Council Complaints

Conversations 3

Hi,

A quick query, going for planning and been messed around by the council over a year at this stage, not replying to or even opening emails, not answering phone calls, passing queries to different people over a few months for it to end back with the first person and still not getting answers.

There has been a complete lack of competency and no one seems to be in control, from the top down to area planner's.

Who can I write to outlining the way it has been handled?
Who controls the planning department?

I've spoken to the head of planning and again get passed around, they seem to do what they want without anyone keeping them in line.

maestroamado

Conversations 3 wrote: »

Hi,

A quick query, going for planning and been messed around by the council over a year at this stage, not replying to or even opening emails, not answering phone calls, passing queries to different people over a few months for it to end back with the first person and still not getting answers.

There has been a complete lack of competency and no one seems to be in control, from the top down to area planner's.

Who can I write to outlining the way it has been handled?
Who controls the planning department?

I've spoken to the head of planning and again get passed around, they seem to do what they want without anyone keeping them in line.

Can i ask if you have submitted a planning application?

RandRuns

Conversations 3 wrote: »

Hi,

A quick query, going for planning and been messed around by the council over a year at this stage, not replying to or even opening emails, not answering phone calls, passing queries to different people over a few months for it to end back with the first person and still not getting answers.

There has been a complete lack of competency and no one seems to be in control, from the top down to area planner's.

Who can I write to outlining the way it has been handled?
Who controls the planning department?

I've spoken to the head of planning and again get passed around, they seem to do what they want without anyone keeping them in line.

Welcome to dealing with the council planning departments!

I wonder which council you are dealing with, as there are some planning depts. which are really good (Cork being an outstanding example), and some which are a nightmare (shall remain nameless for the moment).

I've found over many years dealing with them, that the only way to deal with the bad ones is extreme patience, and, if possible, to get one person in the dept. on your side - almost all of them have at least one good, competent person in there that is often as frustrated as you are by the incompetence. If you know a developer, builder, or architect that regularly deals with them, they can often have a quiet word. Unfortunately, I've never heard of an official complaint doing anything other than causing more grief in the long term - council employees have plenty of time to plot revenge.

Gumbo

Conversations 3 wrote: »

Hi,

A quick query, going for planning and been messed around by the council over a year at this stage, not replying to or even opening emails, not answering phone calls, passing queries to different people over a few months for it to end back with the first person and still not getting answers.

There has been a complete lack of competency and no one seems to be in control, from the top down to area planner's.

Who can I write to outlining the way it has been handled?
Who controls the planning department?

I've spoken to the head of planning and again get passed around, they seem to do what they want without anyone keeping them in line.

What’s the problem?
If your going for planning, what has taken a year?

RandRuns

RandRuns wrote: »

Welcome to dealing with the council planning departments!

I wonder which council you are dealing with, as there are some planning depts. which are really good (Cork being an outstanding example), and some which are a nightmare (shall remain nameless for the moment).

Cork City maybe but Cork County Council are nothing short of horrific. I deal with planning multiple depts quite frequently and I have never met an organisation who are consistently bad. One company I was had to send in the solicitors when staff and senior management basically gave up and refused to engage. There seemed to be zero repercussions for them to do their job. This was even after the ombudsman had been involved (who were also utterly useless.)

There are some goods ones though.

Lately I have seen people had to resort to social media to get an answer from the councils.

A one stop shop online planning system really needs to happen in Ireland. The days of printing and posting 84 pages in an envelope to be passed around an office is simply archaic.

RandRuns

kian163 wrote: »

Cork City maybe but Cork County Council are nothing short of horrific. I deal with planning multiple depts quite frequently and I have never met an organisation who are consistently bad. One company I was had to send in the solicitors when staff and senior management basically gave up and refused to engage. There seemed to be zero repercussions for them to do their job. This was even after the ombudsman had been involved (who were also utterly useless.)

There are some goods ones though.

Lately I have seen people had to resort to social media to get an answer from the councils.

A one stop shop online planning system really needs to happen in Ireland. The days of printing and posting 84 pages in an envelope to be passed around an office is simply archaic.

Yeah I should have specified, it was Cork City I was referring to. The county would be nowhere as good, though far from the worst I've encoutered.

Conversations 3

Planning application is in over a year.

Explained everything with architect at the pre planning and was told everything look fine, should be no problem.

It's been the complete opposite since.

The problem is with one area of the planning holding up everything, heritage, not answering emails or phone calls and been going on months.

