Tenants using Pets as excuse to stay

Hontou

My tenants are 4 years into a Part 4 tenancy. They were given notice 10 months ago to leave the property as I have to sell for financial reasons. They are allowed to stay for Covid reasons until level 5 is over, plus more time added for the eviction notice being paused because of Covid. This is fair enough. However, they have stated that they cannot and will not be able to find a property because of their pets. They have also said that as the pets are part of their family, I cannot ask them to move when the notice period is up. I contacted many estate agents on their behalf that confirmed most landlords do not want pets. I assume this will go to the RTB after the notice period but I could not find any similar cases on their site. Any advice?

jrosen

Are they out of work because of covid?

Dtp1979

Pets?? Wow that’s the best one I’ve heard yet.

doniem

When I was buying the tenants refused to move out so the previous owner was in a similar situation. They gave every excuse imaginable and could not possibly find another place. He exhausted every avenue he could. For a finish he jacked up the rent and they miraculously found another place 3 weeks later.

This was before Covid though so I'm not sure if you can do that.

Did you allow them to have pets initially or did they bring them in unknown to you?

punisher5112

doniem wrote: »

When I was buying the tenants refused to move out so the previous owner was in a similar situation. They gave every excuse imaginable and could not possibly find another place. He exhausted every avenue he could. For a finish he jacked up the rent and they miraculously found another place 3 weeks later.

This was before Covid though so I'm not sure if you can do that.

What happens if they stop paying, you would be stick with them a year

doniem

punisher5112 wrote: »

What happens if they stop paying, you would be stick with them a year

I'm not sure, it worked out for the guy I bought from, may not work for everyone. How long does it take to evict someone for non payment of rent?

punisher5112

doniem wrote: »

I'm not sure, it worked out for the guy I bought from, may not work for everyone. How long does it take to evict someone for non payment of rent?

Could be a year or more.

hamburgham

Hontou wrote: »

My tenants are 4 years into a Part 4 tenancy. They were given notice 10 months ago to leave the property as I have to sell for financial reasons. They are allowed to stay for Covid reasons until level 5 is over, plus more time added for the eviction notice being paused because of Covid. This is fair enough. However, they have stated that they cannot and will not be able to find a property because of their pets. They have also said that as the pets are part of their family, I cannot ask them to move when the notice period is up. I contacted many estate agents on their behalf that confirmed most landlords do not want pets. I assume this will go to the RTB after the notice period but I could not find any similar cases on their site. Any advice?

This is why some rescues will only give dogs to homeowners and not tenants and they're slated for it.

If any landlord is reading, maybe try giving a tenant with a pet a chance. It's not right to assume that a pet will necesarily damage a house. I know people whose houses are like showhouses even with a cat and a dog wandering around. A pup causes havoc but any mature dogs I know are fine in the house. It's linked to the tenant, a responsible tenant is not going to let their pet damage someone else's house.

I'm assuming the pets are dogs but maybe not. Op, can you see if the pets have actually caused any damage in your house ? Could you provide a reference for them if they haven't ?

Baby01032012

You do know the equal status act applies to animals, you can’t be discriminating against the poor cat or dog...

Claw Hammer

Hontou wrote: »

My tenants are 4 years into a Part 4 tenancy. They were given notice 10 months ago to leave the property as I have to sell for financial reasons. They are allowed to stay for Covid reasons until level 5 is over, plus more time added for the eviction notice being paused because of Covid. This is fair enough. However, they have stated that they cannot and will not be able to find a property because of their pets. They have also said that as the pets are part of their family, I cannot ask them to move when the notice period is up. I contacted many estate agents on their behalf that confirmed most landlords do not want pets. I assume this will go to the RTB after the notice period but I could not find any similar cases on their site. Any advice?

I knew a landlord who had an overholding dispute. The tenants said they couldn't find alternative housing. The RTB ruled that the landlord had no duty to house tenants and once they had served a valid notice, thery were entitled to a determination order. There is only a determination order on the rtb website so it doesn't show the basis of the decision.

spaceHopper

Hontou wrote: »

Any advice?

