Leash training and barking issues

KazDub

Hi,
We adopted a 2 year old dog recently from a rescue. She seems to have had very little or no training on a leash. She pulls very hard all the time and despite being on a harness, still makes herself breathless. We suspect maybe she's only used to being off-leash as the pulling turns into a strong urge for her to get into a run instead of walking.
We had her out at a busy public park for the first time and she went berserk barking. We had to keep away from busy areas and keep her moving, otherwise the barking started up again. I didn't appear to be a vicious reaction, maybe just an overwhelmed one.
With Covid it looks like dog training is only available online. Has anyone any experience of this? I don't understand how a Zoom call would work. One Dublin based Society offers Zoom sessions so I'm trying to get a feel for how beneficial they might be in that format before contacting them. Any experience or insight much appreciated. She's an absolutely gorgeous dog but currently our kids can't walk her and we can't bring her out to busy public areas, so we need to get working with her urgently.

jellybear

Firstly, well done on being so proactive and looking for help with your new fur baby

There are a few threads like this, based on reactive dogs, so I've just copied a reply I wrote in one of them. It might be of some help

'I'd highly recommend Orla Doherty https://www.animalbehaviourclinic.ie.

We did online training with her in August and the difference in our reactive dog is just amazing. It's hard work and you need to be ready to change your and the dog's way of doing things but honestly, we haven't looked back. My lurcher is 5 and a half so I thought he'd never be able to change his reactive behaviour but there's been a huge improvement. We continue to work on it daily, you have to in order to see and maintain results, but I can't tell you the difference it has made. Walks are actually becoming enjoyable now where as I used to dread them and be a nervous wreck, which he could sense, but with the right training strategies Milo and I are both more comfortable. A large portion of the cost is covered by Allianz, if you're insured with them. I don't know about other insurers. Wishing you a the best. The first step is recognising something has to change so well done for doing that. Also, feel free to PM me with any questions if you want.'

VonVix

KazDub wrote: »

Hi,
We adopted a 2 year old dog recently from a rescue. She seems to have had very little or no training on a leash. She pulls very hard all the time and despite being on a harness, still makes herself breathless. We suspect maybe she's only used to being off-leash as the pulling turns into a strong urge for her to get into a run instead of walking.
We had her out at a busy public park for the first time and she went berserk barking. We had to keep away from busy areas and keep her moving, otherwise the barking started up again. I didn't appear to be a vicious reaction, maybe just an overwhelmed one.
With Covid it looks like dog training is only available online. Has anyone any experience of this? I don't understand how a Zoom call would work. One Dublin based Society offers Zoom sessions so I'm trying to get a feel for how beneficial they might be in that format before contacting them. Any experience or insight much appreciated. She's an absolutely gorgeous dog but currently our kids can't walk her and we can't bring her out to busy public areas, so we need to get working with her urgently.

I'm not a big fan of zoom-type training, it can offer an owner some good solid advice, however it doesn't offer much in terms of being able to observe how a dog is behaving. It relies fairly heavily on accurate information being given by an owner and it's very easy for people to misinterpret why their dog is behaving the way they are and not being aware of what triggers may be around the dog.

What breed is she? Some breeds are a bit more prone to being bananas when on leash, for example Springer Spaniels.

How long have you had her for? Does the harness clip on her back or her chest?

Have you done any basic training at home (Kikopup is a great trainer you can find on Youtube if you want ideas to get started on), such as teaching sit/wait/down/etc to help build a bond and some groundwork for training?

KazDub

VonVix wrote: »

What breed is she? Some breeds are a bit more prone to being bananas when on leash, for example Springer Spaniels.

How long have you had her for? Does the harness clip on her back or her chest?

Have you done any basic training at home (Kikopup is a great trainer you can find on Youtube if you want ideas to get started on), such as teaching sit/wait/down/etc to help build a bond and some groundwork for training?

She's a Collie crossed possibly with something like a lurcher, we don't know.
Whoever had her before has taught her to sit and wait for her harness to be put on and when being fed, so she's not completely without training. She may have been a rural dog though which could account for her reaction to the park environment
We'll have her 1 week tomorrow, so early days still.
She has a harness which clips across her back. A relative is singing the praises of something called a Sensitivity harness, but I'm not sure if that would fix the problem.
You've hit the nail on the head with my concerns re the Zoom classes. I've looked at some training on YouTube, I saw KikoPup recommended in this forum so have watched some of those. Currently the dog loves treats at home but if I try to attract her attention using them during a walk she has zero interest in them.

