Cost of Gutting/Renovating an Old House

DubLad69

Hi,

We are looking to buy a house, we were going for a new build. But have found a house that is 85 years old, thats twice the size with a huge garden and privacy for much cheaper.

The house is 230sqm, and the house looks like it hasnt been updated since the 60's. Assuming that the piping and wiring in the house is done how much should we expect to spend to gut/renovate the entire house?

We are looking to do it as a project over the course of a year or two and we will have a significant amount of time to do lots of work for ourselves. We have carpenters and electricians in the family so should save a lot of money there. But assuming we are doing a lot of the DIYable jobs ourselves and paying full for the rest of the house. How much should we expect to pay to renovate a house that size/age?

Are we mad to get ourselves into that situation?

SuperSean11

Mad

P2C

Depends on what you want to do in relation to energy efficiency improvements or deep retrofit and what type of finishes you want. Also a house of that age may need structural work. If you have an idea of the spec you could get a QS to give you as estimation on costs that may help with choices you make or keep you on track

quote="DubLad69;116460566"]Hi,

We are looking to buy a house, we were going for a new build. But have found a house that is 85 years old, thats twice the size with a huge garden and privacy for much cheaper.

The house is 230sqm, and the house looks like it hasnt been updated since the 60's. Assuming that the piping and wiring in the house is done how much should we expect to spend to gut/renovate the entire house?

We are looking to do it as a project over the course of a year or two and we will have a significant amount of time to do lots of work for ourselves. We have carpenters and electricians in the family so should save a lot of money there. But assuming we are doing a lot of the DIYable jobs ourselves and paying full for the rest of the house. How much should we expect to pay to renovate a house that size/age?

Are we mad to get ourselves into that situation?[/quote]

Effects

DubLad69 wrote: »

We have carpenters and electricians in the family so should save a lot of money there.

How close are they? Nobody really works for free, do they?
An electrician is still going to have to spend a lot of time wiring your house.
Same goes for carpenters I'd imagine.

listermint

50 grand

100 grand

400 grand


There is no stock answer. None. You'll have to ask someone qualified that has actually first seen the house and second knows what you want to achieve with your renovations.

It's an impossible question on the internet .

DubLad69

Effects wrote: »

How close are they? Nobody really works for free, do they?
An electrician is still going to have to spend a lot of time wiring your house.
Same goes for carpenters I'd imagine.

Extremely close. As in they actually would do it for free. But I'm planning for paying full price for everything just just be safe.

I know that there is no one size fits all cost for something like this, but we are preceding on the basis that there are no structural issues. Windows recently replaced and initially won't be putting to much into BER etc.

Even as I am saying all of this, I know that someone can't give me a price. Just looking for people's thoughts.

hurleronditch

Very hard to say how much really.

We have renovated in stages, a few things I’d suggest.

Just bite the bullet and get your electrics and plumbing done day 1 before you move in. The dirt, dust and upheaval are torturous, and you just need to get them done and make your peace with it. A house that size to be rewired from scratch is probably going to be a minimum of €10k for a basic modern fit kit with sufficient sockets and simple pendants in rooms. It would probably need a minimum of 20 “man days” (apologies for the sexism). You might have an electrician in the family who will pop over on a Tuesday night and rewire a light fitting in exchange for a plate of dinner but to get that big a job done will be a huge undertaking for anyone. The plumbing is similar, and within reason the two could and should be fitted close together, as both require the house to be pulled apart and putting it together once and cleaning all the fupping dust is easier.

After that all I’ll say is it’s a massive massive undertaking. Full gut reno of a 230sqm house from scratch would be well well into 6 figures from a contractor, so even if you make savings doing it peace meal yourself, it’s going to be a huge huge project.

Effects

Also depends a lot on what level of work you can do yourself to be honest.
The bad thing is that you pick up the skills as you do the work, and you might be learning on your own home.
I do a lot of DIY stuff myself, but I'm very picky, and it takes more time that if I was paying someone.
I only just got the wardrobe finished in my spare room, three years after moving into the house!

