Washing Machine Filling Times

John.G

I have two bog standard Zanussi washing machines, one is a 2006 install, the other 2013, both working perfectly. Both are cold fill only.
Both are CWST filled but recently was doing slight plumbing mods and connected them temporarily to mains fill for a few days.
I took a few fill times off both.

2006 Machine, CWST Fill: Pre main filltime 49 secs. main filltime 210 secs
2006 Machine, Mains Fill: Pre main filltime 24 secs. main filltime 90 secs

2013 Machine, CWST Fill: Pre main filltime 35 secs. main filltime 85 secs
2013 Machine, Mains Fill: Pre main filltime 35 secs. main filltime 85 secs

The 2006 machine seems to use a pressure switch to measure the fill level but if you load up the machine with clothes it makes no difference whatsoever to the fill times in both cases, one might expect the main filling time to be extended as the clothes must soak up a fair volume of water leaving less in the drum to activate the pressure switch.

Don't know what the 2013 machine uses as it doesn't differentiate for any of the above be it CWST/Mains fill or/and clothes fill.

Both machines will interrupt the cycle if the water is turned off and resume when the water is restored.
Whatever about the clothes loading having no effect on both machines I wonder is the 2013 machine designed for mains fill only.

The Red Ace

you need a minimum of .5 bar and max of 8 bar pressure on the washers to fill, storage tank fill will depend on height whether it is single or two storey or higher, when pressure is at a minimum it tends to leave detergent in the soap box. the water level on older machines had a high and low level on the pressure switch to differentiate between wool type washes which had a higher level, later machines use a resistance pcb. if pressure is at the lower end by removing the solenoid filter you will see a rubber washer further in, by removing this and the plastic support it will give a better free flow. All washers have a predetermined water level but as the drum rotates and clothes soak up water the machine will keep topping up.

John.G

Thanks but 'fraid not in both cases re clothes soaking up water which I find quite strange in the older machine as it does determine the fill level when using the mains vs the CWST as it takes twice as long for both premain fill & the mainfill (mains Pressure is ~ 4 times the CWST pressure and flow is prop to sqroot of pressure) but if you fill it with a wash load the fill time does not extend ie it is 49/210(CWST or 24/90(mains) secs, clothes or no clothes.
The newer machine doesn't differentiate between any form of fill pressure even though I am reliably told that the clothes are washed fine.
The CWST water level is ~ 4.5/5M above the machines.

Just reading a few threads there re UK machines and it seems most of the newer ones (especially for top of the range) are made for mains fill only. I wonder how many people around here are using the CWST as the fill source.

The Red Ace

Having worked on machines from Miele to the cheapest washers for decades I cant agree with your theory on water levels in machines whether washing with a load or empty, As long as wash load is coming out clean for you it is the main point. Not so easy to determine on a keyboard your issues without seeing the set up. Try filling the wm with a load and also empty, let it the wash for a few minutes and then bring it to spin and then measure both volumes of water, I dont think you will find them the same unless the machine is syphoning.

John.G

Old machine, Zanussi Aquacycle Essential 6kg/1200RPM. Model ZWF1221G. (Installed 2006)
Exactly the same results for CWST&mains fill.......
No clothes, wash/spin, 16 ltrs measured pump out.
With clothes, wash/spin, 12 ltrs measured pump out.
Fill times exactly same with/without clothes.
So whether correct or not no allowance is made for the clothes soakage. But not overly worried re this.

New machine. 6kg/1400RPM Model ZWG 6141P. (Installed 2013)
This machine relies purely on a timed fill so apparantly big disparity between CWST and mains fill volumes?.. It does state that head required is 0.5/8 bar so can't figure out why it doesn't extend the fill time while on CWST like the old machine.
I did contact Zanussi when I installed it as I did notice that the fill time was only "1/2" that of the old machine on CWST filling but wasn't offered any words of wisdom.
Wasn't able to measure pump out volumes as waste pipe too inaccessible just now.

