Lets talk about bed adhesion.

Silent Running

I have an Ender 3, pretty stock.

I was having the usual issues with the stock bed that came with the machine: prints not sticking to the bed, corners lifting and warping.

I tried printing straight on to glass with limited success, then I saw some PEI sheets on e-bay and decided to give it a go. I stuck a sheet of PEI on to a plate of ordinary glass and haven't looked back. Prints stick without rafts or brims... within reason, and I never get corners lifting or warping.

The prints stick fairly solidly and when left to cool a bit, they lift straight off the build plate. Every now and then I take the plate off and give it a wash with ordinary detergent and water, and I never touch the print surface with my fingers.

Because I'm not hacking at the plate to get prints off, my bed levelling stays put for many, many prints. I can't remember when I had to level last.

So, PEI sheet on glass, for me has been fantastic.

oscarBravo

I've been lucky with adhesion straight to glass on both of my printers. It helps that they both have very good bed levelling probes, and I generally clean the glass with IPA before printing.

I definitely had good experiences with PEI with my last printer.

Padre_Pio

I picked up a free bottle of 3D LAC double grip at the TCT show a few years back. Still have loads left.
I'm fairly sure it's just hairspray in a spray bottle instead of an aerosol, but I've had zero issues with adhesion.

I have a Tevo LM and print exclusively in PLA with 60°C bed.

Dingatron

Was thinking about getting a PEI sheet for my Ender pro as some bad levelling has caused a few dents in my original magnetic sheet. Any particular brand better and any reason for the glass other than to rule out uneven bed?

Silent Running

Dingatron wrote: »

Was thinking about getting a PEI sheet for my Ender pro as some bad levelling has caused a few dents in my original magnetic sheet. Any particular brand better and any reason for the glass other than to rule out uneven bed?

It's a good flat, smooth surface and I had to stick the PEI sheet to something. So it just did the job. It's just ordinary glass that I cut to fit the bed, but it's performed very well in the heat. I've printed ABS on to it without issues.

manofthefora

Any recommendations for a particular PEI sheet?
MOTF

Leftyflip

manofthefora wrote: »

Any recommendations for a particular PEI sheet?
MOTF

I haven't seen any difference between expensive branded ones or cheap ones from Amazon or Ali-express. I've found they're all the same to me.

Silent Running

manofthefora wrote: »

Any recommendations for a particular PEI sheet?
MOTF

I got these

https://www.ebay.ie/itm/2-pack-235x235mm-PEI-Sheet-3D-Printer-Build-Surface-Adhesive-for-Ender-3/392868835883

The first pair arrived damaged in the post, just a slight blister where some heavy corner was left on it. They replaced the sheets without any hassle.

manofthefora

I have an Ender 3 Pro with a glass bedplate.
I have ongoing bed adhesion issues.
Just had a thought - what do you think?
I always set the bed temp to 55 degrees.
Since the temp is measured at the bottom of the metal bed the glass is likely far cooler.
So I am now doing a test by setting the bed to 65 degrees.
Is that likely to help? Could I go to 75 degrees?
MOTF

iLikeWaffles

manofthefora wrote: »

I have an Ender 3 Pro with a glass bedplate.
I have ongoing bed adhesion issues.
Just had a thought - what do you think?
I always set the bed temp to 55 degrees.
Since the temp is measured at the bottom of the metal bed the glass is likely far cooler.
So I am now doing a test by setting the bed to 65 degrees.
Is that likely to help? Could I go to 75 degrees?
MOTF

Any help here: https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/9g7hmp/ender_3_creality_glass_bed_not_sticking/

fenris

If you go too high on bed temp them you will start getting a deformity at the base of the print called "Elephants Foot", I would take the recommended temperatures as a recommendation as the thermistors on the printer beds are not exactly highly accurate calibrated devices, couple that with other variables in your printer setup and you can get a fair bit of variation, so all you can really say is that your printer is reporting a given bed temp in the location of the sensor, there is no guarantee that the heating is uniform across the bed, so the easiest solution is to print a few calibration cubes in various location on the bed, I tend to go from deliberately too high to too low, then split the difference, repeating as necessary to home in on the best setting for my printer, this lets you sort bed adhesion and print quality at the same time.
It is no harm to repeat the process if you get a new type of filament, even different colours from the same brand can vary by a few degrees in terms of optimum temperature, the main thing is to not change more than one parameter at a time (yep I know that we all say that and ignore it).

smoochie06

manofthefora wrote: »

I have an Ender 3 Pro with a glass bedplate.
I have ongoing bed adhesion issues.
Just had a thought - what do you think?
I always set the bed temp to 55 degrees.
Since the temp is measured at the bottom of the metal bed the glass is likely far cooler.
So I am now doing a test by setting the bed to 65 degrees.
Is that likely to help? Could I go to 75 degrees?
MOTF

Hi MOTF
Did you take off the magnetic sheet that is underneath the top plate as done here .https://youtu.be/d0uxk5LgEOM
I use isopropyl alcohol to clean the glass bed before each print and it does the trick for me.
Hope this helps

manofthefora

smoochie06 wrote: »

Hi MOTF
Did you take off the magnetic sheet that is underneath the top plate as done here .https://youtu.be/d0uxk5LgEOM
I use isopropyl alcohol to clean the glass bed before each print and it does the trick for me.
Hope this helps

AARRRGGH!! No, I didn't. It's in place for a few months.