Ginger83

DubLad69 wrote: »

Extremely close. As in they actually would do it for free. But I'm planning for paying full price for everything just just be safe.

I know that there is no one size fits all cost for something like this, but we are preceding on the basis that there are no structural issues. Windows recently replaced and initially won't be putting to much into BER etc.

Even as I am saying all of this, I know that someone can't give me a price. Just looking for people's thoughts.

I renovated an old school into our home.
I didn't use a QS and did a lot of the work myself.

If I had to do it again I would involve a QS and Surveyor but I would do it again in a heartbeat. It's not for everyone though.

DubLad69

Ginger83 wrote: »

I renovated an old school into our home.
I didn't use a QS and did a lot of the work myself.

If I had to do it again I would involve a QS and Surveyor but I would do it again in a heartbeat. It's not for everyone though.

Being an old school house, was it a protected structure? Did that cause much additional stress/costs?

Ginger83

DubLad69 wrote: »

Being an old school house, was it a protected structure? Did that cause much additional stress/costs?

It was stripped back to four walls with new roof, new upstairs floor, new wiring and plumbing etc.

Calahonda52

Be some very nice B of I bank branches for sale now which occupy fine locations in most towns

FileNotFound

Location will be as big an issue on price as anything.

Did our gaff a few years back, smaller and lots of favours etc.

4 bed semi detached in Dublin, New electrics, plumbing, internal insulation, attic conversion, windows (pvc double glaze install), flooring etc. All in for 100k - lots of work on our part. Not sure what kind of guide this is as the brother in Mayo could do way more for less.

No extensions etc, and no major problems found

Pete_Lee

There are so many variables here. We are in the process of renovating an old house (approx 160 years old). It's only about 60m2. 45m2 is the old part of the house which needed to be internally stripped back to the stone, lime washed, new floors etc. The 1960's cavity block extension needed to be internally slabbed, new floor, kitchen etc. We did the vast majority of the work ourselves (no experience in relevant fields) and we'll be all in for 20k.

BUT what we find acceptable and comfortable may not be comfortable for you. We are happy to embrace the age of the house and not hide it's crooked walls etc. We also know that allowing it's walls to breath is more important right now than covering them with insulation. The important thing is to decide what you would be happy with and base your estimations around that. We estimated 17k but as we were stripping out ceilings etc, we decided to rewire and get a lot of plumbing work done while everything was open hence the overspend.

If you do the vast majority yourself and have friends/family willing to help out and are happy with a not perfect type of finish - you could probably get in for 50k. From there the only way is up!

Ginger83

Pete_Lee wrote: »

There are so many variables here. We are in the process of renovating an old house (approx 160 years old). It's only about 60m2. 45m2 is the old part of the house which needed to be internally stripped back to the stone, lime washed, new floors etc. The 1960's cavity block extension needed to be internally slabbed, new floor, kitchen etc. We did the vast majority of the work ourselves (no experience in relevant fields) and we'll be all in for 20k.

BUT what we find acceptable and comfortable may not be comfortable for you. We are happy to embrace the age of the house and not hide it's crooked walls etc. We also know that allowing it's walls to breath is more important right now than covering them with insulation. The important thing is to decide what you would be happy with and base your estimations around that. We estimated 17k but as we were stripping out ceilings etc, we decided to rewire and get a lot of plumbing work done while everything was open hence the overspend.

If you do the vast majority yourself and have friends/family willing to help out and are happy with a not perfect type of finish - you could probably get in for 50k. From there the only way is up!

Hi what type of stone?
Any history of the house?

Pete_Lee

Ginger83 wrote: »

Hi what type of stone?
Any history of the house?

Hi,

The house is built from Granite. There was some really beautiful stonework hidden behind all the plasterboard and cement.

We don't know the full history although it had been in the same family since at least 1901 (census records). We are semi-detached but the two houses overlap which makes me think they were originally built as one house before being split in two at some point.

