The decline of the boxing scene...

MouseMan01

Not an avid spectator of boxing fights in general. But do have an interest nonetheless.

It appears to me - as a casual observer that MMA has negatively affected the boxing scene. Most young fighters are into MMA these days.

A couple of examples...

1. The Tyson 'fight' isn't doing the sport any favours. I wouldn't pay to watch Roy Keane marshall a midfield any longer. And I'm not going to watch a geriatric Tyson wheeze around the ring either.

2. Saw about 30 seconds of a 'heavyweight' fight on virgin media sports the other day. Both fighters were carrying at least 20 kg of fat. Poor technique, lazy jabs all over the place. This was a televised fight in front of a stadium full of people. Fighting in that condition must be dangerous IMO.

3. McGregor nearly going the distance with Mayweather didn't look great.MMA fighters aren't known for their staying power I'm believe.

4. Bernard Dunne losing a title fight to a thai boxer who switched codes specifically for the fight didn't lend any credibility to the sport.

5. Not that I'm a MMA fan either. From what I've seen that mostly consists of fighters rolling around on the floor punching each other in the face occasionally.

It appears to be mostly grip strength. Also fights don't seem to last long. Do MMA fighters do much cardio I wonder?

Give me queensbury rules and the art of pugilism anyday. But then again, I'm 42 and still listen to biggie and 2pac, so maybe I'm not 'with it' any longer.

I still remember 'fraudly Harrison' and Lewis getting KO'd by the journeyman.

I watched the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight. Enjoyed it. But couldn't tell you who the heavyweight champ is these days.

Apologies if I've got any of these facts wrong. Like I said. Not an avid spectator any longer.

6. Lastly. Graham Norton labelling the heavy weight champ with some obscure title/belt from NZ the 'king of pies' I believe. Didn't look great either.

normanoffside

MouseMan01 wrote: »

4. Bernard Dunne losing a title fight to a thai boxer who switched codes specifically for the fight didn't lend any credibility to the sport.

Where are you getting this from? The Thai was 38-1 coming into the Dunne fight and Interim Champion/Mandatory challenger.

MouseMan01

normanoffside wrote: »

Where are you getting this from? The Thai was 38-1 coming into the Dunne fight and Interim Champion/Mandatory challenger.

Ah. Sorry. Must have been mistaken then.

I was under the impression he was a thai fighter switching codes.

walshb

MouseMan01 wrote: »

Ah. Sorry. Must have been mistaken then.

I was under the impression he was a thai fighter switching codes.

He did compete in Thai boxing.

And, it wasn’t at all a shock. Dunne was knocked out on 1 rd by Kiko Martin z a few years earlier. His chin was quite weak. The Thai was mandatory challenger who was just too strong..

MouseMan01

walshb wrote: »

He did compete in Thai boxing.

And, it wasn’t at all a shock. Dunne was knocked out on 1 rd by Kiko Martin z a few years earlier. His chin was quite weak. The Thai was mandatory challenger who was just too strong..

Yeah. Caught a few stadium thai fights in Bangkok. Trained with a few thais once.

These guys can't read or write, grow up in the slums. But learn to fight from baby infants.

They are lean, mean and strong. You have to be a serious fighter to make it in the thai boxing scene in Thailand.

Foreign fighters are tame in comparison. Bernard seems like a great ambassador for the sport of boxing though.

Butson

MouseMan01 wrote: »

Not an avid spectator of boxing fights in general. But do have an interest nonetheless.

It appears to me - as a casual observer that MMA has negatively affected the boxing scene. Most young fighters are into MMA these days.

A couple of examples...

1. The Tyson 'fight' isn't doing the sport any favours. I wouldn't pay to watch Roy Keane marshall a midfield any longer. And I'm not going to watch a geriatric Tyson wheeze around the ring either.

2. Saw about 30 seconds of a 'heavyweight' fight on virgin media sports the other day. Both fighters were carrying at least 20 kg of fat. Poor technique, lazy jabs all over the place. This was a televised fight in front of a stadium full of people. Fighting in that condition must be dangerous IMO.

3. McGregor nearly going the distance with Mayweather didn't look great.MMA fighters aren't known for their staying power I'm believe.

4. Bernard Dunne losing a title fight to a thai boxer who switched codes specifically for the fight didn't lend any credibility to the sport.

