Why a vehicle might be exempt from road tax and would it have a log book?

westernfringe

Hi folks, I recently purchased a van from a dealer. A long story but I didn't see any log book prior to purchase. I didn't then receive a log book in the post but the RF 100 form (for new/imported vehicles). The person I talked to in the motor tax office insist that this is because the vehicle is imported. Also because of this, to tax it now I must go get it weighed. The van is 2016 and the RF100 form states that first registration in the state was 2016. The dealer says it was not imported. The motorcheck.ie report says it was not imported. The speedo is Km (though digital). Right hand drive. The dealer was brief and told me that for some reason the van was exempt from road tax. He said perhaps a disability vehicle and that it why it has no log book. The motor tax office insist that even if exempt from road tax it would have a log book? Would anyone know if vehicles exempt from motor tax have a log book? It would seem unlikely that a non-adapted standard panel van would be part of the disability scheme? If anyone had any insight or theories it would be much appreciated. thanks!

CiniO

Yes, motortax exempt vehicles do have logbooks.

westernfringe

Thanks! I guess then would anyone know any reason why a seemingly non-imported 2017 van would have never been taxed and have no log book ever issued? The motorcheck.ie report does say that it has been through a number of CVRT tests though I can't follow the owner history data from the report.

Atlantic Dawn

I know there's a procedure where on a normal vehicle when importing and you pay the VRT you don't get issued the logbook until you first pay motor tax on it.

Perhaps there's some special procedure if it's an imported tax exempt vehicle?

Casati

westernfringe wrote: »

Thanks! I guess then would anyone know any reason why a seemingly non-imported 2017 van would have never been taxed and have no log book ever issued? The motorcheck.ie report does say that it has been through a number of CVRT tests though I can't follow the owner history data from the report.

Was it an ex Garda van?

colm_mcm

I wonder if it’s ever been taxed?

The dealer is also lying to, or misleading you.

westernfringe

It's never been taxed and has never had a logbook issued

colm_mcm

westernfringe wrote: »

It's never been taxed and has never had a logbook issued

You just need to tax it then as a new owner would. Easy peasy.

I’d wonder what sort of owner buys a van and doesn’t tax or CVRT it for a few years.

westernfringe

Thanks! Well according to motorcheck it has been through a few CVRT's. I do have to go get it weighed also now though to tax it. Would just like to have an idea of how this may have come about

colm_mcm

Are you VAT registered?

westernfringe

No I'm not. Is that relevant?

colm_mcm

westernfringe wrote: »

No I'm not. Is that relevant?

If there was no VAT receipt available on the van it might point towards a non commercial previous owner who might have had issues commercially taxing it.

westernfringe

There was no VAT receipt available. I don't fully follow? You mean that they never taxed it, never got a log book and drove it around for 4 years? With no log book then and I'm wondering how it was possible to CVRT it without logbook?

Odyssey 2005

Tax exempt vehicles are still taxed. I bought many tax exempt vehicles and have gotten a book for them all.
The dealer isn't exactly being straight here

colm_mcm

What model van is it?

westernfringe

Trafic Sport

Casati

westernfringe wrote: »

Trafic Sport

Is it a crew cab? Could have been bought vat and vat free, and registered under primary medical cert and would show as tax exempt on reg checking sites. The non availability of log book could be down to fact that it isn't allowed to be sold yet without some of the VRT/ Vat due to revenue. If its a standard van however I wouldn't think it would have been bought with a primary medical cert. Traffic Sport is also unlikely to be Garda or Defense Forces owned.

westernfringe

Its not a crew cab.

colm_mcm

If it’s never been taxed and you put the reg and last 6 digits of the chassis number into motortax.ie it will probably have the original owners details preloaded.

westernfringe

Couldnt quite see how to do this? Just seems to have my details listed

westernfringe

Did a cartell reports now also.It has the original owner listed as a 'Company". Motor check didnt have this info

ratracer

Was it used in an airport, or some such site where it would be exempt, as it wouldn’t need to drive on a public road?

westernfringe

Hmm? Wasnt aware of airport exemption? I imagine the milage would be super low then? or maybe not?

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote: »

You just need to tax it then as a new owner would. Easy peasy.

I’d wonder what sort of owner buys a van and doesn’t tax or CVRT it for a few years.

Culturally speaking, it's hard to know. :pac:

ratracer

westernfringe wrote: »

Hmm? Wasnt aware of airport exemption? I imagine the milage would be super low then? or maybe not?

I could be wrong, but I seem to remember that vehicles that are strictly used airside only didn’t need to be registered or taxed.
If it’s being used a couple of hours a day, even in a small area, the Km’s would add up.

colm_mcm

Wouldn’t see a fleet speccing a Sport spec.

Odyssey 2005

westernfringe wrote: »

Hmm? Wasnt aware of airport exemption? I imagine the milage would be super low then? or maybe not?

There is no exemption,their just not registered if they are solely kept airside.

westernfringe

Genuinely thanks folks for taking the time to input so far

westernfringe

So airport vehicles aren't taxed or registered?

Odyssey 2005

westernfringe wrote: »

Genuinely thanks folks for taking the time to input so far

Still sounds like the dealer is hiding something.

westernfringe

It would be unlikely though that they would be using sport model panel vans though in the airport?

Odyssey 2005

westernfringe wrote: »

So airport vehicles aren't taxed or registered?

