Intel Investment masks an Irish industrial failure

Fred Cryton

It is of course great news about the new investment from Intel in Ireland. They currently employ 5,000 here. However let's compare with Israel.



There, the company employs 12,000 in total. They also have around 5,000 in a large chip manufacturing facility. However, they have 7,000 additional people in Israel working in R&D roles, which are the higher paying value added roles.



Whats' going on? Intel has been in Ireland for 30+ years. What a failure by the IDA and our education system that we couldn't get even a fraction of that over here.

Wanderer78

Hard to know, maybe intel are in too deep here, in regards investment in manufacturing, I'd say it's astonishingly expensive to setup such a manufacturing facility, now they just have to keep it that way

Voltex

I'm not sure we could call what's happening on the Leixlip site a "failure".

It could be one of the largest single building projects happening in Ireland right now...maybe with the exception of the NCH.

Wanderer78

Voltex wrote:

I'm not sure we could call what's happening on the Leixlip site a "failure".

It is a very risky strategy though, for both the company and the state

Fred Cryton

Voltex wrote: »

I'm not sure we could call what's happening on the Leixlip site a "failure".

It could be one of the largest single building projects happening in Ireland right now...maybe with the exception of the NCH.

Read the OP post again.



Nowhere did i call the new plant a failure. What is a failure is that we did not attract any of the higher value (and higher paying) R&D roles, as Israel managed to attract over 7,000 such roles.

Wanderer78

Fred Cryton wrote:

Nowhere did i call the new plant a failure. What is a failure is that we did not attract any of the higher value (and higher paying) R&D roles, as Israel managed to attract over 7,000 such roles.

Our corporation policy has always been truly about facilitating and attracting manufacturing operations which has suited corporations very well, add in the low rate, and you have a win win for them. we think we 're being smart by maintaining the status quo, but it's starting to back fire now, there's growing tense over our rate, and as you say, the very high quality jobs are going else where, even though I'm sure many are reasonably well paid here, but I'm sure worked to the bone, and treated like sh1t, as I've been told.

Tea drinker

Voltex wrote: »

I'm not sure we could call what's happening on the Leixlip site a "failure".

It could be one of the largest single building projects happening in Ireland right now...maybe with the exception of the NCH.

Well the NCH is arguably a failure based on cost and building it in the wrong place.

I *guess* Intel is investing more in R+D in Israel as there are many other high tech companies in Israel for those R+D to coordinate with, in Telecomms and of course a long established and massive, subsidised defence industry.
The R+D in Israel have customers we won't have? The HP manufacturing plant was pretty extensive nearby intel and may have had some need for small chips but the Dell and Gateway are long. Analog in Limerick maybe were some draw.
Ericsson no longer manufacture here, although I think there's still some r+D in Athlone, Nokia have AFAIK small branch office, and Ireland, in terms of defence spending... have we paid the deafness claims etc? Lads leaving DF as pay too low... actually paying to leave.
Most of what we do here has been software based for 30 years. Intel still being here and spending... I guess it's a success, is it as successful as it could be?
Serial planning objector Mr R**d is hardly helping that. IIRC planning a plant was started in Norway same time as Leixlip... it was built and we were still but-but about planning.

PommieBast

Tea drinker wrote: »

Serial planning objector Mr R**d is hardly helping that. IIRC planning a plant was started in Norway same time as Leixlip... it was built and we were still but-but about planning.

I worked at the Leixlip site a few years ago and the dining hall talk was that the absense of ready-to-go planning permission crippling the plant's future prospects. Think Leixlip only got the go-ahead for the latest expansion because it was the main site for 14nm which kept Intel in profit while the screw-up over 10nm was unfolding elsewhere.


Lot of Irish R&D is over in Shannon and everyone was amazed at how such a small site survived the 2016 ACT rationalisations.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Our corporation policy has always been truly about facilitating and attracting manufacturing operations which has suited corporations very well, add in the low rate, and you have a win win for them. we think we 're being smart by maintaining the status quo, but it's starting to back fire now, there's growing tense over our rate, and as you say, the very high quality jobs are going else where, even though I'm sure many are reasonably well paid here, but I'm sure worked to the bone, and treated like sh1t, as I've been told.

Other companies do R&D here. The possibility is that Ireland’s tech scene will disintegrate eventually but it’s probably a generation away. Brexit actually helps.

timmyntc

There is similar R&D in Intel Ireland but at a much smaller scale - the reality is Irish companies rely extensively on attracting foreign workers to fill a lot of these R&D roles and its quite difficult to recruit abroad at that kind of scale.

Other countries like Israel, US, India etc all have far more people to choose from, or a greater emphasis on the skills necessary for those fields in the education system. Silicon manufacturing or design has very few graduates nationwide in this country - the 3rd level education system in particular is very poor compared to whats on offer abroad (with respect to chip design/materials science)

zom

I read few months ago interesting analysis about engineering not being good career path anymore in modern economy. There were few valid points in it and I will try to find link and post it here.