sole council tenant

sniperman

hi folks,friend of mine is having awful trouble at home with his partner and daughter,both alcoholics,bringing back others as well,he dont drink,he had to take out a safety order.as he was assaulted a few times,anyway he and his partner are joint tennents of a council house,because of that the daughter thinks she can do what she likes,in light of this could he take any court action to gain sole tennecy of the house,that would stop all the trouble,any suggestions?,he is at his wits end,no quieter nicer lad,he is 59,partner is 57,daughter is 36,they have already breached the order,and are in court soon for that.

Mrs OBumble

Is he legally separated from the partner?

Talk to the council. Both tenants have legal rights, it may be best if he is rehoused, which they can do if its a domestic violence situation.

sniperman

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Is he legally separated from the partner?

Talk to the council. Both tenants have legal rights, it may be best if he is rehoused, which they can do if its a domestic violence situation.

hi they were never married,he does not want to leave the house,he is there since he was 9,thats 50 years,its his home,it was first family house,the partner swapped with his father 30 years ago,she was in a council flat,and he then became joint tennent,and it is a domestic violance situation,

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

sniperman wrote: »

hi they were never married,he does not want to leave the house,he is there since he was 9,thats 50 years,its his home,it was first family house,the partner swapped with his father 30 years ago,she was in a council flat,and he then became joint tennent,and it is a domestic violance situation,

His being in the house since he was nine/not wanting to leave doesn't give him any right to it.If your friend's partner swapped with his father the partner is the tenant

You say he and the partner are joint tenants now but are you sure.? .I don't understad how he is joint tenant if hein it since he was 9 and she swaped to get the tenancy.

Even if he is joint tenant the council may want to move him rather than the partner and daughter because there are two of them and only one of him. How many rooms are in the house?. They will probably want to give your friend a one bedroom flat or house.

sniperman

Dexter Rough Straightjacket wrote: »

His being in the house since he was nine/not wanting to leave doesn't give him any right to it.If your friend's partner swapped with his father the partner is the tenant

You say he and the partner are joint tenants now but are you sure.? .I don't understad how he is joint tenant if hein it since he was 9 and she swaped to get the tenancy.

Even if he is joint tenant the council may want to move him rather than the partner and daughter because there are two of them and only one of him. How many rooms are in the house?. They will probably want to give your friend a one bedroom flat or house.

neither of them own the house,its a council house,his father and mother got the house,his partner had a 2bed ground floor flat,also council owned,because his dad was unable for the stairs in the 3 bed room house,they agreed to swap on condition the son got joint tennecy and equal rights,so she could not put him out etc,as far as i know lots of people are joint tennents,the daughter returned from uk after 15 years,and she is a nasty piece of work,she has no legal rights to the house,as there is a very long waiting houseing list,i cant see the council just giving him a place,the lad lived there with the family since he was 9,about 30 years ago the swap happened,so he has always been there,and since he is not the problem,why does he have to go?i think he is now trying to go for a barring order,as they attacked him with a knife,and kicked and punched him,and he managed to record that attack on his phone as well as other incidences,he has evidence,he confides in me alot,thats why i know about whats happening,

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

sniperman wrote: »

neither of them own the house,its a council house,his father and mother got the house,his partner had a 2bed ground floor flat,also council owned,because his dad was unable for the stairs in the 3 bed room house,they agreed to swap on condition the son got joint tennecy and equal rights,so she could not put him out etc,as far as i know lots of people are joint tennents,the daughter returned from uk after 15 years,and she is a nasty piece of work,she has no legal rights to the house,as there is a very long waiting houseing list,i cant see the council just giving him a place,the lad lived there with the family since he was 9,about 30 years ago the swap happened,so he has always been there,and since he is not the problem,why does he have to go?i think he is now trying to go for a barring order,as they attacked him with a knife,and kicked and punched him,and he managed to record that attack on his phone as well as other incidences,he has evidence,he confides in me alot,thats why i know about whats happening,

OK i see now.

they agreed to swap on condition the son got joint tennecy and equal rights,so she could not put him out etc

Were the council aware of that arrangement to swap or was it just between the partner and your friends parents?
The reason I said they may want him to move is because he is one person and the council probably will not give a three bed house to one person. They are more likely to want him to move to a one bed.I don't think having lived there as a lad will make any difference.
Are the council aware of the situation, has he approached them? I doubt there is any court action he can take to get sole custody of the house but i am not a legal person so I don't know. Councils usually consider one person in a three bed house over accommodated

Mrs OBumble

He and the partner both have rights. The council cannot just extinguish one person's rights, even thought they are engaging in ASB.

