Nicely specced family size non-diesel 2014-17 for 15k to 20k - hen's teeth?

JCDUB

Hi,

I'm looking for, as described, a nicely specced, automatic, family sized car that's not diesel, from 2014-2017 and I'm willing to go to €20k price wise. I've been having major difficulty finding anything decent that's within the price range.

I don't do enough mileage for diesel, about 10k miles a year, and I've been stung with major injector problems on a diesel before, so never again.

Plug-in hybrid is not an option as I only have on-street parking and would not put a cable across the pavement to the car, what with our compo culture:mad:

What few BMWs are about are out of my price range.
Mercedes petrols are non-existent, and the hybrids seem to be all plug ins apart from the very early ones, which don't seem to be up to much and are basically just a diesel with a tiny electric motor thrown at it.
Lexus are the obvious choice, although the IS is pretty small, particularly with the boot space being taken up with batteries, and they're all high teens and into the 20's for old cars using ancient, if reliable, tech.
Audi petrols are non-existent too, as far as I can see.

I'd also like a bit of oomph, so the 1.0tsi's in the Skoda's don't really appeal to me, although the 1.4 may do it, but I don't know much/anything about them, engine and reliability wise.

Here's a few examples of what's out there:

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is300h-sport-2016-low-mileage/27528369 22k for a 2016 IS300h, seems like madness to me.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-gs-300h-luxury-light-interior-sunroof/26290510 23k for a 2015 GS300h seems like better value than above, but still very expensive.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-3-series-automatic-estate-2014/26120251 A 2014 bog spec 3 series touring, 1.6 petrol, €14k. I think it's awful, but there's nothing else!!

So, have I missed anything? Or, thoughts on any of the above?
I know petrols and non plug-in hybrids are rare, but I'm not going diesel, do I have any options??

bidiots

Prius Plus maybe?

Del2005

Why are you ruling out plug in hybrids? Just use them on petrol all the time and charge if you get a chance.

Matthewjohn

Audi A4 1.4?

https://www.carsireland.ie/2775771

Technique

Del2005 wrote: »

Why are you ruling out plug in hybrids? Just use them on petrol all the time and charge if you get a chance.

Yeah, you'd get a BMW 330e for that price. Based on my experience, you'll get 40mpg (7l/100km) without plugging in which is in itself decent for a 250bhp car.

JCDUB

Del2005 wrote: »

Why are you ruling out plug in hybrids? Just use them on petrol all the time and charge if you get a chance.

Technique wrote: »

Yeah, you'd get a BMW 330e for that price. Based on my experience, you'll get 40mpg (7l/100km) without plugging in which is in itself decent for a 250bhp car.

I did mention this on the EV forum and was told it's a waste of time, all I'm doing is dragging around extra weight with batteries, it's not economical etc.
They said it's just a 320i with heavy batteries in it, which I suppose is true.

I'd genuinely be open to it, as I like the 330e and there are some nicely specced ones around.

There's an on street charger near my house that I could use intermittently I suppose. Hmmmm, food for thought.

What are the boots like? Would I fit something large like golf clubs or a buggy and a few other items in? If so then it ticks all the boxes really.

bilbot79

I got a Jag XE diesel 2016 recently with 45k miles on the clock and a 2 year warranty for 18k. Surely with a warranty you can just upgrade after 2 years?

Del2005

JCDUB wrote: »

I did mention this on the EV forum and was told it's a waste of time, all I'm doing is dragging around extra weight with batteries, it's not economical etc.
They said it's just a 320i with heavy batteries in it, which I suppose is true.

I'd genuinely be open to it, as I like the 330e and there are some nicely specced ones around.

There's an on street charger near my house that I could use intermittently I suppose. Hmmmm, food for thought.

What are the boots like? Would I fit something large like golf clubs or a buggy and a few other items in? If so then it ticks all the boxes really.

