Elder (Sambucus nigra)

Fichtl

Can someone tell me why Elder has such a negative reputation? I have heard from people many times about how they dislike it, but it's not explained why. I often hear of people trying to get rid of it. They talk of it like it's a weed.



I like the way it's so easy to propagate from hardwood cuttings, you can literally stick it in the ground to spread it and the flowers are beautiful. Also the birds seem to love it.


Is there some negative aspect of it that I'm missing?

Bill Hook

I love elder. Elderflower cordial in June, elderberry cordial in the autumn, and a bomb proof plant that is very low maintenance. I was given a purple variety as a gift which I stuck in one of the borders but I actually prefer the ordinary wild elder which grows in all the hedgerows around here.

The Continental Op

I hate its because its often a nasty scrappy looking plant in the garden. Not even that keen on the look of it for most of the year in the hedgerow, but great looking when in flower.

Don't know about Ireland but in the UK it was said that burning the wood brought the Devil into the house. Traditionally when kids were sent out to pick up dry sticks for kindling they were told not be bring back any poo-ity sticks, named because elder twigs smell of s.h.1.t when burnt. The logs also produce masses of smoke and next to no heat.

looksee

The Black Lace is a lovely shrub, one I am intending to get at some stage. Ordinary elder though is indeed a scruffy plant. I don't mind it in distant field hedgerow and I am keeping an eye on several to establish which is the best of them for fruit, the rest can be cut back, I won't get rid of them altogether though.

The Continental Op

looksee wrote: »

The Black Lace is a lovely shrub, one I am intending to get at some stage. Ordinary elder though is indeed a scruffy plant. I don't mind it in distant field hedgerow and I am keeping an eye on several to establish which is the best of them for fruit, the rest can be cut back, I won't get rid of them altogether though.

Hmmmm Do you want some cuttings? Not my area of the garden but I'll see if the wife will do some for you.

Dohvolle

Dohvolle wrote: »

It stinks.
It actually stinks. You can smell it before you see it. As for Elderberry as a drink of any sort, I'll pass thanks. Popular as a placebo by the health freaks.
Lots of growth with little substance during the year, and then in autumn you are left with large bare branches that fall at the first gust of wind.
I've cut mine and given the birds other options. Currently feeding from ivy berries.

Made elderberry syrup last year. Kids couldn't get enough of it.

I planted one in my garden

Fichtl

looksee wrote: »

The Black Lace is a lovely shrub, one I am intending to get at some stage. Ordinary elder though is indeed a scruffy plant.

Is there any difference other than the colour?

gozunda

Easy to grow, excellent for wildlife plus the flowers and fruit can be used in a variety of ways.

Its also fairly easy to prune into a decent looking shrub / small tree by cutting out any extra stems and branches. Good to plant in hedgerows with other native trees and shrubs.

Traditionally planted at intersections and boundaries where it was believed to protect against malevolent witchcraft

looksee

Fichtl wrote: »

Is there any difference other than the colour?

You would hardly know they are related! The Black Lace is a smaller shrub with lovely lacy delicate fronds of very dark purplish leaves and a froth of elderflower that sits on top looking gorgeous with the contrast!

looksee

The Continental Op wrote: »

Hmmmm Do you want some cuttings? Not my area of the garden but I'll see if the wife will do some for you.

Well, if you are offering!

foozzybear61

The Continental Op wrote: »

I hate its because its often a nasty scrappy looking plant in the garden. Not even that keen on the look of it for most of the year in the hedgerow, but great looking when in flower.

Don't know about Ireland but in the UK it was said that burning the wood brought the Devil into the house. Traditionally when kids were sent out to pick up dry sticks for kindling they were told not be bring back any poo-ity sticks, named because elder twigs smell of s.h.1.t when burnt. The logs also produce masses of smoke and next to no heat.

traditionally in Ireland it was believed to have been the tree that Judas hanged himself from after betraying Jesus for 30 pieces of silver..

The Continental Op

foozzybear61 wrote: »

traditionally in Ireland it was believed to have been the tree that Judas hanged himself from after betraying Jesus for 30 pieces of silver..

We have some imagination. Never seen one strong enough you could hang yourself from.

foozzybear61

The Continental Op wrote: »

We have some imagination. Never seen one strong enough you could hang yourself from.

Very true. I think it was just another folk tale , There is another bush in the middle east with a similar name that might have been confused with .


My mother never allowed us to bring elder into the house ,said it was unlucky

looksee

The Continental Op wrote: »

We have some imagination. Never seen one strong enough you could hang yourself from.

I was just going to reply the same thing! They fall to bits with great enthusiasm!

We were not allowed to bring flowering hawthorn into the house, or Queen Anne's Lace, which was locally called Mother-die. I don't think there was any issue with elder though, or if there was, the instructions hadn't reached our neck of the woods

Edit - apparently it was unlucky (England) and lots of other places too. Some very interesting stuff here https://www.encyclopedia.com/science/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/elder-tree

Fichtl

what about letting a rambling rose loose in a line of elder

The Continental Op

Fichtl wrote: »

what about letting a rambling rose loose in a line of elder

My wife grows clematis up them. But on the other hand she'll try and grow clematis up anything that grows over about 4ft tall

baaba maal

foozzybear61 wrote: »

traditionally in Ireland it was believed to have been the tree that Judas hanged himself from after betraying Jesus for 30 pieces of silver..

I much prefer the Mediterranean story of the connection with Jesus- the reason the plant smells badly is that it was the tree that Mary used to hang his nappies on after she washed them!

rje66

If anything then this one. But Black Lace is nice too

looksee

Yes, I like that, very striking.

I took some pieces off a wild one and am propagating it.