5. Not that I'm a MMA fan either. From what I've seen that mostly consists of fighters rolling around on the floor punching each other in the face occasionally.

It appears to be mostly grip strength. Also fights don't seem to last long. Do MMA fighters do much cardio I wonder?

Give me queensbury rules and the art of pugilism anyday. But then again, I'm 42 and still listen to biggie and 2pac, so maybe I'm not 'with it' any longer.

I still remember 'fraudly Harrison' and Lewis getting KO'd by the journeyman.

I watched the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight. Enjoyed it. But couldn't tell you who the heavyweight champ is these days.

Apologies if I've got any of these facts wrong. Like I said. Not an avid spectator any longer.

6. Lastly. Graham Norton labelling the heavy weight champ with some obscure title/belt from NZ the 'king of pies' I believe. Didn't look great either.

A few things going on in the boxing scene as far as I see it.
Too many belts, too many sanctioning bodies, too many TV broadcasters involved.
You mention MMA. Any research on this from America shows that they are actually two very different audiences. There is little to no crossover in the support of the two sports. But if you look at MMA - its essentially one company in UFC running the whole show. Best fight the best because the fights get made by Dana White. One TV broadcaster in the America, one in UK. One UFC Facebook account, twitter account, Instagram account. So much easier to market the fighters and the product.

With Boxing, we have 4 sanctioning bodies. Potentially 4 different champions in each weight class.
Some fights are on Sky, some on BT, others on Dazn, Fox, ESPN, Showtime....the list goes on.
But, the biggest difference is in Boxing the fighters are essentially self employed. The will fight a particular person if and when they want to. For that reason, added to the different promoter and broadcast interest, we often don't see the best fight the best. Also, if you look at some of the biggest boxers of the last generation....GGG, Canelo etc...don't really speak English.

But....still taking all the above into account Boxing is still the bigger sport globally. When Fury and Joshua fight it will be a truly global event and most sports fans will know who the Heavyweight champ of the world is.

generalgerry

walshb wrote: »

He did compete in Thai boxing. And, it wasn’t at all a shock. Dunne was knocked out on 1 rd by Kiko Martin z a few years earlier. His chin was quite weak. The Thai was mandatory challenger who was just too strong..

He was one tough SOB that lad. And remember that Kiko has been beaten many times since, and he knocked out Dunne in one round.

Mjolnir

MouseMan01 wrote: »

Not an avid spectator of boxing fights in general. But do have an interest nonetheless.

It appears to me - as a casual observer that MMA has negatively affected the boxing scene. Most young fighters are into MMA these days.

A couple of examples...

1. The Tyson 'fight' isn't doing the sport any favours. I wouldn't pay to watch Roy Keane marshall a midfield any longer. And I'm not going to watch a geriatric Tyson wheeze around the ring either.

2. Saw about 30 seconds of a 'heavyweight' fight on virgin media sports the other day. Both fighters were carrying at least 20 kg of fat. Poor technique, lazy jabs all over the place. This was a televised fight in front of a stadium full of people. Fighting in that condition must be dangerous IMO.

3. McGregor nearly going the distance with Mayweather didn't look great.MMA fighters aren't known for their staying power I'm believe.

4. Bernard Dunne losing a title fight to a thai boxer who switched codes specifically for the fight didn't lend any credibility to the sport.

5. Not that I'm a MMA fan either. From what I've seen that mostly consists of fighters rolling around on the floor punching each other in the face occasionally.

It appears to be mostly grip strength. Also fights don't seem to last long. Do MMA fighters do much cardio I wonder?

Give me queensbury rules and the art of pugilism anyday. But then again, I'm 42 and still listen to biggie and 2pac, so maybe I'm not 'with it' any longer.

I still remember 'fraudly Harrison' and Lewis getting KO'd by the journeyman.

I watched the Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight. Enjoyed it. But couldn't tell you who the heavyweight champ is these days.

Apologies if I've got any of these facts wrong. Like I said. Not an avid spectator any longer.

6. Lastly. Graham Norton labelling the heavy weight champ with some obscure title/belt from NZ the 'king of pies' I believe. Didn't look great either.

It's referred to as thai boxing for a reason. Thai's tend to kick more than punch because the scoring system rewards effective kicks more than punchs. Thai's use punch to set up their kicks but you better believe they can punch. Thai's are taught to box but it's not their sport and has a different stance and scoring system.