Of course the people into BEV will tell you that PHEV is a waste of time, but you are only doing tiny milage so hauling extra weight won't make any difference to you. If you were doing big milage a PHEV would be useless but you could run a V8 if you wanted with your milage.

bazz26

Del2005 wrote: »

Why are you ruling out plug in hybrids? Just use them on petrol all the time and charge if you get a chance.

Del2005 wrote: »

Of course the people into BEV will tell you that PHEV is a waste of time, but you are only doing tiny milage so hauling extra weight won't make any difference to you. If you were doing big milage a PHEV would be useless but you could run a V8 if you wanted with your milage.

I'm into neither but what is the point of getting one if you are not going to charge it regularly? All you are doing is just carrying around big heavy batteries that eat into boot space. Also most PHEV are slow to charge so are more suited to overnight charging than you sitting and waiting at a public charger for 30 mins. Just buy a regular petrol variant if you have no ability to charge a PHEV at home in my view.

McCrack

JCDUB wrote: »

Hi,

I'm looking for, as described, a nicely specced, automatic, family sized car that's not diesel, from 2014-2017 and I'm willing to go to €20k price wise. I've been having major difficulty finding anything decent that's within the price range.

I don't do enough mileage for diesel, about 10k miles a year, and I've been stung with major injector problems on a diesel before, so never again.

Plug-in hybrid is not an option as I only have on-street parking and would not put a cable across the pavement to the car, what with our compo culture:mad:

What few BMWs are about are out of my price range.
Mercedes petrols are non-existent, and the hybrids seem to be all plug ins apart from the very early ones, which don't seem to be up to much and are basically just a diesel with a tiny electric motor thrown at it.
Lexus are the obvious choice, although the IS is pretty small, particularly with the boot space being taken up with batteries, and they're all high teens and into the 20's for old cars using ancient, if reliable, tech.
Audi petrols are non-existent too, as far as I can see.

I'd also like a bit of oomph, so the 1.0tsi's in the Skoda's don't really appeal to me, although the 1.4 may do it, but I don't know much/anything about them, engine and reliability wise.

Here's a few examples of what's out there:

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is300h-sport-2016-low-mileage/27528369 22k for a 2016 IS300h, seems like madness to me.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-gs-300h-luxury-light-interior-sunroof/26290510 23k for a 2015 GS300h seems like better value than above, but still very expensive.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/bmw-3-series-automatic-estate-2014/26120251 A 2014 bog spec 3 series touring, 1.6 petrol, €14k. I think it's awful, but there's nothing else!!

So, have I missed anything? Or, thoughts on any of the above?
I know petrols and non plug-in hybrids are rare, but I'm not going diesel, do I have any options??

Just as well we have "compo culture" to help prevent ignorance who think they should be able to trail a cable across a public footpath causing a trip hazard to people including the elderly and visually impaired

JCDUB

bazz26 wrote: »

I'm into neither but what is the point of getting one if you are not going to charge it regularly? All you are doing is just carrying around big heavy batteries that eat into boot space. Also most PHEV are slow to charge so are more suited to overnight charging than you sitting and waiting at a public charger for 30 mins. Just buy a regular petrol variant if you have no ability to charge a PHEV at home in my view.

Because there aren't any out there!

There are a handful of 330i's but they're all about €25-30k

JCDUB

McCrack wrote: »

Just as well we have "compo culture" to help prevent ignorance who think they should be able to trail a cable across a public footpath causing a trip hazard to people including the elderly and visually impaired

Thanks for your input, very constructive.

Who, or what, are "ignorance?"

bazz26

JCDUB wrote: »

Because there aren't any out there!

There are a handful of 330i's but they're all about €25-30k

My post was aimed at the person saying just run plug in hybrid as a regular petrol car. Your carrying dead weight around that takes up space and isn't going to be used.

McCrack

JCDUB wrote: »

Thanks for your input, very constructive.

Who, or what, are "ignorance?"

The state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness.

Casati

bazz26 wrote: »

My post was aimed at the person saying just run plug in hybrid as a regular petrol car. Your carrying dead weight around that takes up space and isn't going to be used.

