Council taking over private estate

Neagra

looking for some advice
i own a holiday home in a 12 house private estate.
they were built as holiday homes but in the last 5 years some have been rented out full time and at least 5 are being lived in permanently by their owners.
some of the owners are pushing for the council to take over the estate and my question is does anyone have experience of this - advantages and disadvantages

i can see the advantages but
there is at least a 1 acre common area opposite the 12 homes and my fears are if we let the council take this over this estate they will build on it.

but i would like to hear anyone's personal experiences

Thanks

Xterminator

the owner can build on zoned land, regardless of council or not.

for the council to build it requires a contract with a builder, council debates, counselors who require re-electing to agree with plans etc. given the fact council don't build anything themselves, i don't see how that is more likely under council management ?

yurtyaherne

Chances are if it the estate was developed the council will not take it in charge.

There is one estate near me that was developed in this way who are having issues with the standalone waste treatment system and the council will not act on it.

Just looking online and the Donegal County Council Taking in Charge Policy states "The estate will be occupied on a full time basis and shall not be a scheme of holiday houses, special housing or a gated development."

The Cork County Council policy states "The Estate will be occupied on a full time basis and shall not be a scheme of holiday houses, special housing or a gated development."

The Sligo County Council policy states "It is also the policy of the Council not to take in charge holiday home developments or residential developments used entirely for short-term letting, or apartment type developments."

And the Council's no longer take "in charge" the common areas or public open spaces. Once taken in charge, the council will only be responsible for roads, footpaths, public lighting, water and sewage (as an Agent of Irish Water), surface water drainage. They will be responsible for roads and services and nothing more.

ted1

Neagra wrote: »

looking for some advice
i own a holiday home in a 12 house private estate.
they were built as holiday homes but in the last 5 years some have been rented out full time and at least 5 are being lived in permanently by their owners.
some of the owners are pushing for the council to take over the estate and my question is does anyone have experience of this - advantages and disadvantages

i can see the advantages but
there is at least a 1 acre common area opposite the 12 homes and my fears are if we let the council take this over this estate they will build on it.

but i would like to hear anyone's personal experiences

Thanks

Does the planning permission allow for full time occupancy. Where they built under a tax scheme ?

Claw Hammer

ted1 wrote: »

Does the planning permission allow for full time occupancy. Where they built under a tax scheme ?

A lot of holiday home schemes have houses which are permanently occupied. The councils don't care as it saves them from housing people. Most tax schemes only required the property to be available for letting during the holiday season for the first 10 years.

ted1

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A lot of holiday home schemes have houses which are permanently occupied. The councils don't care as it saves them from housing people. Most tax schemes only required the property to be available for letting during the holiday season for the first 10 years.

Exactly, are they 10 years old ?

Council might not mind but revenue will

Victor

Neagra wrote: »

i can see the advantages but there is at least a 1 acre common area opposite the 12 homes and my fears are if we let the council take this over this estate they will build on it.

Who actually owns this?

Neagra

thanks for the replies
the land is owned by the management company which in turn is owned by the owners. developer is gone and the 10 years is up on the tax scheme
no water and waste treatment on site. all connected to normal council services from the start

some home owners are pushing for the council to come in and take control of road, foot path. lights and common area. reason being if council did then the management company and its fee would become unnecessary

my fear is if the common area were transferred the council would build on it - it is prime location and i estimate its worth minimum 100,000
you would get five 3 bed houses on it easily and there is no issue with access or even parking.
i have decided i will oppose and see how it goes
thanks

brendane

If its one acre, the council will build more than 5 houses on it. Hand over the footpaths, lighting, road and drainage. Keep the green area. Management fee for cutting the grass is fairly small

Victor

Then apply for planning permission and/or sell the one acre with a strict contractual condition that the buyer builds 4-6 non-holiday houses within X years.