VonVix

KazDub wrote: »

She's a Collie crossed possibly with something like a lurcher, we don't know.
Whoever had her before has taught her to sit and wait for her harness to be put on and when being fed, so she's not completely without training. She may have been a rural dog though which could account for her reaction to the park environment
We'll have her 1 week tomorrow, so early days still.
She has a harness which clips across her back. A relative is singing the praises of something called a Sensitivity harness, but I'm not sure if that would fix the problem.
You've hit the nail on the head with my concerns re the Zoom classes. I've looked at some training on YouTube, I saw KikoPup recommended in this forum so have watched some of those. Currently the dog loves treats at home but if I try to attract her attention using them during a walk she has zero interest in them.

I'd recommend doing lots of little tidbits of training that's not related directly to the issue you're seeing when she's out and about, it'll help bond your dog with you and increase value in interaction between you. You probably find yourself saying and doing all sorts of things towards your dog, but your dog is completely ignoring your efforts, that's because what she's seeing is of a higher value to react to, than to pay attention to your cues. If you find yourself getting frustrated, take a break from training.

One thing I love to train with my dog is "look at me" rewarding for eye contact is super useful tool.

Past training means little unless the current owner is doing it too.

Definitely early days. There's also a new harness on the market called the Best Dog In Line harness, it is front clip, designed with science in mind rather than just thrown together. It's one of the best harnesses I've ever used. Nice that it's by an Irish owned company too.

She's good at home because the environment is predictable. Have you tried training in your back garden or front garden? Or even training with the front door open (on leash, of course!) it can help you control your environment a bit better. I'd try, if you can, avoid areas with lots of activity, your dog will be more successful if you can avoid these for now.

KazDub

I'll look for that harness, thanks.
I was going to try some of the training in the house and driveway, to remove the distraction of actually going for a walk. I'd seen mention of trying that on a video, so I'll definitely give that a go. Once we're outdoors she loses interest in me, so I need to build that up.
I think I'll stay away from the online training for now and see how far we can get with the suggested online videos and a new harness, and the indoors work.

cocker5

Firstly well done on giving her a new life and a new home!

Secondly don’t stress ... it’s very very early days .. we adopted an ex gun dog - springer in January 2020 who had never worn a collar and was terrified of the lead .. and then dreadful pulling ..

Ok bearing in mind this dog has just joined your home and everything will be new .. strange .. and she will take time to decompress and take it all in.. so you need to take it slowly .. otherwise you run the risk of flooding her ..

With regard to walking / lead training, you absolutely must start in your home, in the back garden - google Zak George loose lead training on YouTube.. once she had mastered it ur garden you then move to somewhere outside of the house .. ie an empty car park .. once she’s mastered it here , then a busier place. By starting her in a very busy place it’s completely overwhelming for her .. new home, new bed, new people .. new place it’s all too much too soon.

You need to understand a rescue can take months to settle in.. time and patience ...

It’s took a month of training in an empty car park before we moved to a busy place.. Now he walks really well on the lead.

KazDub

Thanks everyone for the really helpful advise. I really appreciate it. I'll focus on training her in the house and garden for now. I'll have a look through the YouTube recommendations. I think I'm probably putting unnecessary pressure on myself to 'fix' the issues quickly but will take all the good advice here and expect a more realistic time to help her calm down.
I'll have a look for a new harness too and see if that helps.

cocker5

KazDub wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the really helpful advise. I really appreciate it. I'll focus on training her in the house and garden for now. I'll have a look through the YouTube recommendations. I think I'm probably putting unnecessary pressure on myself to 'fix' the issues quickly but will take all the good advice here and expect a more realistic time to help her calm down.
I'll have a look for a new harness too and see if that helps.

Absolutely.. you are putting too much pressure on yourself and your dog.. honestly we did similar for the first 3/4 weeks and we had a trainer out from Wonderpaws to help us .. her advice ... SLOW DOWN and she told us we have unrealistic expectations.. as our last dog was honestly practically perfect in every way if I’m
Honest .. so we listened to her and slowed down, let cooper take it at his own pace .. and yes honestly it took a good id say 8 months for him to totally turn a corner .. and was it worth the wait .. 100%.. he’s an amazing boy .. and you’ll get there too.

Collies are super smart, slow lead training..
and teach her tricks .. not sure if ur on Facebook there’s an excellent canine enrichment page with brilliant ideas to train inside the home .. always keep in mind training builds a huge bond with you and your new dog!