Your generally carrying around deadweight in a car unless all seats are filled and your using every bhp available all the time. Surely a long range EV is also carrying dead weight in the form of extra batteries that. might never be used either? On the EV forum I’ve never heard somebody say ‘ don’t buy the Long Range ID3 versus the base as it’s heavier

I would defo consider a 330e but check if the boot is big enough

bazz26

Casati wrote: »

Your generally carrying around deadweight in a car unless all seats are filled and your using every bhp available all the time. Surely a long range EV is also carrying dead weight in the form of extra batteries that. might never be used either? On the EV forum I’ve never heard somebody say ‘ don’t buy the Long Range ID3 versus the base as it’s heavier

I would defo consider a 330e but check if the boot is big enough

If you bought a long range EV and are not using that range then why did you buy it over the standard range one given that the long range one costs a premium over the standard range one specifically for the extra range? The same way what is the point in buying any hybrid that you have to plug in if you are rarely or never going to plug it in? The only answer that seems to be given here is that it's the only choice available in that model within budget.

People can buy what they like but it just seems daft to me buying a plug in hybrid when your never going to actually plug it in.

JCDUB

bazz26 wrote: »

People can buy what they like but it just seems daft to me buying a plug in hybrid when your never going to actually plug it in.

Seems daft to me too really tbh.

The whole idea of buying a hybrid and then very rarely using the hybrid system just because there aren't any other options out there doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd say I'd plug it in once a week at Lidl, and maybe one other time a week if I was stopped somewhere that had one handy.

Bloody government and their hard sell of diesels for years:rolleyes::pac:

HBC08

bilbot79 wrote: »

I got a Jag XE diesel 2016 recently with 45k miles on the clock and a 2 year warranty for 18k. Surely with a warranty you can just upgrade after 2 years?

I'm looking at those at the moment,sounds like a good deal but what kind of spec would you get with that?

Water2626262

I’ve a 2018 330e. Came from a diesel and absolutely love it but you would want to charge it regularly to get economy. I’m only doing short runs at the moment and getting 10l/100km. Still waiting on a charger and too lazy to use the granny cable (no external socket). It’s not worth the effort using a public charger as the range is c 20k. Granny cable charges in c 2 hours.

That being said I absolute do not give a monkeys. 250 brake and very quick off the mark. Just something to look out for if economy is a factor.

Technique

The boot in the 330e is the same length as the standard 3 series, but not as deep. If you're looking to carry buggies and golf bags then you'd need to check it out before buying. I'd also recommend looking for one with split folding rear seats, which surprisingly weren't standard on the F30.

Del2005

bazz26 wrote: »

My post was aimed at the person saying just run plug in hybrid as a regular petrol car. Your carrying dead weight around that takes up space and isn't going to be used.

The OP is doing tiny milage so hauling extra weight won't make much difference to the cost of running the car. They are looking for 2nd hand petrols and because of the feck up by the EU pushing diesel the only options are hybrid or PHEV, if there was a decent selection of normal petrol cars then I wouldn't be recommending a PHEV.

Squeaksoutloud

Highline Passat here at your budget..seems pricey enough though.

https://www.carzone.ie/used-cars/Volkswagen/Passat/fpa/202010145002284

Auto 1.4 petrol.

Casati

JCDUB wrote: »

Seems daft to me too really tbh.

The whole idea of buying a hybrid and then very rarely using the hybrid system just because there aren't any other options out there doesn't make much sense to me.

I'd say I'd plug it in once a week at Lidl, and maybe one other time a week if I was stopped somewhere that had one handy.

Bloody government and their hard sell of diesels for years:rolleyes::pac:

You don’t have to plug in PHEV’s to use the hybrid system, the battery regeneration is working under braking. Most PHEV’s are generally more economical (even when never plugged in) than the equivalent petrol as they are hybrids. The extra weight is possibly an issue if your rally the car around as the handling might be less impressive and smaller boot might rule it out for some buyers . You also get the advantage of typical bhp gains versus petrol models- the 330e even uncharged is way faster than the 320i it’s based on. Obviously you should charge it if you can, but not being able to charge shouldn’t automatically stop you from buying every PHEV.

