Change from UK licence to Irish, points added

SCOOP 64

Could not find a post on this here,
https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-...ones-1.4501185


Now i changed my UK licence to a Irish in November, unfortunately had to send back as surname was spelt wrong, still waiting for it, as article saids points will be added to a Irish licence on exchange, now in 2008 i received 2 points from what i remember also might be 2 from 2003 so could be 4 over the last 18 years, when my new Irish licence arrived i would have thought they would have been notification on transfer of points with it, now above article was news to me about this ghost system only someone told me about it, on renewal of insurance when asked if i have points on my new Irish i would have said no, not realising i have, has anyone changed there licence from UK to Irish licence and was made aware of the points added to the licence with a letter, because many might not be aware of this on exchange.

wonski

That sounds ridiculous and unfair.

Maybe your points were applied before the rule became law so they can't add them to your license?

tcawley29

People have known about this for quite a while, this has always been the way.

Maybe reach out to the NDLS asking about how many points are on your license but don't volunteer any information about old points.

They may want to confirm a few details such as name/address/dob but it's an easy process.

tcawley29

wonski wrote: »

That sounds ridiculous and unfair.

Maybe your points were applied before the rule became law so they can't add them to your license?

This rule has been around years

SCOOP 64

wonski wrote: »

That sounds ridiculous and unfair.

Maybe your points were applied before the rule became law so they can't add them to your license?

I know seems mad doesn't it after 18 years points still waiting for me, if they could have been added to the UK licence 18 years ago they would have been remove after 3 years, the people that have received the ban wonder how many years this was over, like to hear from someone in same situation were the points added on their licence.

bodonnell

Surely points from '03 & '08 have expired. Didn't read the article so maybe missed something !

Witcher

Delighted.

colm_mcm

These are points that were got in Ireland is it?

bodonnell

bodonnell wrote: »

Surely points from '03 & '08 have expired. Didn't read the article so maybe missed something !

You did, the point. :pac:

The 3 year clock doesn't start until they get applied to an _Irish_ license. So the points clocked up on a UK license are "parked" until you convert it to an Irish one.

return guide

Deleted User wrote: »

You did, the point. :pac:

The 3 year clock doesn't start until they get applied to an _Irish_ license. So the points clocked up on a UK license are "parked" until you convert it to an Irish one.

This is not true.

I had a UK license since 90, driven in Ireland since 91. Any time I have gotten points, 3 years to the month I have gotten a letter to say these points have been removed from the record and I now have 0 points.

In fact I have gotten a letter to say that I have 0 points even though i still had 3.

20/20

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

I know seems mad doesn't it after 18 years points still waiting for me,

Did you get the points while driving in Ireland or the UK ?

SCOOP 64

return guide wrote: »

This is not true.

I had a UK license since 90, driven in Ireland since 91. Any time I have gotten points, 3 years to the month I have gotten a letter to say these points have been removed from the record and I now have 0 points.

In fact I have gotten a letter to say that I have 0 points even though i still had 3.

if i remember rightly i got a letter to pay the fine and that 2 points have been added ,don't remember ever receiving a letter after 3 years that they have been taken off, as the above link states the points are kept on file until you change to a Irish licence so could be waiting for you till the day you die if you don't change your licence.

SCOOP 64

20/20 wrote: »

Did you get the points while driving in Ireland or the UK ?

In ireland

20/20

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

In ireland

Well take it like a man, You are only getting what you were owed.

Thomasirl123

return guide wrote: »

This is not true.

I had a UK license since 90, driven in Ireland since 91. Any time I have gotten points, 3 years to the month I have gotten a letter to say these points have been removed from the record and I now have 0 points.

In fact I have gotten a letter to say that I have 0 points even though i still had 3.

Did anyone bother reading the article ffs

SCOOP 64

20/20 wrote: »

Well take it like a man, You are only getting what you were owed.