Best of luck! And enjoy

joe40

If you don't mind I'm going to piggy back the thread with a similar query.

I have a 5 months old springer spaniel. Lead walking not too bad in the garden/driveway with treats but terrible in a wooded area we can go to within 5 k.
My question is should we still take her there and tolerate the pulling since it is her only other opportunitity for seeing other people and other dogs.
When she gets her nose down in the woods treats are of no interest.
So choice between allowing lead pulling or just walk her in the garden. Which should I do?

cocker5

joe40 wrote: »

If you don't mind I'm going to piggy back the thread with a similar query.

I have a 5 months old springer spaniel. Lead walking not too bad in the garden/driveway with treats but terrible in a wooded area we can go to within 5 k.
My question is should we still take her there and tolerate the pulling since it is her only other opportunitity for seeing other people and other dogs.
When she gets her nose down in the woods treats are of no interest.
So choice between allowing lead pulling or just walk her in the garden. Which should I do?

Ok for I suppose you have two options here .. in the wooden area use a retractable lead .. I know some people are death on these as some dog owners are stupid and let their dogs get tangled up or they run on peoples legs and create a burn mark .. but there are great if used correctly and responsibly like in a wooded area .. (not near a road for obvious reasons). Spaniels like to sniff and explore and if you don’t allow this she will be extremely frustrated and unhappy.. here is the one I used for my cocker:

https://petsrus.ie/product/flexi-giant-neon-tape-lead-8-meter/

It’s extra long .. so u both can have a walk in peace

If you allow pulling in the wooded area she will continue to do this on all walks .. trust me.

I have a rescue springer (cooper) since jan 2020 super clever dogs .. have you started to train her on recall?

With us we have cooper walking normally on roads .. we do give him sections for him to stop and sniff but it’s the same areas so it’s a routine - so we’re both happy on the walks .. then we do 5 off lead walks / hikes 5 times a week .. his recall is excellent and we have a GPS tracker on him (best invention ever) just in case.

joe40

cocker5 wrote: »

Ok for I suppose you have two options here .. in the wooden area use a retractable lead .. I know some people are death on these as some dog owners are stupid and let their dogs get tangled up or they run on peoples legs and create a burn mark .. but there are great if used correctly and responsibly like in a wooded area .. (not near a road for obvious reasons). Spaniels like to sniff and explore and if you don’t allow this she will be extremely frustrated and unhappy.. here is the one I used for my cocker:

https://petsrus.ie/product/flexi-giant-neon-tape-lead-8-meter/

It’s extra long .. so u both can have a walk in peace

If you allow pulling in the wooded area she will continue to do this on all walks .. trust me.

I have a rescue springer (cooper) since jan 2020 super clever dogs .. have you started to train her on recall?

With us we have cooper walking normally on roads .. we do give him sections for him to stop and sniff but it’s the same areas so it’s a routine - so we’re both happy on the walks .. then we do 5 off lead walks / hikes 5 times a week .. his recall is excellent and we have a GPS tracker on him (best invention ever) just in case.

Thanks for that. I have tried the long lead in the wooded area and the garden. She definitely loves the freedom to sniff and roam, I just can't seem to stop the pulling unless we're in the driveway with little distraction.
Her recall with voice is poor but I started a whistle a while back and so far it is working brilliant. I'm going slow with it. All the advice seems to be make sure she is given plenty of success with the recall. But so far 100% success on 20m line in the garden.

Does your dog have good lead walking now?

At 5 month old is normal for dog to still pull?

My other problem is lack of socialization opportunities. No one calling to the house or no other dogs visiting is a problem.

cocker5

joe40 wrote: »

Thanks for that. I have tried the long lead in the wooded area and the garden. She definitely loves the freedom to sniff and roam, I just can't seem to stop the pulling unless we're in the driveway with little distraction.
Her recall with voice is poor but I started a whistle a while back and so far it is working brilliant. I'm going slow with it. All the advice seems to be make sure she is given plenty of success with the recall. But so far 100% success on 20m line in the garden.

Does your dog have good lead walking now?

At 5 month old is normal for dog to still pull?

My other problem is lack of socialization opportunities. No one calling to the house or no other dogs visiting is a problem.

I’d say it’s normal for any dog to pull without training if I’m
Honest..

Can I ask you what techniques your using to address the pulling?