Not the ones used solely airside. Knew of a transporter,very high spec (crew cab) used by an aviation co that was years and years old that was never registered.

bazz26

Surely if it has a reg number then it was registered at some point? The OP hardly bought an Irish van that had no reg number on it?

westernfringe

Yep has a reg. But according to motor tax office. Never taxed and never had a logbook. The tax office said this is because it must be imported. Motorcheck and cartell say not imported. I didn't receive a logbook in the post. Instead an RF100 form to use to tax it. This RF100 has the first date of registration in ireland on it and that matches the reg year. Reg check sites say the same. Cant figure out whats going on!

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote: »

Surely if it has a reg number then it was registered at some point? The OP hardly bought an Irish van that had no reg number on it?

You get the registration number before you tax it or get a VRC

Odyssey 2005

westernfringe wrote: »

Yep has a reg. But according to motor tax office. Never taxed and never had a logbook. The tax office said this is because it must be imported. Motorcheck and cartell say not imported. I didn't receive a logbook in the post. Instead an RF100 form to use to tax it. This RF100 has the first date of registration in ireland on it and that matches the reg year. Reg check sites say the same. Cant figure out whats going on!

Where did the dealer get it ?

westernfringe

From another dealer he said. Reg checks say same.

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote: »

You get the registration number before you tax it or get a VRC

Yeah I know, it was just to clarify to the previous poster that it had to be registered at some point irrespective of it never having a logbook issued.

I cannot imagine it being an airport vehicle to be honest. It would have been registered properly and logbook issued to either the company or state agency that bought it. Any company being involved with state bodies would have to be compliant in matters like that. God only knows how many undocumented owners it potentially has passed through since day 1.

westernfringe

bazz26 wrote: »

Yeah I know, it was just to clarify to the previous poster that it had to be registered at some point irrespective of it never having a logbook issued.

I cannot imagine it being an airport vehicle to be honest. It would have been registered properly and logbook issued to either the company or state agency that bought it. Any company being involved with state bodies would have to be compliant in matters like that. God only knows how many undocumented owners it potentially has passed through since day 1.

I'm not sure if that sounds likely? That would mean multiple owners all not wishing to tax it and drive it around without tax?

Isambard

Bizarre that it's been CVRTd but never taxed. Why would you do one and not the other?

Presumably even so-called exempt vehicles actually get a zero tax disc.

just to re-iterate, the RF 100 is so that you can tax it, once done the taxbook will be issued.

Other thoughts...Island use? but then you wouldn't need CVRT
Ambulance or undertakers vehicle? Surely they still have discs issued.

athlone573

Drug dealer / CAB seizure, maybe they are hiding something?

bazz26

westernfringe wrote: »

I'm not sure if that sounds likely? That would mean multiple owners all not wishing to tax it and drive it around without tax?

You should check out the Garda traffic corp twitter feed and see some of the vehicles impounded for having no tax, some of them have had no tax for x number of years so they got away with it and only got caught eventually because of more checkpoints during Covid lockdown.

It's only a theory though as nobody knows for sure but it's very difficult to come up with a legitimate reason as to how it is what it is. With no record of ownership due to never having a logbook there is no way to know how many owners its had up to now.

newmember2

I think airside looks the most likely? Do commercials not need a CVRT in all cases?

westernfringe

Yeah Airside is all I can think it might be? And yeah my understanding is you need a log book to CVRT and according to checks it has been through CVRT's! No idea!!

westernfringe

I have submitted the paperwork to have it taxed, and now wondering/concerned that I may get hit with some sort of VRT bill when they go to issue logbook? Is this possible even if vehicle wasn't imported? If it has an irish reg plate, which it does, I presume that means that there would be no VRT due as already paid?

Del2005

Could it have been used on a trade plate? Hence why it was never taxed but has been through CVRT. I know that there are restrictions on how trade plates can be used but as with all laws in this country they are rarely enforced.

Back in the good old days of cars having "For Reg" for a few years I know someone who ran a vehicle on trade plates for years without registering it.

tphase

tphase wrote: »

you may be asked for a logbook for the CVRT but one of my colleagues has tested his van for the past 4 years and never been asked to produce it.

OP, it could be an airside vehicle though I'd expect it would be kept for more than 4 years before moving it on. Vehicles will experience a lot less wear and tear in an airport than Irish roads so they last longer
Also, I'm not sure but I don't think airside vehicles have to be registered. From a customs/revenue perspective, airside is outside the state so if it has a reg plate, then I'd be more inclined to it being a state-owned vehicle.
Vehicles owned by some state agencies (eg an Garda Siochana, Met Eireann) are tax exempt but would still need to be tested. They do have a tax disc (€0) though that was only brought in a few years ago

Yeah all I’ve ever had to show when getting numerous vans tested has been a licence, never a logbook.

westernfringe

tphase wrote: »

you may be asked for a logbook for the CVRT but one of my colleagues has tested his van for the past 4 years and never been asked to produce it.

OP, it could be an airside vehicle though I'd expect it would be kept for more than 4 years before moving it on. Vehicles will experience a lot less wear and tear in an airport than Irish roads so they last longer
Also, I'm not sure but I don't think airside vehicles have to be registered. From a customs/revenue perspective, airside is outside the state so if it has a reg plate, then I'd be more inclined to it being a state-owned vehicle.
Vehicles owned by some state agencies (eg an Garda Siochana, Met Eireann) are tax exempt but would still need to be tested. They do have a tax disc (€0) though that was only brought in a few years ago

My apologies , this post made me realise I made a typo in an earlier post. Its a 2016 van! It appears the owner sold it after 59 months. It had a 60 month warranty. While it does appear to have gone through CVRT's, they weren't done every exactly 12 months, always a bit overdue

colm_mcm

Probably doing a short prison stretch when CVRT was due. No biggie.