Tell them it's not your problem you need to sell and that's the end of it. Don't go calling EA's on their behalf, that's making it your problem and gives them an excuse to stay.

Zebrag

Hi OP

When you advertise the house for rent, did you state that no pets were allowed? Or even word of mouth?

I've rented 2 apartments and both have stated clearly that no pets were allowed. Whether that was for damage reasons or reasons like you've stated. I think your tenants are taking the pi$$ to be honest. Did they even ask could they have pets?

Your tenants pets are not your problem. You've already given them notice and extended their notice due to Covid and now, it's lifting lightly that people are actually allowed to move for various and reasonable reasons. Like previous posters have said, you've made it clear. You've went above and beyond to contact other LL which you didn't have too and it was kind of you too but now you want them out for financial reasons.

Hontou

Thanks all for replies. Spacehopper, you are right. They kept asking me to help them out and said if I need them to move then I have to help them. Now they are seeing it as my responsibility to find them a house!

PetitPois89

Never heard the likes of it and I’ve worked in property management a long time. Pets are no grounds for a tenant to overhold and I can’t see that holding up in the RTB. Plenty of Landlords will accepts pets, many do ask for a pet deposit, but it has definitely become more commonplace lately for tenants to have pets. Their pets are not your problem anyway.

There’s nothing you can do now until the notice is up, then I’d lodge a dispute for over holding if they haven’t moved out

Hontou

Doniem, The rent was put up 19 months ago so I cannot put it up for another 5 months but I will. It is not in an RPZ zone but the rent can be reviewed every 2 years.

extra-ordinary_

Hontou wrote: »

Thanks all for replies. Spacehopper, you are right. They kept asking me to help them out and said if I need them to move then I have to help them. Now they are seeing it as my responsibility to find them a house!

Don't like the look of where this is going...

Hontou

Zebrag. I have been renting property to tenants for 17 years. I have had tenants with pets who were not great and I have had tenants with pets that have kept the place pristine. It is never the pets that are the problem, it is the owners. As an animal lover myself, I allow pets. I vetted these people but clearly not enough. They had 2 pets when they moved in and got more after moving in. There was nothing in the contract stating this was not allowed......my fault and stupidity. They got another large dog and this dog has caused damage. I repaired the damage but they reimbursed me.

Hontou

I sent a long text message telling them that their pets are not my responsibility. They informed someone I sent over for repairs yesterday that they showed my text to a solicitor and the solicitor said the text constituted bullying during Covid. I think I just have to do and say nothing until Level 5 is over and they get their extra 4/5 months on top of that and then put the rent up and start a dispute with the RTB. But I feel they are looking for any angle possible to make this very difficult.

Hontou

These tenants are on HAP so getting the rent tg!

Hontou

There is no doubt in my mind that these dogs are unlikely to be licensed. I am petrified of rocking the boat as these people have possession of my property and they would know it was me reporting them. (But I love your post). There has been trouble already between these tenants and neighbours and I don't want it flaring up again.

Baby01032012

Hontou wrote: »

These tenants are on HAP so getting the rent tg!

Yes but if they stop paying their portion to HAP HAP will stop paying you. This has happened to me as a landlord.

Baby01032012

I presume this is a house not apartment. As if apartment it is likely against the house rules to keep a pet.

In summary if you have given them the proper notice and signed declaration from solicitor witnessed by notary then they have to leave when notice and level 5 restrictions are lifted. I’d submit the rtb dispute now to save time.

Hontou

Yes. Have served correct notice and declaration of selling signed by solicitor back last Summer and waited until the exact date allowed in light of Covid. I originally intended giving notice in Spring. I follow the rules exactly, always......even though it is hard to keep up with the constant goal post changes designed to demonize fair landlords. I assumed I could not start dealings with RTB until level 5 restrictions are lifted and the extra months of lockdown added to the term?

Hontou

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Yes but if they stop paying their portion to HAP HAP will stop paying you. This has happened to me as a landlord.