I never actually weighed any car I have bought, and would consider it a daft pastime, but if your into that sort of thing one car being heavier than another might bother you I guess

bilbot79

HBC08 wrote: »

I'm looking at those at the moment,sounds like a good deal but what kind of spec would you get with that?

Mine is low spec compared to others alright but still a fab car. Manual and don't have sat nav but this is really a driver's car. Handling is superb

Casati

bilbot79 wrote: »

Mine is low spec compared to others alright but still a fab car. Manual and don't have sat nav but this is really a driver's car. Handling is superb

The 2.0 petrol 250bhp is meant to a peach of an engine but co2 was v high so you’d probably not find a secondhand one

JCDUB

Water2626262 wrote: »

I’ve a 2018 330e. Came from a diesel and absolutely love it but you would want to charge it regularly to get economy. I’m only doing short runs at the moment and getting 10l/100km. Still waiting on a charger and too lazy to use the granny cable (no external socket). It’s not worth the effort using a public charger as the range is c 20k. Granny cable charges in c 2 hours.

That being said I absolute do not give a monkeys. 250 brake and very quick off the mark. Just something to look out for if economy is a factor.

Ok, that's great info, thanks.
10l/100km isn't bad, especially as you say with 250 horses.
Do you know how long it would take on a public charger? Quicker than granny cable at home I presume?
And how much it costs?

The M performance ones are beautiful. Even M sport are a tasty looking motor.

JCDUB

Casati wrote: »

The 2.0 petrol 250bhp is meant to a peach of an engine but co2 was v high so you’d probably not find a secondhand one

I'll have a look. They tick all the boxes apart from diesel, although they are a bit dated looking now.

Those R Sport black editions are a nice looking motor.

Technique

JCDUB wrote: »

The M performance ones are beautiful. Even M sport are a tasty looking motor.

Cars advertised as M Performance are usually the base model with a cheap bodykit and alloy wheels. I'd advise you to avoid these and look for an M Sport instead. They may be a bit more expensive but they hold their value and will age better.

Hurrache

JCDUB wrote: »

I'd also like a bit of oomph, so the 1.0tsi's in the Skoda's don't really appeal to me, although the 1.4 may do it, but I don't know much/anything about them, engine and reliability wise.

The 1.4 TSi is great, but like your thread title, rare as hens teeth. They weren't really sold in Ireland but over the last couple of years dealers started bringing them in from the UK, but still hard to see for sale in Ireland.

JCDUB

Technique wrote: »

Cars advertised as M Performance are usually the base model with a cheap bodykit and alloy wheels. I'd advise you to avoid these and look for an M Sport instead. They may be a bit more expensive but they hold their value and will age better.

Thanks. I see a reasonable number of "M Performance" about, with the side skirt that says "M Performance" on it and other bits.

Are they mostly after market add on jobs?
Does the factory "M Performance" pack actually add any performance or is it just a look?

kirving

bazz26 wrote: »

If you bought a long range EV and are not using that range then why did you buy it over the standard range one given that the long range one costs a premium over the standard range one specifically for the extra range? The same way what is the point in buying any hybrid that you have to plug in if you are rarely or never going to plug it in? The only answer that seems to be given here is that it's the only choice available in that model within budget.

People can buy what they like but it just seems daft to me buying a plug in hybrid when your never going to actually plug it in.

But the OP wouldn't be paying a premium for a 330 as they cost less than the equivalent diesel, likely due to their availability, many are imports, and worse fuel economy than a diesel. But at 10k per year, fuel economy doesn't factor much.

Aside from boot space, which may be important to many, there really isn't much of a downside to a 330e vs a regular petrol.

Casati

JCDUB wrote: »

Thanks. I see a reasonable number of "M Performance" about, with the side skirt that says "M Performance" on it and other bits.

Are they mostly after market add on jobs?
Does the factory "M Performance" pack actually add any performance or is it just a look?

