Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

Pay Cuts & Contracts

  • 20-02-2021 12:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 451 ✭✭ WhyTheFace


    Hi,

    I work for a company which has recently been taken over by new owners. The new owners are carrying out full review of costings, in particular salaries.

    I am a bit anxious that mine might be reviewed as it is one where KPIs were impacted by Covid.

    Can an employer impose a salary cut on an individual employee or must it be more universal across the company?

    Thanks


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭ Tow


    An employer cannot impose a salary cut. It must be agreed beforehand with the Employee(s).


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭ OMM 0000


    Yes but refusing to accept it may result in you being let go.

    Difficult situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭ dubrov


    OMM 0000 wrote:
    Yes but refusing to accept it may result in you being let go.

    OMM 0000 wrote:
    Difficult situation.

    The position would have to be made redundant. They can't hire someone else to do a similar job


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭ OMM 0000


    dubrov wrote: »
    The position would have to be made redundant. They can't hire someone else to do a similar job

    Trivial to get around this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭ dubrov


    OMM 0000 wrote:
    Trivial to get around this.

    How so?

    Renaming the position won't do it. You'd have to demonstrate that it was materially different and the OP couldn't perform the role


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,733 ✭✭✭ OMM 0000


    dubrov wrote: »
    You'd have to demonstrate that it was materially different and the OP couldn't perform the role

    To who? I'm not talking about theoreticals here, I'm talking about what happens in the real world. It's like how many phoenix companies act in bad faith, but there's almost no one enforcing the regulations.

    In reality bad faith redundancies go like this:

    * Person working as "Software Tester" refuses to take a pay cut and is made redundant.
    * A new role called "QA Engineer" is created and the job spec is reworded to make it seem different. It may have some of the Software Tester responsibilities, but now it also has a much greater focus on release management, working with the product managers, automation, and scripting. Perhaps it is worded to appear more junior or senior. It's not the same role anymore as far as a casual observer is concerned.
    * New person is hired, ends up doing most of the old role, although officially that's not their main responsibility.
    * Nothing happens to the company.

    I'm not defending this behaviour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭ dubrov


    OMM 0000 wrote: »
    To who? I'm not talking about theoreticals here, I'm talking about what happens in the real world. It's like how many phoenix companies act in bad faith, but there's almost no one enforcing the regulations.

    In reality bad faith redundancies go like this:

    * Person working as "Software Tester" refuses to take a pay cut and is made redundant.
    * A new role called "QA Engineer" is created and the job spec is reworded to make it seem different. It may have some of the Software Tester responsibilities, but now it also has a much greater focus on release management, working with the product managers, automation, and scripting. Perhaps it is worded to appear more junior or senior. It's not the same role anymore as far as a casual observer is concerned.
    * New person is hired, ends up doing most of the old role, although officially that's not their main responsibility.
    * Nothing happens to the company.

    I'm not defending this behaviour.

    It can go like that alright mostly as people don't know their rights or work in a small industry and are afraid of being blackmarked.

    It can also go like this

    * Person working as "Software Tester" refuses to take a pay cut and is made redundant.
    * A new role called "QA Engineer" is created and the job spec is reworded to make it seem different. It may have some of the Software Tester responsibilities, but now it also has a much greater focus on release management, working with the product managers, automation, and scripting. Perhaps it is worded to appear more junior or senior. It's not the same role anymore as far as a casual observer is concerned.
    * New person is hired, ends up doing most of the old role, although officially that's not their main responsibility.
    * Original employee gets wind of new role being similar to old one and initiates legal case against employer
    * Company makes large out of court settlement with original employee


  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dubrov wrote: »
    How so?

    Renaming the position won't do it. You'd have to demonstrate that it was materially different and the OP couldn't perform the role

    Happens all the time. The organisation I work for does it. You take a project manager, with twenty years experience, who earns €90K-€100K. The company makes him/her redundant, and they create two new 'Product Manager' positions, which they fill internally, from the pool of graduates, and they pay them €35K-€40K each. The two job roles are different, by definition, but the organisation just binds the project management responsibilities, timeline and budget management, into the responsibilities of the product managers. The company saves a few quid, and they get two project managers for the price of one. The chances of the original employee taking a case against the employer, in a small country like Ireland, are slim to none.


  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ starbaby2003


    dubrov wrote: »
    It can go like that alright mostly as people don't know their rights or work in a small industry and are afraid of being blackmarked.

    It can also go like this

    * Person working as "Software Tester" refuses to take a pay cut and is made redundant.
    * A new role called "QA Engineer" is created and the job spec is reworded to make it seem different. It may have some of the Software Tester responsibilities, but now it also has a much greater focus on release management, working with the product managers, automation, and scripting. Perhaps it is worded to appear more junior or senior. It's not the same role anymore as far as a casual observer is concerned.
    * New person is hired, ends up doing most of the old role, although officially that's not their main responsibility.
    * Original employee gets wind of new role being similar to old one and initiates legal case against employer
    * Company makes large out of court settlement with original employee

    How would you prove it, like really most roles are so open ended it’s almost impossible in the private sector to say the role is the same. If a company wants rid of you it is very easy for them to make a role disappear. I’ve seen it numerous times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ starbaby2003


    WhyTheFace wrote: »
    Hi,

    I work for a company which has recently been taken over by new owners. The new owners are carrying out full review of costings, in particular salaries.

    I am a bit anxious that mine might be reviewed as it is one where KPIs were impacted by Covid.

    Can an employer impose a salary cut on an individual employee or must it be more universal across the company?

    Thanks

    Hi Op, you can’t be held responsible for a KPI that is outside your control and covid definitely is. Once you are good at your job, don’t stress, they may move you to another section that is not impacted. They may just ride it out or they might ask you to take an hours or salary cut. They can only request this, they cannot force you. I know it’s hard but until you know what,if anything will happen it’s probably best to try and avoid speculation.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭ dubrov


    How would you prove it, like really most roles are so open ended it’s almost impossible in the private sector to say the role is the same. If a company wants rid of you it is very easy for them to make a role disappear. I’ve seen it numerous times.

    It depends on the role really and how much the employer is willing to lie.
    There are plenty of successful cases.


  • Registered Users Posts: 395 ✭✭ AnRothar


    dubrov wrote: »
    It depends on the role really and how much the employer is willing to lie.
    There are plenty of successful cases.
    Link?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭ dubrov




  • Registered Users Posts: 661 ✭✭✭ starbaby2003


    dubrov wrote: »

    To be fair, neither of those relate to a removal of a role on the back of a market downturn. The first one was because she was pregnant and the second one was because there was not clear due process.

    I think that if advocating the unfair dismissal route, you need to be honest and the majority of these fail and when they pass it is due to poor processes. I’m not saying this is right, in fact I don’t think it is, but it is the likely outcome.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,340 ✭✭✭ dubrov


    They both relate to a redundancy being used as a means to remove someone from a role. No clear due process just means they haven't proven a fair dismissal prices was followed. It probably applies to nearly all cases where the employer has lost.

    Of course if a company is clever enough they can cover their tracks. It would be a lot easier in a small company where the role is not a core one and only one person performs it.

    It's impossible to say the odds of success and you'd need an experienced solicitor in the area to advise based on the situation


Advertisement