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outfarm wifi

  • 02-03-2021 11:53pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    Hi, I want to setup an Internet connection and cctv on an outfarm.
    I have no electricity so I want to use solar if possible. The load is 30 - 35 watts constant.
    Would a 200w panel and 60ah battery keep this working year round?
    If not can anyone suggest what I would need instead please?
    Thank you.


Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,833 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Would a 200w panel and 60ah battery keep this working year round?

    No. Nowhere near enough.

    Your 200W panel in one of the better areas of Ireland, like Dublin or the South East, pure south facing, would generate 200kWh per year
    Your load is 0.035kW * 24h * 365 = 306kWh per year

    So no matter how big your battery and even if the sun would give equal power every single day of the year, it would not be enough. And that doesn't take into account losses which would be substantial if you are using a (12V?) battery and an AC inverter

    You will need several panels even to keep you going through summer. And in winter, is it an option to regularly swap the near empty battery for a full one?

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18


    Hi, I want to setup an Internet connection and cctv on an outfarm.
    I have no electricity so I want to use solar if possible. The load is 30 - 35 watts constant.
    Would a 200w panel and 60ah battery keep this working year round?
    If not can anyone suggest what I would need instead please?
    Thank you.

    Why is the load so high? Are you planning on a few cameras?
    A camera with 4g on board wouldn't be more than 12w at most, less during the day


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    Why is the load so high? Are you planning on a few cameras? A camera with 4g on board wouldn't be more than 12w at most, less during the day


    The camera is 15w and the Internet dongle is 10w. I wanted to over estimate the load a little. 25w is probably total load but I didn't want to be on the hairy edge. Should I size it to the exact load with no excess


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    unkel wrote:
    So no matter how big your battery and even if the sun would give equal power every single day of the year, it would not be enough. And that doesn't take into account losses which would be substantial if you are using a (12V?) battery and an AC inverter


    There is no Inverter. Just planning on a panel, charge controller if needed, battery, Internet dongle and camera.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 58,833 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    There is no Inverter. Just planning on a panel, charge controller if needed, battery, Internet dongle and camera.

    Are those internet dongle and camera DC appliances that run directly off the battery?

    So what battery are you getting, 12V? What type? Link to it? You realise that if it is lead acid, you can only use half the capacity? And it would need to be fully charged at least about once a week or it will have a very short life?

    And you didn't answer my other question either about if it is possible to go on site in winter on a regular basis and swap the battery for a full one. We want to help you here, but you're not helping yourself.

    "Wind is Ireland's oil" - An Taoiseach, 25/05/2022



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18


    The camera is 15w and the Internet dongle is 10w. I wanted to over estimate the load a little. 25w is probably total load but I didn't want to be on the hairy edge. Should I size it to the exact load with no excess

    What internet dongle are you using? If be extremely surprised if it's 10w continuous draw, it would be running very hot if that was the case. Similarly for the camera, maybe 15w at night and transmitting images, but not in standby.

    What is the purpose of the camera? Stock monitoring or security. If it's for stock monitoring then it doesn't need to be transmitting all the time, so again draw will be lower.

    In any case, refining the numbers will likely only get you down to say 12w average continuous. Based on teagasc figures a 200w panel will put out 175kwh per year here and a 12w system will need 105ish kWh per year. Great you say 105 goes into 175, I'm golden. But hold on! You need to size the system for the worst case, not the average case.

    We get between 1 and 2hrs sunshine on average during the dullest months of the year, December. So ignoring output from diffused light you can expect say 0.3kwh per day from your panel in winter on average, but at worst let's say half that, 0.15kwh. You need 0.3kwh per day to run your 12w system without running into the reserve /night battery during the day. I would therefore double the size of the solar array.

    As for the size of the battery, deep cycle lead acid batteries are really only meant to be used to 50% a 65ah 12v battery is 0.78kwh, really only enough to power the 12W system for a day long term before it damages the battery. For a long lasting system you'd need two or three times the backup battery capacity in order to get you through dull days. Even then you may occasionally need to top them up on mains off there are long dull periods or dull periods come in quick succession before charge can recover.

    So in summary you'll need to look closely at power draw and look to get that as low as absolutely possible. That may mean choosing a different camera and internet module that's more electrically efficient and increasing the overall size of the pv system.


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    unkel wrote:
    Are those internet dongle and camera DC appliances that run directly off the battery?

    I was going to use a car usb charger the type that would get plugged into a 12v lighter outlet. The camera and dongle have USB cables to charge them
    unkel wrote:
    So what battery are you getting, 12V? What type? Link to it? You realise that if it is lead acid, you can only use half the capacity? And it would need to be fully charged at least about once a week or it will have a very short life?

    I have 5x 12v lead acid batteries 17ah the same as this one

    amazon.co.uk/dp/B002Y2LRJA/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_fabc_FTHNEKXJF5MVQAB038NJ

    I could also go for this or something similar if that would make life easier?

    amazon.co.uk/dp/B08MBWB2PF/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_fabc_XAKR1FN2FWZW9ZDXVQ9J
    unkel wrote:
    And you didn't answer my other question either about if it is possible to go on site in winter on a regular basis and swap the battery for a full one. We want to help you here, but you're not helping yourself.