What's his priority, staying in the house with alcos, or moving to somewhere that he is safe?

If the partner agreed to move out, he could keep the place (social tenancies are for a lifetime) - but they would have to agree, which sounds unlikely.

sniperman

Dexter Rough Straightjacket wrote: »

OK i see now.
Were the council aware of that arrangement to swap or was it just between the partner and your friends parents?
The reason I said they may want him to move is because he is one person and the council probably will not give a three bed house to one person. They are more likely to want him to move to a one bed.I don't think having lived there as a lad will make any difference.
Are the council aware of the situation, has he approached them? I doubt there is any court action he can take to get sole custody of the house but i am not a legal person so I don't know. Councils usually consider one person in a three bed house over accommodated

yes the council has to agree to any swaps,he just wants to be able to refuse entry to the people they bring back,and not have them coming back drunk and causeing trouble,he evan said he dont care if they stay,as long as he has some peace,thats why he wants to be sole tennent,because as long as the partner is joint tennent,and now the daughter is back,they seem to think they can do what they like,yes he has recently contacted the council acting on advice from the garda,he is waiting for a reply,he is going to try for a barring order now,he cant live like that,no one could,thanks for advice

Just get a barring order.

sniperman

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He and the partner both have rights. The council cannot just extinguish one person's rights, even thought they are engaging in ASB.

What's his priority, staying in the house with alcos, or moving to somewhere that he is safe?

If the partner agreed to move out, he could keep the place (social tenancies are for a lifetime) - but they would have to agree, which sounds unlikely.

hi, his priority of course is to be safe,but he loves that house,having done everything from top to bottom,he dont just want to hand it to them,he knows what will happen,the residents at both sides told him to stay,he is well liked,but they are not,maybe a barring order,if granted,will solve it,and ya i dought the partner would move out

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

He and the partner both have rights. The council cannot just extinguish one person's rights, even thought they are engaging in ASB.

What's his priority, staying in the house with alcos, or moving to somewhere that he is safe?

If the partner agreed to move out, he could keep the place (social tenancies are for a lifetime) - but they would have to agree, which sounds unlikely.

if they are engaging in ASB they are probably in breach of the tenancy agreement and can possibly be evicted .

if the partner agreed to move out, he could keep the place (social tenancies are for a lifetime)

the council probably won't allow that. Tenancies are not necessarily for life time they are dependent on the person's circumstance which if the partner and daughter go, and the council are aware of this and /or they go to a council house, will leave him with changed circumstance as one person in a three bed house and the council will probably say he is over accommodated because they will have families seeking housing

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

sniperman wrote: »

yes the council has to agree to any swaps,he just wants to be able to refuse entry to the people they bring back,and not have them coming back drunk and causeing trouble,he evan said he dont care if they stay,as long as he has some peace,thats why he wants to be sole tennent,because as long as the partner is joint tennent,and now the daughter is back,they seem to think they can do what they like,yes he has recently contacted the council acting on advice from the garda,he is waiting for a reply,he is going to try for a barring order now,he cant live like that,no one could,thanks for advice

if he is the joint tenant he should already have a say in who they bring back but so does the other joint tenant. also do the council know the daughter is there? is her income taken into account in the rent? or does the daughter not actually live there full time

sniperman

Dexter Rough Straightjacket wrote: »

if he is the joint tenant he should already have a say in who they bring back but so does the other joint tenant. also do the council know the daughter is there? is her income taken into account in the rent? or does the daughter not actually live there full time

yes they both have say in who comes in,but they do it anyway,he has had to call guards numerous times,yes the council know the daughter is there,she came back from uk after 15 years,both gave their permission for her to stay there,then after all forms were signed the troubles really started,but he has always had problems with the partner for the last 30 years,he went out to the council about 15 years ago and was told,since both are joint tennents,if one gets evicted for what ever reason,then the other one also has to go,hardly fair,im thinking a barring order is the only way,(if granted,)to solve this problem,

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

sniperman wrote: »

yes they both have say in who comes in,but they do it anyway,he has had to call guards numerous times,yes the council know the daughter is there,she came back from uk after 15 years,both gave their permission for her to stay there,then after all forms were signed the troubles really started,but he has always had problems with the partner for the last 30 years,he went out to the council about 15 years ago and was told,since both are joint tennents,if one gets evicted for what ever reason,then the other one also has to go,hardly fair,im thinking a barring order is the only way,(if granted,)to solve this problem,

Well, that changes things you should have said that at the start. Did the council put that in writing? Was his approach to the council in writing and is there a written reply?