It's not Cork.

Is it even worth complaining, as I'm sure it'll be a black mark against your name and they will remember when dealing with you in the future.

Gumbo

Conversations 3 wrote: »

Planning application is in over a year.

Explained everything with architect at the pre planning and was told everything look fine, should be no problem.

It's been the complete opposite since.

The problem is with one area of the planning holding up everything, heritage, not answering emails or phone calls and been going on months.

It's not Cork.

Is it even worth complaining, as I'm sure it'll be a black mark against your name and they will remember when dealing with you in the future.

What will the complaint achieve?
How is your planning still in progress when any AI requests need to be complied with within 6 months?

What exactly has occurred as it doesn't make sense ( I don't mean that in a smart way) maybe your Agent hasn't explained properly whats going on and in turn you havent explained it to us properly.

Heritage is not planning.
Obviously something on the heritage/protected structure/conservation side of things is an issue?

Penn

Conversations 3 wrote: »

Planning application is in over a year.

Explained everything with architect at the pre planning and was told everything look fine, should be no problem.

It's been the complete opposite since.

The problem is with one area of the planning holding up everything, heritage, not answering emails or phone calls and been going on months.

It's not Cork.

Is it even worth complaining, as I'm sure it'll be a black mark against your name and they will remember when dealing with you in the future.

The Council have specific timelines to make their decision when you've submitted your application or further information. Are you sure it's with the Council at this stage or has it gone to An Bord Pleanala? ABP are able to extend their own timelines for making a decision at their own discretion. The council aren't.

Edit: Also, if you have submitted items and it's currently still under review, you cannot contact the planners. You can only contact them if they've requested further information, but if you then submit that further information, you can no longer contact them, because your submission is under review.

Conversations 3

They said we wouldn't need to extend the time as they would contact us before we needed to issue an extension letter, another lie that didn't happen.

They have replied to the further information we sent in, then we responded again and they have basically been passing it from person to person since without responding with an actual answer.

Head planner passes it back to heritage who passed it to local area then it's back to head planner and they have said to contact heritage officer who won't respond at all

Gumbo

Conversations 3 wrote: »

They said we wouldn't need to extend the time as they would contact us before we needed to issue an extension letter, another lie that didn't happen.

They have replied to the further information we sent in, then we responded again and they have basically been passing it from person to person since without responding with an actual answer.

Head planner passes it back to heritage who passed it to local area then it's back to head planner and they have said to contact heritage officer who won't respond at all

They legally have to make a decision to the FI.
I would contact a local Councillor first and ask them to make enquiries as to why procedure is not been followed, if that is the case. We only know your side here.

sydthebeat

Conversations 3 wrote: »

They said we wouldn't need to extend the time as they would contact us before we needed to issue an extension letter, another lie that didn't happen.

They have replied to the further information we sent in, then we responded again and they have basically been passing it from person to person since without responding with an actual answer.

Head planner passes it back to heritage who passed it to local area then it's back to head planner and they have said to contact heritage officer who won't respond at all

if you feel youre being messed around... dont give them the time extension

Conversations 3

Councilor is involved, without him we would be in limbo for much longer.
He literally had to sit down in the heritage office and get them to open the email that was sent a month previous.

maestroamado

Conversations 3 wrote: »

Planning application is in over a year.

Explained everything with architect at the pre planning and was told everything look fine, should be no problem.

It's been the complete opposite since.

The problem is with one area of the planning holding up everything, heritage, not answering emails or phone calls and been going on months.

It's not Cork.

Is it even worth complaining, as I'm sure it'll be a black mark against your name and they will remember when dealing with you in the future.

I assume they just keep asking you for further information every couple of Months?
I am of the opinion that if it is over 2 Months since they last requested information they cannot refuse the application.
This is the way it used to be but it may have changed.
I know one guy who spent 5 years getting planning...

Conversations 3

maestroamado wrote: »

I assume they just keep asking you for further information every couple of Months?
I am of the opinion that if it is over 2 Months since they last requested information they cannot refuse the application.
This is the way it used to be but it may have changed.
I know one guy who spent 5 years getting planning...

We sent revised plans and just want a basic answer, it shouldn't take months upon months for a response.

Who oversees them or are they a law on to themselves?

muffler

maestroamado wrote: »

I assume they just keep asking you for further information every couple of Months?
I am of the opinion that if it is over 2 Months since they last requested information they cannot refuse the application.
This is the way it used to be but it may have changed.
I know one guy who spent 5 years getting planning...