Ginger83

Pete_Lee wrote: »

Hi,

The house is built from Granite. There was some really beautiful stonework hidden behind all the plasterboard and cement.

We don't know the full history although it had been in the same family since at least 1901 (census records). We are semi-detached but the two houses overlap which makes me think they were originally built as one house before being split in two at some point.

It's great to keep these buildings and preserve them. You'd be surprised what stories locals would have.

Our home was a single storey thatched limestone school built around 1820 and closed in the 1950s. A second storey was built around 1870 so the upstairs could be used as a church.

Pete_Lee

Ginger83 wrote: »

It's great to keep these buildings and preserve them. You'd be surprised what stories locals would have.

Our home was a single storey thatched limestone school built around 1820 and closed in the 1950s. A second storey was built around 1870 so the upstairs could be used as a church.

Wow, I'd say thats a labour of love! Yes, details have been relatively patchy from Neighbours. It had been rented out for years before we bought it so the local connection to it has subsided massively. We do know that a woman ran a shop from the sitting room of it at some point. We will certainly keep digging and see what other info we can get.

Pete

GreeBo

I got a quote of 1M to renovate a similar sized and age house in Dublin, it would be much cheaper for us to knock and rebuild, but that would obviously defeat the point in your scenario.

As others have said, its going to be very difficult to maintain the features but also modernize the house, for example external insulation wont be possible for you, though also neither will internal, since you will lose any existing plasterwork.

DubLad69

We got a few prices for bits of the work. We were hoping to do it for under €150,000. But it doesn't seem possible without breaking the law regarding protected structures.

So we are back to buying a new build now.

OKfairenough

Hi, can you give an approximation of quotes received? I'm also just starting out on te house hunt and would rather an older house for the larger site but massive variations in what i'm hearing for renovation costs. Your will be most up to date! Thanks.

peterofthebr

Hi can I ask a Q on this

I've a old house (used for storage) it needs work, trying to grt an idea of how much would it cost to grt below done:

• It needs new doors/ windows. Basic would do (doesn't need to be double glazed), some of the old windows are about to fall out
• Considering removing slates and replace lats and install sheeting /cladding I'd like to keep the 2 chimneys also.. , remove nests, fill cracks and put covers on them
• Replace very old ceramic fuse board, afraid it might go on fire. Basic rewriting for existing rooms and replace sockets.

The old farm house was in the early osi maps. Not lived in since 1970s. Very damp. But was looking to do it up just enough to keep it from getting worse. It does not have heating or bathroom which is fine. It's approx

Based in north midlands..approx size is 920sq ft

Thanks in advance

GreeBo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123062449#Comment_123062449

Is the plan to keep it used for storage or make it habitable? If you want to live in it then you bring in all the building regs. If its a storage barn then you have different targets to meet.

Its much cheaper to gut the house and fix the roof, walls, pipes and plumbing and leave it as a water tight, services upgraded shell than it is to try and keep or replace internal walls, plasterboard, flooring etc.

Windows and doors costs come down to how many of each you have and what spec.

peterofthebr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123066319#Comment_123066319

Hi GreeBo,

The plan is to use it as storage (not habitable). plaster  on the second floor has fallen off (along where the fireplace is - due to water coming down over the years). windows are wooden sash windows 12 in all. Some of the fireplaces are all full of twigs from years of bird nests falling down. roof slates come off during storms and I push /wedge them back up. its an old stone house.  i'm likely going to remove slates and replace with cladding, understand some of the purlins and some rafters would need to be replaced. if i can get something that looks like slates maybe (link below is a random example) and keep the chimney. it might look okay from the outside.

eg: https://www.gusclad.ie/products/slate-effect-cladding/ not bothering with insulation.

GreeBo

OK, so it sounds very much like you are keeping it as a shed.

As such I wouldnt worry too much about how it looks, but how it performs.

