Which outdoor oil boiler?

CalamariFritti

Trying to get together a few opinions.

I am looking to replace a Stanley 100k oil range with an outdoor boiler. I got a few quotes and 2 options seem to come up, Grant or Firebird.

Doing a what a layman does - Google - it seems Firebird has a higher percentage of installations that ended poorly. Poorly as in customer very unhappy with many callouts and breakdowns since installation. For both makes they seem outliers but Firebird seems to have a higher percentage of those.

Whats your opinion boards? Which is the better and more reliable and sturdy make? Which make can you find a service for more easily? Any other suggestions for 'must do's' when considering an outdoor boiler?

Thanks

Wearb

Most techs will be as comfortable servicing one oil boiler as another.
In order of robustness, Grant, Firebird and Warmflow
All modern boilers are condensing and they will not tolerate neglect like the old lower efficiency ones.
Percentage wise (and this is probably to do with cost), most of the ones that I service are Firebirds, followed by Warmflow and then Grant.
The most likely reason for the above order is that customers just send out request for heating systems and often accept the cheapest quote, or near cheapest.
There are lots of extra considerations; cleaning the system before new install. Remote acting fire valve. Condensate disposal. Magnetic filter. Inhibitor. Condition of the oil tank and it installation. Control upgrades, Zoning, etc.

CalamariFritti

Thanks Wearb, when you say 'neglect' is that not servicing it? Or not protecting it from the weather?

Wearb

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thanks Wearb, when you say 'neglect' is that not servicing it? Or not protecting it from the weather?

Lack of annual servicing, which would (should) also highlight issues such as poor weather protection. However this (weather or rodent protection) is rarely an issue with a good install.

CalamariFritti

Annual servicing is expected. Its just with the Stanley I'm down to a single guy for servicing. And he drives a Mercedes van.
I'd like to improve on that. Not that I have any complaints, but I'd like a boiler that can be serviced by most companies. Where there is a bit of competition.

Turbohymac

Just changed over here from an old firebird to a grant outdoor newest model 97%efficiency condensing oil boiler..
3different plumbers told me to change over from the firebird as the new ones were more difficult to service..
Also I think the firebird efficiency was around 90.. when you're putting in a new oil boiler it will be a 15 year time frame so pointless in picking the wrong model you won't want to be changing it next year. Both the firebird and grant use the same riello burner but the efficiency seems to be in the boiler design..

John.G

Wearb wrote: »

Most techs will be as comfortable servicing one oil boiler as another.
In order of robustness, Grant, Firebird and Warmflow
All modern boilers are condensing and they will not tolerate neglect like the old lower efficiency ones.
Percentage wise (and this is probably to do with cost), most of the ones that I service are Firebirds, followed by Warmflow and then Grant.
The most likely reason for the above order is that customers just send out request for heating systems and often accept the cheapest quote, or near cheapest.
There are lots of extra considerations; cleaning the system before new install. Remote acting fire valve. Condensate disposal. Magnetic filter. Inhibitor. Condition of the oil tank and it installation. Control upgrades, Zoning, etc.

Magnetic filter is mentioned more often now, while obviously "no harm" in fitting one, is there a difference now in the HX between a SE and a HE boiler apart from having two in the HE?. the SE, Hx is just a box full of water basically.

John.G

Turbohymac wrote: »

Just changed over here from an old firebird to a grant outdoor newest model 97%efficiency condensing oil boiler..
3different plumbers told me to change over from the firebird as the new ones were more difficult to service..
Also I think the firebird efficiency was around 90.. when you're putting in a new oil boiler it will be a 15 year time frame so pointless in picking the wrong model you won't want to be changing it next year. Both the firebird and grant use the same riello burner but the efficiency seems to be in the boiler design..

jimf did post flue gas temperatures for a few different makes which is a good indication of efficiencies provided the boiler return temperature are the same but just can't lay hands on them just now, I did write them down somewhere.
Flue gas analyzers should also give the relative efficiencies.

Turbohymac

Well. John g.
I'm going off both of the manufacturer's actual ratings. And advice from 3seperate plumbers..grant wins hands down and seeing price is always an issue amongst the irish..
There actually wasn't much more money to come up from the firebird to the most efficient grant vortex.
Then again those rogues of plumbers could have all been pulling my leg..
As they say if a bricklayer can lay bricks why can't a plumber lay plumbs.
Good luck with what ever outdoor oil boiler you go for.and also flush out the system and put in some of that special anti corrosion treatment..

John.G

The Grant 50/90 is 95% efficient & the Firebird C26 94.8%?? but I am not in the market just yet as my just run in 16 year old Firebird 90S will probably see me out.

Wearb

John.G wrote: »

Magnetic filter is mentioned more often now, while obviously "no harm" in fitting one, is there a difference now in the HX between a SE and a HE boiler apart from having two in the HE?. the SE, Hx is just a box full of water basically.

I suspect the main reason is the smaller passage ways in the HE boilers. I don't know if the addition of the ss hx has any bearing on the production of magnetite.

Steveop

They don’t use the same burner. Firebird don’t use riello burners any more

Steveop

O and grant boilers are far superior to firebird. And run a mile from warm flow

jimf

flue gas temps can vary across different makes

the lowest by far is the grant vortex usually around 65


the highest would be the firebird silver boilers not to be confused with the enviromax

the silver series can be as high as 125 this is because of the more open airways through the secondary heat exchanger compared to the enviromax

as a rule with me anyway i usually dont hang around too long once i have the boiler up to minimum stat temp i am happy to then do the fga get paid and on to the next victim sorry i mean customer

thats not to say we wont have the fga in the boiler earlier usually you can spot an overaired boiler before it reaches operating temp all this of course once you ae happy the boiler is burning clean with no soot residue

rule of thumb the proper nozzle and set pressure to mi and you are usually not far off

sometimes it better to fine tune it on the pump pressure than the air damper

eff of the vortex usually 98.5 firebird 97.6

is this the post you speak of john

John.G

That's it Jim, thanks.

Turbohymac

Hi steveop..I only bought my grant vortex a few months ago..the large hardware yard where I purchased sold both grant and firebird both with riello burners.. are we both comparing outdoor heat pack type boilers..
If not riello which type of burner has firebird changed to so recently?

jimf

Turbohymac wrote: »

Hi steveop..I only bought my grant vortex a few months ago..the large hardware yard where I purchased sold both grant and firebird both with riello burners.. are we both comparing outdoor heat pack type boilers..
If not riello which type of burner has firebird changed to so recently?

firebird have been using elco burners since sept 2018

if you have seen them a few months ago must have been very old stock

malinheader

I had a Grant Vortex condensing oil burner 50/90 installed outside in 2018. It was recommended to me because of economic running and high performance.
I have to agree with all of these so far In my experience.

Steveop

All firebirds sgould have open airways 😂😂😂 some boilers for sooting up🧐🙄

Steveop

Yep all firebirds are on Elco burners I’m pretty sure they are blue flame burners. I don’t fit firebirds any more. They gave a lot of trouble a few years ago.

NIMAN

malinheader wrote: »

I had a Grant Vortex condensing oil burner 50/90 installed outside in 2018. It was recommended to me because of economic running and high performance.
I have to agree with all of these so far In my experience.

Where did you purchase yours?

jimf

Steveop wrote: »

Yep all firebirds are on Elco burners I’m pretty sure they are blue flame burners. I don’t fit firebirds any more. They gave a lot of trouble a few years ago.

not blue flame low nox only

malinheader

NIMAN wrote: »

Where did you purchase yours?

Local builders suppliers. This model was suggested to me by the plumber who installed it.