I’ve wondered that myself, those M performance side skirts and boot spoiler looks v well

Technique

JCDUB wrote: »

Thanks. I see a reasonable number of "M Performance" about, with the side skirt that says "M Performance" on it and other bits.

Are they mostly after market add on jobs?
Does the factory "M Performance" pack actually add any performance or is it just a look?

Casati wrote: »

I’ve wondered that myself, those M performance side skirts and boot spoiler looks v well

I don't believe that M Performance kit came standard from the factory, although dealers would have fitted on request. Most of the kits you see are aftermarket copies. Despite the name, there is no performance benefit. Everyone's taste is different, but I think a standard M Sport without a bodykit looks much better.

kirving

Very many of the "M Performance" cars are pretty low spec, in that they're missing the M-Sport wheel, LED Lights, Pro Nav and Electric Seats.

Dr_Colossus

JCDUB wrote: »

Here's a few examples of what's out there:

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-is300h-sport-2016-low-mileage/27528369 22k for a 2016 IS300h, seems like madness to me.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/lexus-gs-300h-luxury-light-interior-sunroof/26290510 23k for a 2015 GS300h seems like better value than above, but still very expensive.

I was thinking of changing my Volvo S60 petrol as it's approaching 15 years old and insurance is a bit of a pain and expensive at €500 for TPFT with 10+ years NCB.

Similar search criteria to you and do even less mileage and have a driveway where I could potentially charge a PHEV but the choice of anything half reasonable is non existent. Any non diesel search returns slim pickings (thanks to CO2 motor tax since 2008) such as the Lexus' mentioned above.

Never drove either but fine looking cars, preference for the GS300h (or better yet GS450h) for size but the IS300h for the sportier look. Out of interest got a quick insurance quote on the above IS300h and FBD wanted €892 for comprehensive + NCB protection and breakdown assist. Ridiculous money and wasn't bothered to ring around for a better offer as I'll likely be keeping mine for another year now given the poor options available.

Hadn't thought of the BMW 330E previously (initial insurance quote was showing €854) as a little on the small side. BMW 530E (initial insurance on that was showing €715) would be nice but over budget and while I have great time for the Volvo's a search for non-diesels S60, S80 or S90 between 2013 and 2018 returns only one option, the 2018 S90 below for €32k
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/volvo-s90-2-0-t5-250-bhp-inscription-4dr-auto-/27155314
The S90 T8 Phev would be nice but you've to go to 2019 and €38k to find one of those.

The choice of 2nd hand petrol or petrol/hybrid cars in Ireland is non existent and pretty frustrating. For reference I bought my Volvo S60 over 6 years ago and paid €3k for it at the time (partly due to the sickening €710 yearly tax bill), great value and has been very reliable over that tenure but not looking like there's anything to encourage a move away.

Water2626262

JCDUB wrote: »

Ok, that's great info, thanks.
10l/100km isn't bad, especially as you say with 250 horses.
Do you know how long it would take on a public charger? Quicker than granny cable at home I presume?
And how much it costs?

The M performance ones are beautiful. Even M sport are a tasty looking motor.

Right now I’m only doing a 5km commute and not driving that economically so I’m sure I could squeeze out much better. I’m not sure if the 330e came in m performance spec. Seems to be a few modded to look the same. I’ve a shadow line and it pretty much has everything bar sunroof, electric seats and active cruise control.

Harmon Kardon was a must for me and widescreen nav. They seem to be somewhat rare, if push came to shove the wide screen wouldn’t have been a deal breaker.

The thing with phev’s is they don’t fast charge but they charge on a granny cable much quicker than a full EV. I imagine charging on a public charger is just marginally faster. I’ve never used a public charger. As I say at c 20km range just not worth it and the full ev community are very judgemental of phevs using public chargers.

The only thing I fear is a big bill at some stage but I haven’t had a single issue so far (albeit over only 4 months).

JCDUB

Water2626262 wrote: »

Right now I’m only doing a 5km commute and not driving that economically so I’m sure I could squeeze out much better. I’m not sure if the 330e came in m performance spec. Seems to be a few modded to look the same. I’ve a shadow line and it pretty much has everything bar sunroof, electric seats and active cruise control.