It's called wrestling and jiu jitsu and 15 to 25 minutes of it is much more energy draining. Far from grip strength. An mma fight is much more physically demanding especially when fighting a wrestler.

Depends on the fighter some have better cardio than boxers some less so. It also depends on factors like are they, wrestling, kick boxing, boxing, doing jiu jitsu and the fighter genetics. It takes more energy to throw a kick than a punch. Performing a take down or defending one and trying to get back to your feet is incredibly energy intensive.

Boxing has long been on the decline, well known to be political and corrupt.
Too many belts and too much ducking how long did mayweather manny take to get made?

Fat isn't metabolically active tissue, two fighter at the same weight, one 10% bf, one 20% bf. Let's say both have similar cardio, the 10% fighter is using more energy because his muscles require it. Fat doesn't require the use of energy but is stored energy. The 20% fighter with great cardio doesn't need to use as much energy to use the same mass because his lower percentage of muscle mass requires less oxygen and energy.

In boxing the undefeated status is too coveted and anyone with a loss basically loses the majority of their worth to promoters. Too many young talented men took an L and got tossed aside despite the potential.

Jake Paul and logan Paul (enough said)

Not many bar the casuals expected Mayweather v mcgregor to end in a quick ko. Mcgregor wasn't a boxer and mayweather is a defensive boxer. Yes arguably the greatest defensive boxer but you get my point it was never going to end in the first 3.

Heavy weight was once the pinnacle of the sport now its mainly just fury and aj in the spot light.

Don't even get me started on the whole champ vs lineal champ thing.

Bobby Baccala

Mjolnir wrote: »

It's referred to as thai boxing for a reason. Thai's tend to kick more than punch because the scoring system rewards effective kicks more than punchs. Thai's use punch to set up their kicks but you better believe they can punch. Thai's are taught to box but it's not their sport and has a different stance and scoring system.

It's called wrestling and jiu jitsu and 15 to 25 minutes of it is much more energy draining. Far from grip strength. An mma fight is much more physically demanding especially when fighting a wrestler.

Depends on the fighter some have better cardio than boxers some less so. It also depends on factors like are they, wrestling, kick boxing, boxing, doing jiu jitsu and the fighter genetics. It takes more energy to throw a kick than a punch. Performing a take down or defending one and trying to get back to your feet is incredibly energy intensive.

Boxing has long been on the decline, well known to be political and corrupt.
Too many belts and too much ducking how long did mayweather manny take to get made?

Fat isn't metabolically active tissue, two fighter at the same weight, one 10% bf, one 20% bf. Let's say both have similar cardio, the 10% fighter is using more energy because his muscles require it. Fat doesn't require the use of energy but is stored energy. The 20% fighter with great cardio doesn't need to use as much energy to use the same mass because his lower percentage of muscle mass requires less oxygen and energy.

In boxing the undefeated status is too coveted and anyone with a loss basically loses the majority of their worth to promoters. Too many young talented men took an L and got tossed aside despite the potential.

Jake Paul and logan Paul (enough said)

Not many bar the casuals expected Mayweather v mcgregor to end in a quick ko. Mcgregor wasn't a boxer and mayweather is a defensive boxer. Yes arguably the greatest defensive boxer but you get my point it was never going to end in the first 3.

Heavy weight was once the pinnacle of the sport now its mainly just fury and aj in the spot light.

Don't even get me started on the whole champ vs lineal champ thing.

Having trained mma and boxing at the same time I couldn’t agree with you any less. Always found boxing way more intense than mma, the rest of your post reads like armchair opinions pulled of Twitter.

I’d say you’ve hitten the bag a few times alright bud but it’s not a boxing bag :pac:

Mjolnir

Bobby Baccala wrote: »

Having trained mma and boxing at the same time I couldn’t agree with you any less. Always found boxing way more intense than mma, the rest of your post reads like armchair opinions pulled of Twitter.

I’d say you’ve hitten the bag a few times alright bud but it’s not a boxing bag :pac:

I've trained K1, muay thai, jiu jitsu, wrestling and a bit of boxing. You found boxing more intense than bjj? Jesus your one of the few humans alive so.
Not a huge fan of boxing from a viewing perspective, if ya stick on tyson era back I'll happily watch.

And no I've never taken a drug in my life thanks.