Jesus really, not what this is about, to see if anyone had points loaded to a licence after changing from uk , i might not even have any, but i will get back to you if i haven't because sounds like it would annoy you:pac:

20/20

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Jesus really, not what this is about, to see if anyone else had points loaded to licence , i might not even have any, but i will get back to you if i haven't because sounds like it would annoy you:pac:

It would annoy me to think people were driving around with a UK licence and commiting offences on Irish roads without any penalties.

wonski

20/20 wrote: »

It would annoy me to think people were driving around with a UK licence and commiting offences on Irish roads without any penalties.

Taking someone's license because of 2 points in 2008, 2 points in 2011, 3 points in 2014, 3 points in 2017 and 3 in 2021 seems a bit harsh.

Doesn't bother me personally, but seems a bit unfair to defer the penalty for 12 years.

CJhaughey

I had two points on a ghost license and they wrote to me and told me they had expired three years after I got them.
If people had 12 points they were all clocked up in the three year period leading up to the license exchange.
In that case I have no pity, they got the points to modify their behavior and did not do that.

wassie

This is how it was explained to myself by AGS and NDLS, points accrue and the clock begins upon commencement of the Irish licence....and it applies to ALL foreign driver licences, not applicable to just UK licences.

I still have my doubts as it does not sound reasonable. It would be interesting to see if this would actual stand up legally if tested in court.

wonski

Oh I definitely don't mind those accumulating 12 from being banned, but not in period of 15 years

wassie

This from the NDLS Website - Penalty Points

Where a driver has a foreign licence a record will be created and the penalty points recorded on that record. The driver is required to surrender his/her Irish or foreign driving licence to the National Driver Licence Service within 10 days of disqualification commencing. It is an offence not to surrender a licence. It is also an offence to drive while disqualified.

NDLS FAQ - Penalty Points

I do not have an Irish driving licence but have a licence issued by an EU country or another country. I have received a letter regarding penalty points. Do I get points?

Yes, since 1 June 2011 the foreign licence is recorded and the points are endorsed against that record. Where a person accumulates 12 points in a 3 year period then the driver will be disqualified.

Doesn't address the issue of exchange/transfer of a licence.

Meanwhile over on Citizens Information

What happens if I commit a driving offence abroad?

Penalty points and endorsements on driving licences received in other countries (including EU/EEA member states) do not transfer between states. This means that if you got penalty points abroad or already have endorsements on your driving licence before coming to Ireland, these penalty points or endorsements will not transfer over to an Irish driving licence.

SCOOP 64

20/20 wrote: »

It would annoy me to think people were driving around with a UK licence and committing offences on Irish roads without any penalties.

Nobody should be without penalty for committing a offence on a public road, i would have gladly have taken the points on my licence at time of offence for 3 years as i would now on my Irish licence, i paid the fines at the time, i haven't committed a offence in 13 years,
At the time (2003) 2 points on my licence wouldn't have made much difference, by the time my next 2 came 5 years later i still would have only had 2 points because the 3 years have passed, but now to get 4 point for those offences 18 years later seems harsh.
But i have no pity from someone that has built up 12 points in last 3 years prior to changing the licence from a UK one if they are banned from driving.

CiniO

It's a mix between 2 systems.
Initially when a holder of foreign licence got points in Ireland, they were added to so called "ghost licence" and were never expiring - just waiting for activation in case that person swaps licence to Irish.
So. i.e. Joe who was a holder of German licence but was driving in Ireland got 2 points in 2000, 3 points i 2005 and 5 points in 2010. Those points were on ghost licence, and were never active. They didn't have to be declared anywhere. Even if he collected 30 points that way, he still wouldn't be disqualified. Those points were only activated if such person swapped licence to Irish - so if Joe swapped it in 2011 then he would have a fresh start on Irish licence with 10 points (as per example above) and he would have to wait 3 years for all of them to reset to 0.


In 2011 though system changed, and since then points in Ireland were applied no matter if you held Irish or foreign licence. In case of foreign licence it was just a register created against your name, and points were active. Had to be declared to insureres, etc... And expired after 3 years.
If 12 collected that way, such person was banned from driving in Ireland.