Assuming that at some point in the future you will be a "proper" renovation, I would tackle to roof by:

1. remove existing slates (stack them somewhere if they are in any way decent, you could sell or reuse later)
2. Replace any rotten timber, probably at least some battens and any valleys you might have. Also around the chimney sounds like it would likely have issues.
3. Depending on the state of it, the chimney stack itself might need repairs, it might be as cost effective to take it down altogether, but that itself might expose issues with gable walls etc.
4. Corrugated roof sheeting to replace the tiles, ideally with a roofing membrane beneath it.

Whats the building type? Is it stone cottage or cavity block for example?

The windows can be replaced cheaply with polycarbonate if its just a storage shed, a basic wooden frame, poly sheet and then beads to keep the sheet in. Depending on the window opening size this could be effective and cheap. If the opes are wide then you would need thicker poly which will increase costs (otherwise the window can deflect a lot)

For any doors just get the cheapest PVC door you can.

You didn't mention flooring, but if the house has damp you should check what's going on with the floor, assuming its suspended timber floor then you need to check any external vents and ensure that they are not blocked, also check that crap hasn't built up beside the external walls that is higher than the vents or the DPC.

If you gut the interior (basically pull down all the plasterboard and lift the flooring) then it will make any wiring and plumbing cheaper as its easier to run.

This will also allow you to confirm the state of the flooring joists (again assuming suspended floor) and help the house to dry out.

You need to find the balance between making it weather tight, has ventilation but also keeping birds and animals out.

Dublin, assuming you could get someone, you are probably in the region of 30K before you add in windows/doors, but you could see considerable savings if you do some of the grunt work yourself, I have no idea of midlands prices :)

rowantree18

I had a house which needed a full renovation. I'd returned to Ireland from abroad and hadn't realised how much ofca renovation it needed. In 2017 I was quoted 250k for 135sq metres, no extension etc . Rewire, replumb, new gas boiler and rads, flooring throughout, new kitchen and bathroom. I'd say you could double that easily now. I'd honestly say you'd be 500k easily.

I sold for good money, bought a new A rated house in an area I could now never afford. It's really comfortable and warm consistently. I know a lot of people go for character etc, but you need to spend a fortune to get warmth and dryness into n old house. So think about what's really important to you before spending. The other thing is, do you really want a huge garden - I've a garden but because I live in a nice spot I'm out all the time when free and never sit in the garden. Think about your lifestyle before committing to a huge project. It might be right for you, it might not.

dbas

Ecological building systems have good info on their website. Think they have YouTube channel too.

Nzeb retrofit courses are free in different locations in Ireland too just so you learn the high level issues involved in retrofit

https://www.ecologicalbuildingsystems.com/solutions/renovation-retrofit

NattyO

It's a bit of a "how long is a piece of string" question, because it depends on so many variables, does the roof need replacing, and can you reuse the slates, or will you have to buy a lot of new ones, are the walls structurally sound, are the internal floor joists ok, etc. etc.

To give you an idea, a family member of mine was living in a 150 year old farmhouse for a few years, and decided to renovate it. They used professionals for all the work, other than "grunt" work, such as labouring, chasing, stripping of plaster and slates, etc. which they did themselves, and finished it to a decent standard - for instance, they had to completely rebuild the roof structure, but were able to reuse the natural stone slates, and had to buy very few replacements. The structure, including all internal first fix carpentry was fine, other than minor repairs, and nearly all internal second fix carpentry was removed, stripped, repaired, and reused where possible. They had to replace all the windows, and went with new (but sympathetic) windows, as repairing the old windows was hugely expensive. Obviously it required all plumbing, wiring, internal plastering and decoration, insulation (there had been none!), and they also knocked and rebuilt a very small extension that had been built in the 1950's. The total cost came to around €130/sqft. which worked out at much less than the cost of building a new house in the same area.

GreeBo

I think its important to note that they OP isn't even looking for "Builders Finish" or even a habitable dwelling, so savings will be huge without boarding and plastering, painting etc.