He needs to speak to a solicitor as to whether the council can do that. I am not a legal person I don't whether they can or not. No one here can answer that. I do know though that any approach to the council should be in writing and have a written response. Waste of time otherwise

sniperman

Dexter Rough Straightjacket wrote: »

Well, that changes things you should have said that at the start. Did the council put that in writing? Was his approach to the council in writing and is there a written reply?

He needs to speak to a solicitor as to whether the council can do that. I am not a legal person I don't whether they can or not. No one here can answer that. I do know though that any approach to the council should be in writing and have a written response. Waste of time otherwise

for the daughter a form was signed by them both for her to be allowed to reside there,that was it,a letter was then sent saying that although the daughter has permission to live there,she has no legal rights to the property if both parties should pass away,and yes he is seeking legal advice now,thanks for all help

sniperman

thanks to all for replys,i only posted here because i thought there might be a solicitor looking in and offer some input,thanks to all anyway

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

sniperman wrote: »

for the daughter a form was signed by them both for her to be allowed to reside there,that was it,a letter was then sent saying that although the daughter has permission to live there,she has no legal rights to the property if both parties should pass away,and yes he is seeking legal advice now,thanks for all help

that is good to have in writing. Good luck to him

Caranica

sniperman wrote: »

thanks to all for replys,i only posted here because i thought there might be a solicitor looking in and offer some input,thanks to all anyway

Legal advice isn't allowed on here

Hope it all works out for him. Going to a local TD might help to give him more guidance.

sniperman

sniperman wrote: »

for the daughter a form was signed by them both for her to be allowed to reside there,that was it,a letter was then sent saying that although the daughter has permission to live there,she has no legal rights to the property if both parties should pass away,and yes he is seeking legal advice now,thanks for all help

This sounds like a rent inclusion form.

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

Deleted User wrote: »

This sounds like a rent inclusion form.

yes it does

Mrs OBumble

Dexter Rough Straightjacket wrote: »

the council probably won't allow that. Tenancies are not necessarily for life time they are dependent on the person's circumstance which if the partner and daughter go, and the council are aware of this and /or they go to a council house, will leave him with changed circumstance as one person in a three bed house and the council will probably say he is over accommodated because they will have families seeking housing

I do not think that is true in the Republic of Ireland.

It's the way things should work, I agree

But unless it's changed very recently, it's not how they do work. And even if it's changed recently, he signed a lifetime.e tenancy years ago. That cannot be simply undone.

sniperman

sniperman wrote: »

thanks to all for replys,i only posted here because i thought there might be a solicitor looking in and offer some input,thanks to all anyway

Sorry the free advise on the internet hasn't met the standards of professional, paid for advise.

Perhaps then paying a solicitor for their time might be the answer?

sniperman

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Sorry the free advise on the internet hasn't met the standards of professional, paid for advise.

Perhaps then paying a solicitor for their time might be the answer?

as far as i know lots of people turn to the internet for advice/help on a range of topics,and get it from professional people also,when one does not have the money to pay high costs for advice,thought this place might be worth a shot,anyway as from today he is getting legal aid,so he will be ok

rhc2s4lj5p0xu9

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I do not think that is true in the Republic of Ireland.

It's the way things should work, I agree

But unless it's changed very recently, it's not how they do work. And even if it's changed recently, he signed a lifetime.e tenancy years ago. That cannot be simply undone.

He signed a tenancy i am not sure if he signed a lifetime tenancy. I am not sure there is a lifetime tenancy in ireland. Where does it say lifetime in the tenancy agreement you sign?

Anyway even if he did and the council became aware his circumstances changed they could insist he be relocated. In any case the situation is different than i understood when i wrote that in that the council have told him if one goes they both go. Whether they can insist on this i don't know


My friend has a tenancy agreemnt with a council.It lists her responsibilities and what she can and cannot do. A certain amount of pets. No anti social behaviour, her rent that will be due every week etc There is no mention of lifetime. One is obliged to make the council aware of any changed circumstances.

sniperman

sniperman wrote: »

as far as i know lots of people turn to the internet for advice/help on a range of topics,and get it from professional people also,when one does not have the money to pay high costs for advice,thought this place might be worth a shot,anyway as from today he is getting legal aid,so he will be ok

Of course he is.