John.G

The Red Ace wrote: »

Having worked on machines from Miele to the cheapest washers for decades I cant agree with your theory on water levels in machines whether washing with a load or empty, As long as wash load is coming out clean for you it is the main point. Not so easy to determine on a keyboard your issues without seeing the set up. Try filling the wm with a load and also empty, let it the wash for a few minutes and then bring it to spin and then measure both volumes of water, I dont think you will find them the same unless the machine is syphoning.

Finally got at the standpipe and measured the drain volumes from empty drum fill.
CWST, fill time 126 secs, water volume 5.8 Litres.
Mains, fill time 126 secs, water volume 14.4 Litres.

Will remove the top sometime and inspect the pressure switch and clean out attached hose and depending on what I find, maybe buy a new pressure switch. Will use this machine with mains fill only for the moment.

John.G

The Red Ace wrote: »

Having worked on machines from Miele to the cheapest washers for decades I cant agree with your theory on water levels in machines whether washing with a load or empty, As long as wash load is coming out clean for you it is the main point. Not so easy to determine on a keyboard your issues without seeing the set up. Try filling the wm with a load and also empty, let it the wash for a few minutes and then bring it to spin and then measure both volumes of water, I dont think you will find them the same unless the machine is syphoning.

Took the lid off and the level sensor is a 545-AA-006 with a 3 pin connecter where
1 is 5V.
2 is GRD (ground)
3 is out
With connector block removed I get 0V on 1, -5V on 2, and -5v on 3.
With pin connector block reattached to level sensor (and back probing) I get 0V on 1, -5v on 2, and -2.6V on 3, these readings are exactly the same for empty or full drum but can't measure the pulses with my M.meter.
The sensing tube is clear when i blow through it and if I fill the machine with it unattached to the sensor the machine will (over) fill for 5 mins, then shut down and ditto if fill valve shut before filling so safety aspect seems OK and as I said wash perfectly OK on mains fill but so so on CWST and it has been this way from day 1.
In your opinion, should I have 5V on pin 1 and is a minus reading correct on the other two pins?.

If looking at the link, if you open it and close it, then reopen it, it gives a interesting (to me anyway) view of how these sensors work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-0KGbd91_I

The Red Ace

John.G wrote: »

Took the lid off and the level sensor is a 545-AA-006 with a 3 pin connecter where
1 is 5V.
2 is GRD (ground)
3 is out
With connector block removed I get 0V on 1, -5V on 2, and -5v on 3.
With pin connector block reattached to level sensor (and back probing) I get 0V on 1, -5v on 2, and -2.6V on 3, these readings are exactly the same for empty or full drum but can't measure the pulses with my M.meter.
The sensing tube is clear when i blow through it and if I fill the machine with it unattached to the sensor the machine will (over) fill for 5 mins, then shut down and ditto if fill valve shut before filling so safety aspect seems OK and as I said wash perfectly OK on mains fill but so so on CWST and it has been this way from day 1.
In your opinion, should I have 5V on pin 1 and is a minus reading correct on the other two pins?.

If looking at the link, if you open it and close it, then reopen it, it gives a interesting (to me anyway) view of how these sensors work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-0KGbd91_I

without seeing the washing machine it may have a flow meter to give it its level and the pressure switch you talk about a safety device to prevent overflow, maybe leave it alone while it still works because if it starts to go wrong it will test your patience and pocket to sort it. ( I had a German made dishwasher a few years ago that got the gremlins, ended up being the flow meter, had to source it from Germany costing circa 145 stg, this component being the size of a postage stamp, had to show the owner the cost invoice because he thought i was robbing him and that excluded the time I spent sorting it.)

John.G

Just to confirm that one of my wash machines, the Zanussi ZWG 6141P is indeed apparently a timed fill, I installed a slightly different sensor which I picked up for a few euros, its a 545-AA-017 (0-380mm H2O) and I get exactly the same fill times/volumes as the 545-AA-016 (0-300mm H2O).