So many things wrong with that post. There are statutory time frames that Councils have to abide by and if this case has been running for longer than 7 months approx. then the applicant is at fault or the council are in breach of the Planning & Development Regulations.

muffler

Conversations 3 wrote: »

Who oversees them or are they a law on to themselves?

To answer your question you should contact the Ombudsman's Office.

Just make sure (in conjunction with your architect/agent) that you have complied with all requests for further information.

Conversations 3

muffler wrote: »

To answer your question you should contact the Ombudsman's Office.

Just make sure (in conjunction with your architect/agent) that you have complied with all requests for further information.

Thanks, that's exactly what I wanted.

maestroamado

muffler wrote: »

So many things wrong with that post. There are statutory time frames that Councils have to abide by and if this case has been running for longer than 7 months approx. then the applicant is at fault or the council are in breach of the Planning & Development Regulations.

All i know a County Councillor told me some years ago what i stated when i was getting planning.
As i said it may have changed as Bord Planeala can do as they please...

sydthebeat

maestroamado wrote: »

All i know a County Councillor told me some years ago what i stated when i was getting planning.
As i said it may have changed as Bord Planeala can do as they please...

bord pleanala arent the planning authority, they are an appeals process.

the planning authority is the local council and they are statutorily bound to have decision out in a set amount of time.

maestroamado

sydthebeat wrote: »

bord pleanala arent the planning authority, they are an appeals process.

the planning authority is the local council and they are statutorily bound to have decision out in a set amount of time.

I know that as i have worked with both.
I also know about the set amount of time but it may have changed since i got planning...

sydthebeat

maestroamado wrote: »

I know that as i have worked with both.
I also know about the set amount of time but it may have changed since i got planning...

no it hasnt

since 2000 the planning authority has as set time frame to determine applications

ABP has as statutory timeframe, but have the power to extend if required.

Gumbo

maestroamado wrote: »

I know that as i have worked with both.
I also know about the set amount of time but it may have changed since i got planning...

Nothings changed since you got your Planning.

muffler

maestroamado wrote: »

I know that as i have worked with both.
I also know about the set amount of time but it may have changed since i got planning...

If you got planning in the last 20 years then nothing has changed.

However prior to that there was a time when the Council could request FI's multiple times and there was no time limit set on making a decision on FI's complied with. Ah, the good auld days

maestroamado

muffler wrote: »

If you got planning in the last 20 years then nothing has changed.

However prior to that there was a time when the Council could request FI's multiple times and there was no time limit set on making a decision on FI's complied with. Ah, the good auld days

Well i did get planning in the last 20 years and this is when i was told what i stated.
Ther circumstances were they asked for furthur information which they already had in my opinion.
I said this to a Councilor friend at the time and his advice was just do it even though he agreed it not necessary in his opinion "give them what they ask for" is what he said.
The planning came through in about 6 weeks approx.
It was this time he said if no decision made within 2 Month of request for FI, planning by default.
I was just making OP aware of my personal experience in the hope it may assist...

Gumbo

maestroamado wrote: »

Well i did get planning in the last 20 years and this is when i was told what i stated.
Ther circumstances were they asked for furthur information which they already had in my opinion.
I said this to a Councilor friend at the time and his advice was just do it even though he agreed it not necessary in his opinion "give them what they ask for" is what he said.
The planning came through in about 6 weeks approx.
It was this time he said if no decision made within 2 Month of request for FI, planning by default.
I was just making OP aware of my personal experience in the hope it may assist...

On receipt of the FI, the council make the decision within 4 weeks.
Sounds like the councillor was just speaking BS to be honest.

maestroamado

Gumbo wrote: »

On receipt of the FI, the council make the decision within 4 weeks.
Sounds like the councillor was just speaking BS to be honest.

As i said i just stated my experience to OP.
Just because the info was not correct does not mean BS for me.
He was a good person and a good Councillor and passed away about 30 years before his time, he also gave me good advice.
It seems he was not infallable like some on here??

Gumbo

maestroamado wrote: »

As i said i just stated my experience to OP.
Just because the info was not correct does not mean BS for me.
He was a good person and a good Councillor and passed away about 30 years before his time, he also gave me good advice.
It seems he was not infallable like some on here??

Apologies. I wouldn’t like to speak I’ll of the dead. I meant no disrespect.

It just appear that the info he gave you did not align with any legislation out there.