with wood chic mulch in between. Done.

Replace mulch every 3-4 years.

byhookorbycrook

Mimon wrote: »

Are blocks not a risk? Doing research online they can leach chemicals.

Want to do raised beds, thanks for the tips on larch.

Blocks as in cut stone , not cement .

phormium

Planet X, I love those galvanised ones! Where does one source such a thing? I was all set to go off tomorrow and buy decking to just put another layer around my disintegrating ones, it wouldn't actually be in contact with the soil for a hell of a long time but I'd love those instead!

Planet X

https://www.vidaxl.ie/e/8718475723196/vidaxl-garden-raised-bed-160x80x44-cm-galvanised-steel-silver

Did I get the last two???? :o


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJKmbmLIVNU

....have a look at this guy.....an inspiration really.

phormium

Bummer! I had actually gone through loads of that website last night looking at various options.

Hocus Focus

looksee wrote: »

That is what I would usually do, but I got caught out last time as I put a load of brush/twiggy stuff in the bottom of a deep bed and of course it settled, so that the revealed fringe of plastic at the top leaned into the bed and got bits of leaf and soil behind it, so now I have to sort it out

I have been filling some new beds and I put strong cardboard around the edges and overfilled them so that when they settle they will still be filled to the top, the cardboard will decompose.