    I will have access to the site year round but but the less need to go the better. I would love if it disnt need any action from me but that may not be possible.

    I appreciate the help here greatly


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    As for the size of the battery, deep cycle lead acid batteries are really only meant to be used to 50% a 65ah 12v battery is 0.78kwh, really only enough to power the 12W system for a day long term before it damages the battery. For a long lasting system you'd need two or three times the backup battery capacity in order to get you through dull days. Even then you may occasionally need to top them up on mains off there are long dull periods or dull periods come in quick succession before charge can recover.

    Would the battery in the previous post work here or would two be needed? Also I would need to upside the solar panel?
    So in summary you'll need to look closely at power draw and look to get that as low as absolutely possible. That may mean choosing a different camera and internet module that's more electrically efficient and increasing the overall size of the pv system.

    Does a charge controller use much power also? One would be needed?
    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    As for the size of the battery, deep cycle lead acid batteries are really only meant to be used to 50% a 65ah 12v battery is 0.78kwh, really only enough to power the 12W system for a day long term before it damages the battery. For a long lasting system you'd need two or three times the backup battery capacity in order to get you through dull days. Even then you may occasionally need to top them up on mains off there are long dull periods or dull periods come in quick succession before charge can recover.

    Would the battery in the previous post work here or would two be needed? Also I would need to upside the solar panel?
    So in summary you'll need to look closely at power draw and look to get that as low as absolutely possible. That may mean choosing a different camera and internet module that's more electrically efficient and increasing the overall size of the pv system.

    Does a charge controller use much power also? One would be needed?
    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18


    Would the battery in the previous post work here or would two be needed? Also I would need to upside the solar panel?



    Does a charge controller use much power also? One would be needed?
    Thanks

    There will be some parasitic draw from the charge controller but to my knowledge the average consumption for these devices is very low.

    Whether you need to upsize the panel depends on the use case. If you want continuous recording, yes. If you just want to check in only occasionally, perhaps to monitor a sick animal or a cow that's close to calving I'd go for a 4g solar integrated CCTV. These have li-ion batteries built in as well as small top up solar. The batteries are big enough to keep them in standby for a year and they only really draw substantial power when they're being remotely accessed.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    Hi
    Would this panel help me? And also the battery below?

    offgridkit.ie/product/ja-solar-340w-mono-mbb-percium-half-cell-black-frame-mc4/

    amazon.co.uk/dp/B08MBWB2PF/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_fabc_XAKR1FN2FWZW9ZDXVQ9J

    And a 20a MPPT controller.

    I could have a spare battery for swapping but ideally it would be self sufficient

    I cant seem to get the links to post so I have to take the ww's away.
    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,743 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18


    Hi
    Would this panel help me? And also the battery below?

    offgridkit.ie/product/ja-solar-340w-mono-mbb-percium-half-cell-black-frame-mc4/

    amazon.co.uk/dp/B08MBWB2PF/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_fabc_XAKR1FN2FWZW9ZDXVQ9J

    And a 20a MPPT controller.

    I could have a spare battery for swapping but ideally it would be self sufficient

    I cant seem to get the links to post so I have to take the ww's away.
    Thanks

    I can't really comment on the size of the controller, but you are approaching a sustainable solution if you can get your load down. The panel looks decent, but I still think you need up on 400w imo.

    There are so many variables in this that no one really can guarantee it will work unless you really oversize it. You may need to take a suck it and see approach to both the size of the panels and the battery, through monitoring of charge and discharge rates over a winter in particular.


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    I can't really comment on the size of the controller, but you are approaching a sustainable solution if you can get your load down. The panel looks decent, but I still think you need up on 400w imo.


    There looks to be cheap 100w panels that could be added to the 340w bringing me 440w. Ill maybe buy and try it out here at the house first so I can check it more regularly


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    I was looking at a 400w wind turbines a little over 100 euro. I know it's hard to.estimate the wind energy but ot may be an option to help the whole setup rather than increasing battery and solar as much bigger cost. Any opinions on this? Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 815 ✭✭✭ studdlymurphy


    This was the kit I was looking at. ebay.co.uk/itm/142967031147


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,128 ✭✭✭ Ubbquittious


    Hi
    Would this panel help me? And also the battery below?

    offgridkit.ie/product/ja-solar-340w-mono-mbb-percium-half-cell-black-frame-mc4/

    amazon.co.uk/dp/B08MBWB2PF/ref=cm_sw_r_wa_apa_fabc_XAKR1FN2FWZW9ZDXVQ9J

    And a 20a MPPT controller.

    I could have a spare battery for swapping but ideally it would be self sufficient

    I cant seem to get the links to post so I have to take the ww's away.
    Thanks




    I would not bother buying one of those batteries from UK. Plenty of people selling deep cycle lead acid batteries over here

    Stellantis: All the sh1t brands under one roof



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