But if they stop paying their rent, can't I get them out sooner.....before lockdown ends? (Not sure where I read this)

PetitPois89

Hontou wrote: »

Yes. Have served correct notice and declaration of selling signed by solicitor back last Summer and waited until the exact date allowed in light of Covid. I originally intended giving notice in Spring. I follow the rules exactly, always......even though it is hard to keep up with the constant goal post changes designed to demonize fair landlords. I assumed I could not start dealings with RTB until level 5 restrictions are lifted and the extra months of lockdown added to the term?

No you’ll need to wait until the tenants outstayed their notice to lodge any dispute. RTB won’t deal with it otherwise and you need to appear on paper to give the tenants every opportunity

Baby01032012

Hontou wrote: »

But if they stop paying their rent, can't I get them out sooner.....before lockdown ends? (Not sure where I read this)

Na...you’ll still have to go through the long rtb process...adjudication appeal tribunal appeal determination....took me a year to get non paying over holding tenants out.

NomadicGray

NomadicGray wrote: »

Horrible, horrible cunty suggestion

Nearly, but not quite as bad as tenants suggesting the op is obliged to find them new accommodation, because they have pets.

doniem

Baby01032012 wrote: »

Na...you’ll still have to go through the long rtb process...adjudication appeal tribunal appeal determination....took me a year to get non paying over holding tenants out.

Do you mind me asking what happened in the end? Did you get the rent you were owed?

spaceHopper

Hontou wrote: »

I assumed I could not start dealings with RTB until level 5 restrictions are lifted and the extra months of lockdown added to the term?

By all means call the RTB for advice or better still email them to have it in writing. But don't open an dispute with them. Your tenants had 28 days to contest the notice you gave them and didn't. Don't open one for them, you'd have to wait until there is an adjudication.

Keep a diary from now. Note all texts and call. They are either bluffing about the solicitor or they have one and are planning their next move. You now need to get one. Talk it over with your solicitor but I'd look at writing to them to say no more pets, Whats to stop them getting more making it impossible for them to be able to find anywhere else. You might get a LL to take two cats or two dogs but a rake of them would be refused.

Baby01032012

doniem wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what happened in the end? Did you get the rent you were owed?

No, they were criminals running a brothel, they’d given false id and references to the letting agent. Stopped paying after month 1. Guards raided it twice before they left. Once guards got them out for second time I changed locks over night. They came back and changed locks again. Had to get management company to board up front door of apartment and wait few months. Rtb were useless. Anyway sorry I’ve gone off topic. Prostitution and pets are very different.

JustAThought

Did the tenants tell him he was bullying them by complaining they were running a brothel !! I bet he didn’t believe that nonsense!!!

OP -
tell them their pets are not your problem and theya re ruining their chances of getting a good ll reference if they keep this up. They can also board their dog or cat until they secure new place - or their friends or family can mind them for them. They are your tenants not your children - they need to stop complaining and behaving as such.

Countryboy2018

What you need to do now straight away is to take out a dispute for Vadility of your own notice that your have already served on your tenants.
By doing this you will get your date for an Adjudication hearing, therefore you will get your Determination order sooner rather than having to wait for ban on evictions to end and then your tenants to overhold ,which they will more than likely do.
Do it now and dont waste any more time.
It’s not your responsibility to find them somewhere else.
I understand that you want to help move them on by finding somewhere for them, I too tried this as well, but then you will only hear sob stories etc.
Better not to text them again, be professional with them from now on.
Go online on RTB website and open a dispute for ‘Vadility of notice’

Sheep Shagger

Welcome to being a landlord in Ireland.

Where a tenant can decide to stop paying or just refuse to move out and there's nothing you can do. The RTB have no teeth and can issue a piece of paper that's not worth a euro.

Hopefully it doesn't come to this, I wish you luck.

From a burnt now ex land lord as just wasn't worth the grief.

If correct notice has been served but can't progress until after level 5, why is there even discussions?

I wouldn't entertain conversion in the issue. They were given notice and that's that. When it's time to go and they don't, lodge the complaint.

I don't believe for a second any solicitor was involved

Antares35

hamburgham wrote: »

This is why some rescues will only give dogs to homeowners and not tenants and they're slated for it.