Harmon Kardon was a must for me and widescreen nav. They seem to be somewhat rare, if push came to shove the wide screen wouldn’t have been a deal breaker.

The thing with phev’s is they don’t fast charge but they charge on a granny cable much quicker than a full EV. I imagine charging on a public charger is just marginally faster. I’ve never used a public charger. As I say at c 20km range just not worth it and the full ev community are very judgemental of phevs using public chargers.

The only thing I fear is a big bill at some stage but I haven’t had a single issue so far (albeit over only 4 months).

Excellent, thanks again for the info. Yeah there was a few posts earlier on the "M Performance," seems it's only an after market body mod package.

I'd like the HK sound system but it wouldn't be a deal breaker, I like my tunes but I'm not an audiophile. M sport is a definite though. There's a lovely black edition on DD but it's pricier than the M sport, obviously enough.
Does yours have Android connect or just Bluetooth?

Interesting info on public charging and full EV owners too, good to know!

Water2626262

JCDUB wrote: »

Excellent, thanks again for the info. Yeah there was a few posts earlier on the "M Performance," seems it's only an after market body mod package.

I'd like the HK sound system but it wouldn't be a deal breaker, I like my tunes but I'm not an audiophile. M sport is a definite though. There's a lovely black edition on DD but it's pricier than the M sport, obviously enough.
Does yours have Android connect or just Bluetooth?

Interesting info on public charging and full EV owners too, good to know!

Has Bluetooth and wireless CarPlay but supposedly no android auto (bmw late to the party). Bmw have a Spotify app which is actually better than what you get on CarPlay (well from what I’ve seen). Can search for songs using idrive controller etc. There are aftermarket kits available for Android auto

kirving

As far as I know the F30 330e internal circuitry (3.7kW) is sized to match a standard German plug, which is rated to 16A as opposed to the UK style 13A.

The granny charger supplied here is only a 10A version though, so I'm no sure if the Germans get that, a 16A version, or something in between.

You only get a small doped improvement using a public charger vs the granny cable.

You also get pre-heating/cooling and remote lock/unlock as an added bonus over a normal 3 series.

I've a 161, end of 2015 car. If I pay for ConnectedDrive, can I get Spotify?

JCDUB

Ok, so it seems like public charging isn't worth buying the cable required or the evils you'll probably get from the full EV mafia if you try to plug in.

Prob an obvious question but are there standard plug sockets that you can plug a granny cable into at the likes of Applegreen charge points around the motorway networks of Ireland?
I presume not?
I suppose if you're doing a longer motorway journey the range is so small that a stop doesn't really matter when it comes to electric power.

Stallingrad

When my wife was looking to change her needs were pretty much identical to yours. With two kids we quickly found A4, 3 series were just too tight for space. She ended up getting a two year old Superb 1.4 150 DSG from the UK, not sure if UK is an option for you. Petrols Superbs are plentiful there, lots of young, low mileage cars with DSG within your budget. It was a great choice, and she loves the car. It was so good I ended up doing the same.

JCDUB

Stallingrad wrote: »

When my wife was looking to change her needs were pretty much identical to yours. With two kids we quickly found A4, 3 series were just too tight for space. She ended up getting a two year old Superb 1.4 150 DSG from the UK, not sure if UK is an option for you. Petrols Superbs are plentiful there, lots of young, low mileage cars with DSG within your budget. It was a great choice, and she loves the car. It was so good I ended up doing the same.

I definitely would have been going down the UK route this time last year. Unfortunately with VAT and customs duty now added on top of VRT and transport, the extra 30% cost odd makes it non-viable.

There are still possibilities with Northern Irish cars but far less options.

I know the Skoda's have massive boots, serious practicality and can come very well specced, but they are in the ha'penny place when it comes to their look.

Hmmm, style or substance...

Hurrache

Well spec'd ones look pretty good in fairness. BMWs are the same though, the majority of them you see on the road are pretty boring looking.