Global Home Structural Guarantee - Attic conversion

badger54

Hello all, have a question related to the Global Home Structural Guarantte and the effect of doing an attic conversion on the guarantee.

I am purchasing a new build. The developer wanted 40k to convert the attic, which I thought (having discussed with a local builder who quoted me 20-25k) was too high. The developer said it would cost me 8k to have attic future proofed for conversion. Including work on roof trusses, fire doors, insulation etc. Again, the builder I consulted said this was too high a price and advised me to proceed without having that work done. Which I did.

I am now moving towards contract signing on the house and have been advised that if I have an attic conversion done it will "negate" the Global Home Structural Guarantee. It is now too late to have the attic future proofed. (I was not aware that further attic conversion would negate Guarantee when I initially made the decision not to have develop future proof attic).

Apparently, the roof trusses are prefabricated to certain weight bearing standards and they cannot be changed.

My questions -
1. Is it the case that a newly built four bed semi could not have attic converted due to roof trusses?

2. Would completing such work (if possible) negate the Global Home Structural Guarantee?


Hope someone can help. As I had always planned to have attic converted within months of moving in, but concerned now that I can't do this.

BryanF

And the builder is who to you? Is the builder standing over the quote? Certified upon completion? If the developer gives you a price assume it includes a % profit and % for not wanting to do it, BUT those % equate to the hassle of you sourcing an independent eng, tendering, hiring builder, paying for the ‘gaps’ not covered in the price, and months of headaches before it’s finished.

Regarding 25k v 40k recommend you get independent advice: Ie a QS

1. Yes. Typically Pre-fab trusses are not designed for conversion. If you’re definitely putting a room the attic, get the roof modified and certified day one.

2. Typically yes. It’s like buying a new car, and then making it a cabriolet, and then the expecting the manufacturer to stand over its repair.

Edit: I don’t know anything about that guarantee, I haven’t great faith in such guarantees in Ireland as seen with the pyrite scandal.

badger54

BryanF wrote: »

And the builder is who to you? Is the builder standing over the quote? Certified upon completion? If the developer gives you a price assume it includes a % profit and % for not wanting to do it, BUT those % equate to the hassle of you sourcing an independent eng, tendering, hiring builder, paying for the ‘gaps’ not covered in the price, and months of headaches before it’s finished.

Regarding 25k v 40k recommend you get independent advice: Ie a QS

1. Yes. Typically Pre-fab trusses are not designed for conversion. If you’re definitely putting a room the attic, get the roof modified and certified day one.

2. Typically yes. It’s like buying a new car, and then making it a cabriolet, and then the expecting the manufacturer to stand over its repair.

Edit: I don’t know anything about that guarantee, I haven’t great faith in such guarantees in Ireland as seen with the pyrite scandal.

Thank you. Builder (who quoted me 25k is no one to me. He provided advice at the time, I havent spoken to him since. I relied on his judgement, perhaps naively. It never occurred to me, nor was it explained to me, that I wouldnt be able to have attic converted myself after I buy house. I wasnt told roof trusses would preclude another builder from doing the work. And/Or that such work would negate Structural Guarantee.

The builder I spoke to was confident that the developer's quoted price was at least 25% too high, that the future proof price of 8k was at least 4k too high. That he couldn't have given such a quote himself in good faith. He didn't have sight of the plans and gave rough quote based on typical 4 bed semi design.

BryanF

It’s in the builders interest to claim the develop price is too high. 25% sounds about right tbh

But read my post again re hassle v developer profit..

badger54

BryanF wrote: »

It’s in the builders interest to claim the develop price is too high. 25% sounds about right tbh

But read my post again re hassle v developer profit..

In hindishgt, perhaps I should have just paid the 40k. I honestly thought I'd get it for 20-25k down the line, maybe 5k more with certifications etc. So, i'd rather pay 30k than 40k.

Didn't realise it would void Structural Guarantee.

Though, having spoekn to a few people, I'm not sure that guarantee is worth much. Might just wait 2 or 3 years, watch out for subsidence or other structural issues until then, and maybe at that point proceed with attic conversion.

BryanF

Best of luck. Please come back and confirm what it costs to get a habitable attic conversion compliant/signed-off with building reg

Metric Tensor

The trusses have to be designed and manufactured in a totally different way to support a room inside them than if they are just support a roof. Quite serious intervention will now be required to the roof structure to make it suitable for a room. If you half-ass it now when you go to sell in future a surveyor working for a purchaser will spot it a mile away. Would obviously have been cheaper to buy these trusses at the time rather than go butchering the existing ones now and putting in steel, etc. (designed by your engineer) to make up for the butchery!