Best way to train is bring her to quiet place ie empty car park, once loose lead walking is mastered here, then bring her somewhere a little busier and repeat .. and then a busy place ..

My guy is a little different as when we got him he was approx 1 (were not sure exactly) and had never worn a collar and never been on a lead .. so he was terrified of everything .. a year on he’s a lot better..

With regard to socialisation .. what are u trying for this?
Is she just over excited? Or barking etc?
What is she doing?

Do you have friends with a dog?

Agree with u on the whistle recall training.. my guy has good voice recall but the whistle works everytime.

Ps .. any photos? Springers are amazing dogs

joe40

cocker5 wrote: »

I’d say it’s normal for any dog to pull without training if I’m
Honest..

Can I ask you what techniques your using to address the pulling?

Best way to train is bring her to quiet place ie empty car park, once loose lead walking is mastered here, then bring her somewhere a little busier and repeat .. and then a busy place ..

My guy is a little different as when we got him he was approx 1 (were not sure exactly) and had never worn a collar and never been on a lead .. so he was terrified of everything .. a year on he’s a lot better..

With regard to socialisation .. what are u trying for this?
Is she just over excited? Or barking etc?
What is she doing?

Do you have friends with a dog?

Agree with u on the whistle recall training.. my guy has good voice recall but the whistle works everytime.

Ps .. any photos? Springers are amazing dogs

That's basically what we are doing but also want to get her to see other people and other dogs.

She has just in the last week started to get a bit agitated with shadows for some reason, especially evening time. So just not sure if she is understimulated.
She gets plenty of attention but I would like to be taking her to beaches etc to get more opportunity to run off energy.

Currently restricted to garden (reasonable size) or lead walking. Nowhere within 5 k suitable for off lead, especially since I'm not sure what recall would be like in a new environment.

The frustrating thing is there are plenty of empty beaches etc around ( I live in Donegal) but they're just outside 5k limit.
Small gripe compared to what others are going through but still a nuisance.

Thanks for your replies.

cocker5

joe40 wrote: »

That's basically what we are doing but also want to get her to see other people and other dogs.

She has just in the last week started to get a bit agitated with shadows for some reason, especially evening time. So just not sure if she is understimulated.
She gets plenty of attention but I would like to be taking her to beaches etc to get more opportunity to run off energy.

Currently restricted to garden (reasonable size) or lead walking. Nowhere within 5 k suitable for off lead, especially since I'm not sure what recall would be like in a new environment.

The frustrating thing is there are plenty of empty beaches etc around ( I live in Donegal) but they're just outside 5k limit.
Small gripe compared to what others are going through but still a nuisance.

Thanks for your replies.

Ahh no I’m completely understand we’re very lucky we have numerous off lead walks in Wicklow mountains within our 5km.

Have you look into some enrichment ideas.. ie make her work for her food? As in you can pop her food in some dog toys so she has to use her brain.. will help tire her out.. there’s an excellent Facebook page called ‘canine enrichment’ if your on Facebook join it there is loads of cool stuff on here to keep her amused and tire her out mentally a little ..

Frozen stuffed kongs are good .. also frozen lick mats

Here are some cool toys to make her work for her food

https://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_toys_dog_training/intelligence_games

Hopefully in April things will open up a little more .. do you know of any local doggie day care facilities?

Also some vets (when restrictions ease) offer like puppy socialisation evenings so ask ur vet in a few months .. also there could be some puppy socialisation classes with trainers .. maybe email them and ask .. some may open up around Easter .. for outside events or something

joe40

cocker5 wrote: »

Ahh no I’m completely understand we’re very lucky we have numerous off lead walks in Wicklow mountains within our 5km.

Have you look into some enrichment ideas.. ie make her work for her food? As in you can pop her food in some dog toys so she has to use her brain.. will help tire her out.. there’s an excellent Facebook page called ‘canine enrichment’ if your on Facebook join it there is loads of cool stuff on here to keep her amused and tire her out mentally a little ..

Frozen stuffed kongs are good .. also frozen lick mats

Here are some cool toys to make her work for her food

https://www.zooplus.ie/shop/dogs/dog_toys_dog_training/intelligence_games

Hopefully in April things will open up a little more .. do you know of any local doggie day care facilities?

Also some vets (when restrictions ease) offer like puppy socialisation evenings so ask ur vet in a few months .. also there could be some puppy socialisation classes with trainers .. maybe email them and ask .. some may open up around Easter .. for outside events or something

Thanks I'll look into that.