If any landlord is reading, maybe try giving a tenant with a pet a chance. It's not right to assume that a pet will necesarily damage a house. I know people whose houses are like showhouses even with a cat and a dog wandering around. A pup causes havoc but any mature dogs I know are fine in the house. It's linked to the tenant, a responsible tenant is not going to let their pet damage someone else's house.

I'm assuming the pets are dogs but maybe not. Op, can you see if the pets have actually caused any damage in your house ? Could you provide a reference for them if they haven't ?

Were the same, we are stuck living in a shítty toxic situation with family and have just given up looking for somewhere to rent because of our pets. Abandoning them isn't an option. If you do a quick search on daft for "any property" "anywhere in Ireland" that allows pets... Well it's pretty depressing we are buying in a couple of months anyway but we really would have loved a one year lease somewhere before buying but we were pretty much stuck. My dad is a pet friendly landlord, his tenants have a dog and there's never a problem. The place looks better now than it did pre-let! They're so fastidious and always doing odd jobs etc. Well, it's a LLs market so can't expect things to change any time soon.

Hontou

Antares35 wrote: »

...... have just given up looking for somewhere to rent because of our pets. Abandoning them isn't an option. If you do a quick search on daft for "any property" "anywhere in Ireland" that allows pets... Well it's pretty depressing ............. Well, it's a LLs market so can't expect things to change any time soon.

The problem is the tenants who allow their pets damage the property ruin it for everyone else. I always allowed pets but after being burned by present tenants will never allow pets again. In fact, as others have said, these tenants have made us decide to get out of property rental (along with personal financial reasons). I didn't mention it before but they have also destroyed our property with mould by blocking up vents, refusing to turn on the oven extractor or open windows. This is impossible to prove, although we have had builders confirm it is the most likely explanation. The government and Threshold protect bad tenants. This then makes landlords leave the market, not allow pets, put up rent etc. The victims are then good tenants as well as good landlords. If the bad tenants were dealt with appropriately, there would be a fairer marketplace for the 99% good tenants.

Antares35

Hontou wrote: »

The problem is the tenants who allow their pets damage the property ruin it for everyone else. I always allowed pets but after being burned by present tenants will never allow pets again. In fact, as others have said, these tenants have made us decide to get out of property rental (along with personal financial reasons). I didn't mention it before but they have also destroyed our property with mould by blocking up vents, refusing to turn on the oven extractor or open windows. This is impossible to prove, although we have had builders confirm it is the most likely explanation. The government and Threshold protect bad tenants. This then makes landlords leave the market, not allow pets, put up rent etc. The victims are then good tenants as well as good landlords. If the bad tenants were dealt with appropriately, there would be a fairer marketplace for the 99% good tenants.

I know all this, and fully understand the reasons why. Was just offering our own perspective. I was actually surprised that my dad went down that road. He has the property near him so it's easier to keep an eye I suppose. Or maybe he'd a soft spot because he saw the difficulty I had. He's also been lucky!

Mad_maxx

on a slightly unrelated matter , came across a property for sale recently where the tenants ( or one of them ) was running a dog grooming business from the property ( was not advertised but i found out indirectly )

is this legal ?

even it is , surely it would ruin the house ? , didnt appear to be a garage attached to house

Hontou

I think a property has to be registered as a business. I had to stop childminding happening in a property I was renting. What would have happened if there was an accident in a house insured as a home only?

Sheep Shagger

Hontou wrote: »

I think a property has to be registered as a business. I had to stop childminding happening in a property I was renting. What would have happened if there was an accident in a house insured as a home only?

True, you wouldn't have any insurance.

Mad_maxx

Hontou wrote: »

I think a property has to be registered as a business. I had to stop childminding happening in a property I was renting. What would have happened if there was an accident in a house insured as a home only?

who registers the property as a business , the landlord or the tenant who is operating the dog grooming business , presumably the landlord ?

do home owners who operate Air B + B need to register as a business too ?

we did Air B + B for a month each summer ( pre covid ) due to galway races demand and must have had twenty different strangers in the house over a month long period , we didnt register as a business