Also - did you check with your "builder" that his guesstimate included upgrading the fire alarm and replacing all the relevant downstairs doors with fire doors? That mandatory requirement often tends to get "overlooked" when you ask for attic conversion quotes.

Other things to bear in mind are ventilation - if you have a mechanical system it needs to be extended up there. Fire escape windows depending on what goes up there. If your attic water tank is up there it will have to be moved, etc. etc.

Negating your guarantee is only part of the challenges that you will face. But it makes sense that you won't be covered any more because you have altered the structure that they guarateed.

badger54

Metric Tensor wrote: »

The trusses have to be designed and manufactured in a totally different way to support a room inside them than if they are just support a roof. Quite serious intervention will now be required to the roof structure to make it suitable for a room. If you half-ass it now when you go to sell in future a surveyor working for a purchaser will spot it a mile away. Would obviously have been cheaper to buy these trusses at the time rather than go butchering the existing ones now and putting in steel, etc. (designed by your engineer) to make up for the butchery!

Also - did you check with your "builder" that his guesstimate included upgrading the fire alarm and replacing all the relevant downstairs doors with fire doors? That mandatory requirement often tends to get "overlooked" when you ask for attic conversion quotes.

Other things to bear in mind are ventilation - if you have a mechanical system it needs to be extended up there. Fire escape windows depending on what goes up there. If your attic water tank is up there it will have to be moved, etc. etc.

Negating your guarantee is only part of the challenges that you will face. But it makes sense that you won't be covered any more because you have altered the structure that they guarateed.

The "builder" is very reputable. I can assure you. He kindly provided his best advice and I'm not sure why you have appear to have made a negative assumption.

The developer was a nightmare to deal with on the attic issue. Explained nothing, provided only terse responses. Refused to discuss or explain matter. It was in that context that I opted to trust the builder that I spoke with. Even still, I think it may work out cheaper in the long run. Albeit I will have to wait 2 to 3 years and will undoubtedly have more headaches.

Metric Tensor

badger54 wrote: »

The "builder" is very reputable. I can assure you. He kindly provided his best advice and I'm not sure why you have appear to have made a negative assumption.

No insult meant to either you or your builder. If any narkiness came across it's because the majority of attic conversions I see are non compliant due to homeowners and builders just having a go at it without any heed for building regulations! The fact that you've come here to even check is a good start!!

The developer was a nightmare to deal with on the attic issue. Explained nothing, provided only terse responses. Refused to discuss or explain matter. It was in that context that I opted to trust the builder that I spoke with. Even still, I think it may work out cheaper in the long run. Albeit I will have to wait 2 to 3 years and will undoubtedly have more headaches.

Many developers are not interested in bespoke services or modifying their product. The profit margin is linked to being able to copy and paste the exact same thing from house to house. So if they are offering to have it "conversion ready" then you can be sure it's at a profit for them as you've pointed out. However, because they have to provide you with a compliant dwelling (and have professionals certifying this) they have no choice but to do it right. The same can not be said for many attic conversions that are completed across the country.

I honestly don't think you'll get it for 25 unless you happen to have a house that's ideal for it already.

badger54

Metric Tensor wrote: »

No insult meant to either you or your builder. If any narkiness came across it's because the majority of attic conversions I see are non compliant due to homeowners and builders just having a go at it without any heed for building regulations! The fact that you've come here to even check is a good start!!




Many developers are not interested in bespoke services or modifying their product. The profit margin is linked to being able to copy and paste the exact same thing from house to house. So if they are offering to have it "conversion ready" then you can be sure it's at a profit for them as you've pointed out. However, because they have to provide you with a compliant dwelling (and have professionals certifying this) they have no choice but to do it right. The same can not be said for many attic conversions that are completed across the country.

I honestly don't think you'll get it for 25 unless you happen to have a house that's ideal for it already.

Thank you. Your advice really is appreciated.

I suspect you are correct. But, if it ends up costing me 30 to 35 all in (certified etc) then I'm happy at that.

I'm going to ask the developer to provide fire doors (at my expense) rather than standard doors. Makes no sense for me to have normal doors installed only to have to replace them in 2 or 3 years when I proceed with conversion myself.