Neagra

brendane wrote: »

If its one acre, the council will build more than 5 houses on it. Hand over the footpaths, lighting, road and drainage. Keep the green area. Management fee for cutting the grass is fairly small

i was hoping for that but some of the owners want it all handed over - short term gain of not paying the management fee is blinding them to the fact that the council would love the common area for free.

i know a private developer wont get permission to build but the council will give themselves permission without blinking an eye. its a fine area with plenty of amenities around like parks and playgrounds .

RonanG86

The Council won't own the land because they've take the estate in charge. The Council gaining ownership of common areas is not part of the TIC process.

silver2020

I'll put the fear of god into of those wanting the council to take over.

If the council take over they may well start enforcement proceeding against any house that are not used as holiday homes. If someone in the council takes issue, they can drive it and start legal proceedings and that will cost the homeowners a lot of money.

Also the council will want to take over all the common land, not possible to just take over the things you don't want.

Fees for a 12 house estate should be no more than €500-€600 a year to include grass cutting, general maintenance, lighting and a contingency fund for potholes and the like.

But avoid at all costs the council getting involved - you do not want to draw attention to it not being used as holiday homes. A council will turn a blind eye to such use, but cannot if they take charge. Also I don't think they do take charge of holiday home developments.


One option is to have the holiday home designation lifted via a planning application and then apply for it to be taken in charge. but as others have said - you may find another few houses added to be used for the council housing list.

Claw Hammer

ted1 wrote: »

Exactly, are they 10 years old ?

Council might not mind but revenue will

The tax incentive scheme ended more than 10 years ago. Revenue no longer care.

LFC Murphy

Speaking from the perspective of those trying to get the estate taken in charge

I spent 10 years fighting to get an unfinished estate completed and taken in charge (via bond)

Through this period we had street lights turned off by service providers because bills were left unpaid, sewage issues due to lack of maintenance, roads unfinished and potholes, etc etc

It's the councils legal responsibility to take estates in charge and it's in your interest as an owner to have it completed.

Note that landscaping will not be part of the taking in charge which is madness, but that just my opinion.

Note: as per a previous poster statement, the council cannot impose management fees on home/house owners. PM me if further info needed

Victor

Note that there are two procedures for taking in charge. One is the usual route for a new estate from developer to council. The other is for the residents to petition the council. This second route would need to be monitored carefully, as I suspect only residents / ratepayers have a vote - landlords might not.

Alaninwondeand

Related.

https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/property/603838/residents-at-tipperary-housing-estate-living-in-very-serious-and-worrying-conditions.html

JustAThought

Victor wrote: »

Note that there are two procedures for taking in charge. One is the usual route for a new estate from developer to council. The other is for the residents to petition the council. This second route would need to be monitored carefully, as I suspect only residents / ratepayers have a vote - landlords might not.

not at all - the person owning the house has a vote of course. I would also have the same worry as the OP regarding the land though - do people not remember the riots at Ballymun and barricades across the roads to prevent the slums of tomorrow being plonked in their fair green open spaces - they drove the prefabricated mobile homes to other peoples lands and plonked them there when they were out working.

In relation to density and planning we saw with multiple housing estates that the planning laws were bulldozed over BY the council who quoted new laws for strategic development & housing needs. We saw it in St Annes Park despite its zoning being designated z, (one small caretaker hut only allowed) and despite it being on grasslands of a protected species, in a park and breeding grounds linked to a UNESCO world heritage centre and being declared a special area for wildlife protection etc. Its now rumbling through the courts at the residents expense while the govt fights its own laws and citizens and planning board Sickening. They will try whatever they want - you are possibly right to be worried.

I now housing estates going up with no gardens and no footpaths and front doors of family houses opening directly onto feeder roads for 300+ houses and boundary walls built like zigzags against each others kitchen windows and bedrooms with no back gardens beyond a few feet deep. It really beggars belief. And all in the name of what kind of quality of life for people who have just invested the majority of their disposable income from their lifes work in trying to live somewhere nice.

there are some shocking blocks of appartments and side appartments being allowed be built in what used be gardens.

If the roads and paths are built and the council is providing the lighting anyway what value in giving them control - especially when they are not going to cut the grass or sweep the footpaths or ever clean the shore anyway?