And now it's stuck hard to the glass bed. Too late. :eek:

I'll look at the parameters that relate to the initial layer in the slicer.
Thicker layer, slower, hotter etc as suggested in the other posts.
Plus of course, yet again, check it's level.
MOTF

iLikeWaffles

How much adhesion is too much? Have only done a few prints and I am wiping the bed of the Ender 3 (stock) with IPA after each print which I read is a good idea, removes left over filament and debris and provides more adhesion for next print. The scrapper that came with is marking the bed and is a little too stiff for my liking. Over time the bed will require replacement but I might look into a glass bed anyway. Would using a more flexible scrapper work better? Also are there better solutions to removing a print, for instance printing tabs that can be gripped and using this in conjunction with a scrapper. Thinking maybe just remove the bed with the print on board and roll it to remove a print would be the easiest but that is more maintenance than its worth.

Silent Running

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

How much adhesion is too much? Have only done a few prints and I am wiping the bed of the Ender 3 (stock) with IPA after each print which I read is a good idea, removes left over filament and debris and provides more adhesion for next print. The scrapper that came with is marking the bed and is a little too stiff for my liking. Over time the bed will require replacement but I might look into a glass bed anyway. Would using a more flexible scrapper work better? Also are there better solutions to removing a print, for instance printing tabs that can be gripped and using this in conjunction with a scrapper. Thinking maybe just remove the bed with the print on board and roll it to remove a print would be the easiest but that is more maintenance than its worth.

The first thing I did was to replace the scraper with an old, flexible and sharp putty knife. But I haven't used it for ages with my current bed.

oscarBravo

If at all possible, leave the bed to cool completely before removing the print. I find that most prints pop off quite easily without the use of tools once the bed has cooled.

iLikeWaffles

Have been thinking of getting a battery powered tyre inflator. Not just for 3d printing mind you be great for PC maintenance and its indented use also.

Basically environmental friendly compressed air. If you can get a corner lifted the rest comes easy enough, will definitely replace that scrapper!

Masking tape for the very cheap win.
Currently printing

iLikeWaffles

Deleted User wrote: »

Masking tape for the very cheap win.
Currently printing

Looks like it is not sticking to the masking tape? :eek:

iLikeWaffles

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Looks like it is not sticking to the masking tape? :eek:

Nope, worked perfectly, I think that you are seeing a shadow there as it did not lift. Had to print 4 of those beams today (yes I should have done a X4 slice but forgot and could not be bothered going back)


The bed heats the tape enough to have the tape lift, from time to time, but the initial adhesion at the nozzle is perfect and it's the base layer which is most important.


The tape can just be gently smoothed back onto the bed if needed but I've never needed to, except just at the last few moments of the extruder heating.

Padre_Pio

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Basically environmental friendly compressed air. If you can get a corner lifted the rest comes easy enough, will definitely replace that scrapper!

I have three 120mm fans hooked up to blow air on the print and bed when its finished. Little script turns them on at the end of a print, and off when the temperature drops below 35 degrees.

iLikeWaffles

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I have three 120mm fans hooked up to blow air on the print and bed when its finished. Little script turns them on at the end of a print, and off when the temperature drops below 35 degrees.

Feel free to share...
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058173734

fenris

Pop the warm bed with the print on it into the fridge?
it is the different contraction in both bed and print caused by the difference in cooling rates that makes it pop off, I have only had to do that with glass a few times

iLikeWaffles

fenris wrote: »

Pop the warm bed with the print on it into the fridge?
it is the different contraction in both bed and print caused by the difference in cooling rates that makes it pop off, I have only had to do that with glass a few times

Better still have a mini fridge beside the printer one shelf for prints/bed, one for beer or cold drinks or a nice salad

Doge

I use this "sweet" method for bed adhesion!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72DMNEGhyhk

Yes, sugar disolved in water! 2 things you'll find in almost any Irish household.

The smell of hairspray was a big turn off for me when the bed heats up.

Youll need a decent cloth with water to wipe it off but i find it great.

Poly

My experiences with an Ender and a home built yoke

I print on a piece of regular glass (I cut it to size with a glass cutter or get your local glazer to it it for you, mind the sharp edges!).
Coat it with a thin layer of Pritt stick, never had any issues.

You can buy borosilicate glass online but I never bothered.

Material PLA

I always manually level before each print using paper, go around twice because each corner upsets it's opposite corner, one you get the hang of it, you can do it 2mins

Bed temp - 60C initially and drop to 58 after the initial layer, I find the glass takes a little longer to heat through so I set my preheat temp to 65-68C

I usually add a 8-10 rings of a Brim, after printing if it the part doesn't pop off easily, pop it in the freezer for 10 mins and it should just pop.

iLikeWaffles

What about honey?

Doge

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

What about honey?

Haha! More expensive and imagine how sticky it would be!


I forgot to mention you need a glass bed for the sweet solution.


I've have never actually used the stock magnetic bed that came with my ender 3, always used glass.

Huawei Gallagher

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

Looks like it is not sticking to the masking tape? :eek:

Get yourself some 3M Blue painters tape CorkExile, it is better than any other masking tape for this, standard Irish yellow tape also has a waxy finish which I do not like. and it lifts off the bed along the edges too (like yours is doing). Combine it with a coating of l'oreal elnet hairspray for good adhesion if you are going down this route. Tried cheapo tape and cheapo hairspray but didn't work.

I have moved on to a glass bed with nothing on it, just cleaned with alcohol between every print.