I really don't know what is the case with points accumulated in the old pre2011 system like in OP's case.

Marcusm

wonski wrote: »

Taking someone's license because of 2 points in 2008, 2 points in 2011, 3 points in 2014, 3 points in 2017 and 3 in 2021 seems a bit harsh.

Doesn't bother me personally, but seems a bit unfair to defer the penalty for 12 years.

If it was a UK licence then unless it was very old - think 60s - the person should not still have it. Post 1998, if an address was changed a photo card was issued which needed to be renewed each 10 years but could not unless you lived in the U.K. if an Irish resident has shadow points going back to 2003 then it’s likely that they avoided changing over to avoid the points and have now been hoist by their own petard!

return guide

return guide wrote: »

This is not true.

I had a UK license since 90, driven in Ireland since 91. Any time I have gotten points, 3 years to the month I have gotten a letter to say these points have been removed from the record and I now have 0 points.

In fact I have gotten a letter to say that I have 0 points even though i still had 3.

Go and read the article the love of dog.

Marcusm

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

Nobody should be without penalty for committing a offence on a public road, i would have gladly have taken the points on my licence at time of offence for 3 years as i would now on my Irish licence, i paid the fines at the time, i haven't committed a offence in 13 years,
At the time (2003) 2 points on my licence wouldn't have made much difference, by the time my next 2 came 5 years later i still would have only had 2 points because the 3 years have passed, but now to get 4 point for those offences 18 years later seems harsh.
But i have no pity from someone that has built up 12 points in last 3 years prior to changing the licence from a UK one if they are banned from driving.

Did you have a paper or photo card licence? If the latter then the points are not so much a problem as compared to filing a false claim for an identity document (driving licence) which carries 2 years in chokey or a 1k fine. Admittedly, it’s highly unlikely you will ever be discovered or prosecuted.

SCOOP 64

Marcusm wrote: »

If it was a UK licence then unless it was very old - think 60s - the person should not still have it. Post 1998, if an address was changed a photo card was issued which needed to be renewed each 10 years but could not unless you lived in the U.K. if an Irish resident has shadow points going back to 2003 then it’s likely that they avoided changing over to avoid the points and have now been hoist by their own petard!

Only reason i didn't change it, it was value to 2036, wouldn't have to renew every five years(HGV), this licence was perfectly exceptable in Ireland before Brexit.

SCOOP 64

Marcusm wrote: »

Did you have a paper or photo card licence? If the latter then the points are not so much a problem as compared to filing a false claim for an identity document (driving licence) which carries 2 years in chokey or a 1k fine. Admittedly, it’s highly unlikely you will ever be discovered or prosecuted.

I had the old paper one.

beachhead

CiniO wrote: »

It's a mix between 2 systems.
Initially when a holder of foreign licence got points in Ireland, they were added to so called "ghost licence" and were never expiring - just waiting for activation in case that person swaps licence to Irish.
So. i.e. Joe who was a holder of German licence but was driving in Ireland got 2 points in 2000, 3 points i 2005 and 5 points in 2010. Those points were on ghost licence, and were never active. They didn't have to be declared anywhere. Even if he collected 30 points that way, he still wouldn't be disqualified. Those points were only activated if such person swapped licence to Irish - so if Joe swapped it in 2011 then he would have a fresh start on Irish licence with 10 points (as per example above) and he would have to wait 3 years for all of them to reset to 0.


In 2011 though system changed, and since then points in Ireland were applied no matter if you held Irish or foreign licence. In case of foreign licence it was just a register created against your name, and points were active. Had to be declared to insureres, etc... And expired after 3 years.
If 12 collected that way, such person was banned from driving in Ireland.


I really don't know what is the case with points accumulated in the old pre2011 system like in OP's case.

This is the most accurate statement of the situation currently that I have read in all the postings.